Using the phrase "authority or power exchange"

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Using the phrase "authority or power exchange" - 9/14/2007 6:59:23 AM

jaxnsax

Posts: 106
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Greetings
A small question that I wanted to pose to others here.

The phrase “power exchange” or “authority exchange”
I am not looking for detailed definitions of what it means to everyone but more of an explanation of what it means to those who use it in regards to ‘dynamic’ only. ( not during play, not during scenes )
I understand the concept of authority or power exchange; I use it myself when describing what I believe happens within a Master/slave/Dominant/submissive dynamic.
I understand that in the ‘exchange’, I am giving him/her the right of power or authority over me.
What has me running in circles though is the question “what is he/she exchanging back to me?” And how does it fit into an ongoing ( always present ) dynamic?
Most keep telling me that the Master/Dominant is giving me his/her responsibility over me. But, it just does not make sense when put that way.
So perhaps, someone can try and explain it to me.
How does the word ‘exchange’ work in your dynamic, and what exactly is being exchanged?

I wish you good humor and health on this day
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

Post #: 1

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:16:10 AM

Perplex

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at the risk of getting my foot shot off for stepping on the landmines that any "defintion" thread creates....lemme give you my opinion.

what the dom is giving you in exhcange for your giving him "power of authroity over you" is he/she is doing most of the real work of sex...the thinking/choosing/deciding...and getting it all right so it's a pleasant event for everybody and everybody should want to do it again, preferrably before leno. :)

sex is not about sucking, fucking, spanking, yanking, flogging and blogging about it afterwards, those are the things of sex, like your nose is a thing of your face, what sex is; beyond the easiest biological defintion, it is knowing when to touch, how to touch, when to not touch, when 1/4 inch REALLY makes a difference...

yes most times the sub is the one doing most of the "work" of sex, he/she is servicing the dom, but it is the dom who has orchastrated those things in such a way to <most times> make the sub the center of atteniton for the duration of the encounter. He/she might be the only one to achieve climax, but if you hold the opinion sex ends at climax then I can't really explain it.

you can think of it also as the relationship a soldier has with a general, yes the soldier is going to be out there to do and die, but it is the general who is directing that effort to make sure as many do as possible and as few die as possible.

you can think of it like a puppy learning to play fetch. yes the puppy is the one doing all the running getting the damned ball but it is the dom who is teaching the puppy she/he is safe bringing thigns back to the dom and that she/he is cared for by trusting the dom during play.

you can think of it like a glass of water. yes teh sub is the substance that gives hydration, but it is the dom who holds the thing together and keeps it from just being a puddle.

you can think of it like a set of metaphores, the words give the meaning to each phrase but it is the dom who gives that meaning greater and more focused scope

(in reply to jaxnsax)

Post #: 2

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:20:20 AM

jaxnsax

Posts: 106
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Greetings Perplex
LOL
Before I actually answer what you said, I want to make sure that I completely understand what you wrote.
From what I understand, you are stating that what the submissive or slave is getting in return is ‘not having to decide on anything’?
I think I am understanding you wrong, but I wanted to make sure I was clear first.
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

(in reply to Perplex)

Post #: 3

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:20:34 AM

BoiJen

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well your question is the exact reason I don't use the word "exchange". I use the terms "power dynamic" there is power within a structured dynamic. Who has that power is up to those invloved. But obviously in such situations it's much harder to go "what am I getting in this 'exhcange'?" as the word "exchange" is not used on purpose.

(in reply to Perplex)

Post #: 4

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:23:17 AM

jaxnsax

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Greetings BoiJen
The use of the phrase power dynamic does sound a bit more logical when used in regards to the M/s dynamic.
Can I ask you to elaborate please?
My curiosity is aroused lol.
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 5

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:29:34 AM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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To be fair here,

Dominants aren't receptors. Authority isn't swapped tit for tat mind you (yes, I said tit, stop giggling you pervs), but rather it's exchanged for (usually) guidence, direction, or expectations. Often there are other emotions and feelings involved as well; I don't feel comfortable dominating a woman if I don't feel I have anything to offer her intellectually for example. This doesn't mean I must be more intelligent than she is; indeed, I've engaged in power dynamics with a couple of women who I felt (at the risk of sounding like an intellectual snob here) weren't on the same plane as I was. Someone who cannot challenge me slightly, intellectually, isn't going to trigger a desire on my part to mentor; thus I cannot 'exchange' that mentorship for her obedience.

