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your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/13/2005 3:10:31 PM

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I would like to ask a question on aspects of humiliation , it is a subject that puzzles me because it seems to be a self defeating and ultimately a guarenteed destructive factor in a relationship unless the sub also receives satisfaction from being humiliated.

I have quizzed fellow subs about this quandry and have achieved no real insight that makes sense to me.To put it to you I have to make several pretty big assumptions and generalisations.

Assuming that both parties are working along the lines of developing something permanent, how can a dom prefer to totally discount or ignore previously discussed attitudes to try to humiliate, where all that does is rock the basis of the relationship.Trust ,confidence etc.

I CAN see the domination aspect, but what I find difficult to understand is that to my perfect match all this would be freely given.does that in itself ruin the experience for him ?

We all know the " i dont want a doormat" phrase but is that actually what IS wanted.

OK I am leaving myself wide open here to major criticism but I look for a Dom who has confidence in himself and his needs, attempts at belittleing my honestly held beliefs actually reduces his stature in my eyes, shakes my confidence in him and ultimately makes me back off and reconsider my trust in him.

I do hope that makes sense..? It is a subject that genuinely puzzles me.

I am not questioning the setting of tasks or challenges but as a sub i would expect to please and comply. To happily do as I'm asked in order to please him, rather than get the feeling that I could just switch off my brain and go through the motions.

I better leave it there it there. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

thanks
justrelaxd

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/13/2005 3:16:09 PM

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Some people both want a doormat, and want to be a doormat.

Even as it hurts, or stings, or whatever.... somewhere in them... they are getting what they want / need. Whether it's healthy or not...I've no idea. But it's what some people seek out, for whatever reason.

It's puzzled me for a while off and on also. I don't understand it, and it can diminish someone in my eyes too when the only way they can feel powerful is to destroy another. But, I'm also willing to accept, that destroying another, is not always the goal. There is, I think (on occasion) another dynamic at work there.... that I can't grasp.

So thank you.... I am looking forward to hearing other's thought's and comments.

I'll probably have some other idea later...but for now...sighs....I've nothing else to offer. *smiles*

Tempest's pet
jennifer

(in reply to justrelaxd)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/13/2005 3:22:05 PM

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This is something I posted awhile ago.

Part of it is BECAUSE of my academic background, I'm very smart and very well educated. I think a LOT, I work a LOT, I am a control freak, I have moderate OCD, I am the social planner for my group of friends.

Being an object means you don't have to think, you don't have to stress, you just have to BE that object. You are there, purely and passively, for service and use. There's no need for you to interpret anything, no need for you to react, only simply to BE there.

That's a pretty awesome state of being for me.

Another part, the shown off part, is because I am an exhibitionist, I get a huge charge out of people's energy when they enjoy looking and playing with me. They are giving ME lots of attention, they want to touch ME, they want to use ME for pleasure, I can provide them with a release, with a good time, a good memory.

The sexual usage part is just part of my universal sex fantasy life- it's just hot to be used, hot to be a hole to go in, do your thing and get out. I don't really know much about that other than what I've already stated. I can't tell you why it gets me so deep any more than I can tell you why bondage does.

Something most subs and slaves can understand- it takes away choice. You don't have to think, you don't get to say no, you are there to always say YES, an object, a trophy doesn't get to say stop or get to dictate how it is used.

I am somewhat materialistic in that I like to use my money and gifts to show people I care for them. It's a physical thing I can give to show I've been thinking of them and want to add to their lives. While I understand they don't NEED those things, it's a very powerful idea to me. So, to BE the object itself, to be given to someone else, has a distinct personal flavor to it.

You'll notice- all of these reasons are about ME, what I enjoy, what I get out of it.

The Owner will pass me around and use me in ways I don't necessarily enjoy directly. He will send me to people I don't have an affinity for, partly because he KNOWS I don't have an affinity for them. So I don't necessarily always love it, with anyone, anywhere. There are definitely circumstances in which I really hate it.

While I love attention, I am actually quite uncomfortable ASKING for attention, I am very uneasy when people actually look at me and say "Now, I'm going to give you all this attention, just for you, just to enjoy, and there's nothing you can do about it."

Part of it is because not too many people are actually really GOOD at giving me happy pleasure, part of it is that I've trained myself to adapt and become what the OTHER person needs for that session, which, if it's a good match, will also be what I need.

And part of it is just my innate shyness and discomfort with being a focal point of attention. I don't know what to do with it, I feel very exposed. Perhaps a paradox for someone who LOVES being exposed, but that's why I call humiliation a "burning."

So, the humiliation and objectification is a keen way for me to receive attention, which I love, while being passive about asking for it and simply being a pretty little butterfly that people are attracted to, rather than dealing with the harder ordeal for me of directly asking and directly being told to sit back and enjoy.

(in reply to justrelaxd)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/14/2005 1:25:59 AM

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Actually, humiliation scenes can be a wonderful method of positive reinforcement to a healthy D/s relationship when applied properly.

One of the most powerful scenes for a D/s couple can be humiliation. It is not the act of humiliation that makes them powerful, but the aftercare process. This is especially true when the emotions are involved. When a humiliation scene is backed by positive responses during aftercare, most submissives come to learn that in spite of the things they are expected to endure, they will still be loved, wanted, and desired when the scene is over.

Sometimes this will break down limits that are based on social baggage, bad experiences, or the "ick factor" once a submissive learns that he/she can be pleasing to her Dominant in ways that are contrary to everything in his/her experience. One of the quickest ways to break through limits of this nature is to find an activity that humiliates the submissive through their enjoyment of a taboo activity.

Example: Males tend to have a lot of social baggage concerning sexual activities with other men. A Domme who enjoys watching homosexual activity might begin with a minor humiliation like having her homophobic male submissive gagged with a dildo and make humiliating comments throughout a scene. During aftercare, positive reinforcement may unlock enough of his social based fear to endure more in future sessions.

By slowly adding pleasurable activities which conflict with his social homophobia, coupled with verbal humiliation, and followed each time by positive words of encouragement afterward, the male submissive becomes eager to do whatever is necessary to please his Mistress. Once he realizes that she is not only accepting of his pleasure in taboo activities, but encourages them, he may become driven to explore them simply to get the positive feedback from his Domme. Over time, a patient Domme may have a submissive male eager to be gang-banged by the local prison inmates for her viewing pleasure.

However, humiliation scenes can be disturbing and emotionally scar submissives (as well as Dominants) when they are not well thought out. They can reinforce whatever motives a submissive may have for a limit. The truely dangerous thing about humiliation scenes is that even when you do everything right, they can go horribly wrong. The human animal is a complex beast, and there are really no guidelines.

Even scening with someone for years will not keep a Dominant from accidentally triggering some forgotten childhood trauma, or stumbling on a shameful secret that has been kept from every lover since 1972. ("How was I supposed to know that she had been raped by a bowling team? All I said was "Lets see if I can pick up the spare" when I shoved that trophy up her ass... Honest Judge Judy, I didn't know!")

-SD-

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/14/2005 6:35:51 AM

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Some terriffic responses. :)

(in reply to SadistDave)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/14/2005 6:48:14 AM

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I've never belittled anyone out of a need to feel superior so I don't get this either. I would think that if you're constantly badgering your sub with verbal humiliation it could be destructive. But I HAVE on many occasion said things like "Man you're a dumbass!" to a girl when she does something dumb, but it's always in a joking/caring way and never meant like "You stupid little bitch!"....it generally results in laughter and a good time.

(in reply to JerryInTampa)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/14/2005 11:10:50 AM

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Thank you all for your thoughts so far.

Emeraldslave2 gave me food for thought about the attention aspect, a side I hadn't really considered.So thanks for that.

Sadistdave ,your comments made something really click into place when you commented on the importance of after care. and for a sub to still feel loved.

I think that aspect is the most crucial point in making this sort of play work for me. It rounds a scene, any scene off for me.

Humiliating or trying to belittle someone without the aftercare or any attention to the sub speaks to me more on the terms of a sadist/masochist match.

Wouldn't life be boring if we were all the same.
Please keep your thoughts coming they are very enlightening.

many thanks
Justrelaxd

(in reply to CitizenWolf)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/14/2005 11:49:06 AM

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SadisticDave had alot of good points.

Let me expound on one of the things I have learned about humiliation play.

In order to avoid damage to the mind when you do humiliation play you really have to know a fair ammount about the person you are working with. What are their core values? If you hit on a core value you are likely to trigger something you don't want to deal with.

Undirected humiliation play is all well and good if you are working in framiliar territory.
Riduculing about a known fault that has been established as a safe subject and such can be like flogging a well known back.

However, if you are going into less framiliar territory then a plan or direction or goal at least of the scene really needs to be established. I am working through humiliation towards this goal to break down the walls and bad habits of this person.
ie the person is a procrastinator and you are working on their time management skills.

Humiliation about their lateness for things or lack of progress towards the goals may be something that works. Focusing on the behaviour as opposed to the person helps maintain self esteam. When you are working towards the humiliation you also should take time to shore up the aspects of their core values.
" Late again I'm going to tie a clock around you neck and make you set the alarm adhead of time. You do these tyasks so well but your lateness makes the work you do less valuable, why do you insist on ruining all your good work by not being on time."

Praises value of their work (core value) breaks down their fault of being late.

Just another view of it

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to justrelaxd)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/14/2005 12:35:30 PM

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I'm pretty new on the scene, but I've thought a lot about whether I'm "into" humiliation. I've come to realize that there is a difference between verbal humiliation and being made to do humiliating things. I don't think my psyche could take much cruel verbal humiliation, but being put into humiliating positions or do those things that when they tell you, your eyes widen and you think, "But I could never ever do that..." are the kind of activities that are eventually fun to me. The ones that make you blush like mad and feel really stupid, but in the end, laugh uncontrollably about. Just a thought...

Sally

(in reply to Archer)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/14/2005 12:49:23 PM

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objectification/ cum bucket/ hole whore/ anonymous cunt...all have appeal to certain types of approaches....and as i speak, at times, with those who like to do this, i wonder why i suppose that i (as the submissive) will achieve well-being through humiliation. Humility, smallness and abdication are very appealing - who wants to be always in control? - but clarity and direction and focus are usually the result of a discipline session for me and for this i am grateful!

(in reply to justrelaxd)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/16/2005 8:32:02 AM

Fawne

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Hello, My former Master was big on humiliation. Some of my most personal fantasies do revolve around that topic.

Ok, for me and for instance. I actually like(well, mixed feelings..its the pull of contradictions.. guess i am a masochictic) golden showers. Why? It is a combination of my showing deep respect, worship for a man (in a committed relationship with love) his, uh, equiptment ( I am taking all he has to offer; the good and the bad) plus it is deeply humiliating and allows me to experience his dominance in a rare way.

After care and general respect are 100% necessary. Love me, dog me.....protect me and I will serve. See?

(in reply to trustingnow)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/16/2005 9:36:06 AM

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One of the underlying kinks of D/s dynamics is the act of or enjoying the act of doing something that is fundamentally "wrong"! Taking part in activites that are so against your traditional upbringing that it becomes a huge turn on. Humilating someone or being humilated is so against our grain that being able to share that deep, dark dirty side with someone you connect with is a pure power exchange and mind fuck. It can be even more of a sexual charge then the pyhsical because the mind is so much more fragile and requires a deeper level of trust.

I think for most of us this form of play can only happen with someone you have a deep and long standing connection with. The trick is humilatiion and objectification but letting them know that in the 'real world' you still consider them a human being and partner.

_____________________________

Has someone taken your faith
It's real, the pain you feel
The life, the love you die to heal
The hope that starts
The broken hearts
You trust, you must, confess

(in reply to justrelaxd)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/17/2005 2:30:03 PM

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It's interesting to see a couple people talk about verbal and somatic humiliation in such contrast. It does reenforce to me my preference for somatic-based humiliation with verbal components more than the other way around (though my girl is the opposite).

(in reply to unholyruler)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/17/2005 3:26:09 PM

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There are damn good reasons why some people like humiliation.

If you don't like it, that's fine too. Just be upfront about it, and look for someone that's compatible...

I guess I don't understand what the big deal is?

(in reply to justrelaxd)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/17/2005 3:49:02 PM

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wow...I've never been on someones block list....I guess there is a first for everything.

(in reply to Fawne)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/17/2005 4:48:42 PM

Fawne

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?

< Message edited by Fawne -- 9/22/2005 7:33:05 AM >

(in reply to thinkpad999)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/17/2005 5:46:47 PM

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There are some great general thoughts in here about humiliation play - but wasn't the OP a complaint about her Dom not doing hwat she wants?

I hve gone back and read her post three times now, but I don't read anything like, "Help me udnerstand humiliation play," just "I'm complaining because I told my Dom not to do humiliation play and he is doing it anyway."

Am I misreading the OP?

(in reply to Fawne)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/17/2005 5:49:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fawne

Ok, for me and for instance. I actually like(well, mixed feelings..its the pull of contradictions.. guess i am a masochictic) golden showers. Why? It is a combination of my showing deep respect, worship for a man (in a committed relationship with love) his, uh, equiptment ( I am taking all he has to offer; the good and the bad) plus it is deeply humiliating and allows me to experience his dominance in a rare way.

You articulated my humilaition groove perfectly - taking anything I give her, without distinction. Piss, sweat, my kisses or jizz - she is showing me she loves anything that comes from me.

(in reply to Fawne)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/17/2005 9:05:05 PM

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Humiliation sluts are very interesting people.

HOWEVER,I have noticed that many of them seem to have *issues* connected with doing it. It can be like walking in a minefield in the dark. Best not to,till the territory has been mapped,and most of the mines dug up and defused. Some you simply cannot-so you stay the hell away from those areas.

But once you do,there's a surprising degree of intimacy in the *acceptance* involved in these acts.

It's not all that easy to explain,you'd have to be there to know.

(in reply to justrelaxd)

RE: your thoughts on humiliation please - 7/17/2005 9:16:21 PM

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GOD DAME YOU HAVE NO IDEA I HAVE SERUSLY CALLED PEOPLE THE WRONG NAMES IN THE PASSED I WISH HUMILATION SLUTS CAME WITH MANULAS OR SOMETHING YOU KNOW LIKE GUIDES TO PORPER OPERATION

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gemeni

HOWEVER,I have noticed that many of them seem to have *issues* connected with doing it. It can be like walking in a minefield in the dark. Best not to,till the territory has been mapped,and most of the mines dug up and defused. Some you simply cannot-so you stay the hell away from those areas.

_____________________________

LRODANDMASTER TYPE LIKE DUMASS BUT HIM NO DUMASS

(in reply to Gemeni)

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