There may be other concepts in question as well; no few slaves seek a sense of physical protection (whether the dominant is a Marine or a cream puff), and every D/s dynamic I've been involved with included ensuring that her needs were met (mental, physical, emotional, sexual); that's a responsibility that I assume, to ensure that she has the things she needs to be a happy healthy person. This doesn't suggest she is incapable of providing those things for herself; an example often cited is diet. No few slaves simply eat poorly, because they don't take the time to cook. When in a D/s dynamic, they feel more obliged to provide regular meals for their owner/dominant; thus they sit to eat three healthy meals a day, instead of one greasebomb meal at Happy Burger.

After all, if you feel you are giving your all, 100% as a slave, wouldn't you feel something is wrong, if the dominant was giving nothing to the relationship in return?

Regards,

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to BoiJen)

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:31:53 AM

BoiJen

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I don't like the idea that responsibility is "given over" completely. It's just transformed. It looks different. I still (as a s-type) have the responsibility to manage my own actions and feelings in responce to Her's. I still have a responsibility TO Her, while She has picked up a certain level of responsibility FOR me. at the same time I still maintain my own responsibility for myself to a degree. As it's my choice to be here. Yes I have to make decisions. I have to make th decision on how and when to carry out a list of chores. Or to do something prior to Her asking me to do (ie cleaning the bathroom). There is a dynamic. An interaction where all parties are responsible for their chocies and held to that standard. The dynamic is much different than say...a vanilla dynamic. To emphasize this I use the terms "power dynamic" to emphasize that the primary basis of the dynamic is power. There is no exchange. I give up a certain level of personal power to Her. Period. She now has it and is free to do with it as She pleases. This is our agreement. Others have limitations (limits) on what can be done with that level of personal power that is surrendered or in some cases siezed or taken.

Lol...personally mine was taken from me in such small doses I never knew it was happening. I woke up and I just knew. It smacked me dead in the forehead as She held a pillow over my face ...I knew...all I wanted was to be HER boi. And the power that I thought was so easy to take back and be mine again was gone. Just gone...Her's to have for as long as She liked and I could not "take" it back. That's part of our dynamic.

So I hope this helps

(in reply to jaxnsax)

Post #: 7

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:37:54 AM

jaxnsax

Posts: 106
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Greetings BoiJen
Thank you for taking the time to explain more fully. Most, when I have posed this question to them, can only answer ‘I take responsibility’ for you.
When that particular answer was questioned, it usually ended with them saying ‘you just don’t understand’ or ‘you are too worried about semantics, just accept it for what it is’
LOL
My logical side refuses to ‘just accept it’.
I do like how you phrased it though, it makes much more sense in this way.
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 8

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:38:13 AM

Perplex

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Hey J.

Understand the entire Sub/dom thing is about a century out of date.
It became fashionable during victorian times (yes yes we know you can trace it back to throg the caveman but I'm speaking in more a middle class sorta way...when it became a thing of populur culture) when women were exposed to the aspects of sexualty but (very important but) it was demanded of them to turn away from it, be chaste, be good, "close your eyes and think of england" was the phrase mamma's gave daughters on how to endure the sexact...

now, there were girls who were naughty, who rather liked the idea of sex, but did not want to give up the thought of themselves a decent and proper...<more in a second> so they would secure <be secured> to a dom-figure who would "force" (defiine force as anything from give them chocolates to real forcible capitulation) into accepting their wicked side and embrace the darkness that already engulfed them but they were not strong enough to honestly accept within themselves.

so what might seem piffling in the 21st century about "do the thinking/deciding for them" when this fad began was very important, and to some people it still is. By giving yourself over to a dom you absolve yourself of the moral responsablity of any act you perform. (and if you find the phrase "responsability of any act you perform" objectionable you can substitue 'teach em how to do it safely/sanely".)

there are still a great % of educated modern women who view some sex acts as wrong, but as secretly fascinated with them...the same way there are many men who want to explore the taboos that are forbidden in the Locker-room mindset of society to them.... and teh dom takes that moral weight onto his/her shoulders to let the sub expierence it the first time...and not be ashamed, not let thier own self loathing keep them from enjoying something which has burned like a brand within them

I do understand in modern terms, (esp. if you are under 25) to conceive of something so screwed up as this victorian truth but it was true, still is true in some ways in everybody. I don't care how cool you are, there is some hidden demon in your mental closet that you hate and love, fear and desire.

(in reply to jaxnsax)

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:38:18 AM

CuriousLord

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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Note: Font, including in quotes, normalized.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax

What has me running in circles though is the question “what is he/she exchanging back to me?” And how does it fit into an ongoing ( always present ) dynamic

Nothing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax

Most keep telling me that the Master/Dominant is giving me his/her responsibility over me. But, it just does not make sense when put that way.

One might imagine going to a bank and taking out a loan. Only, this one don't actually get the money. Just the debt. He's giving the bank money. The bank's giving this one a debt and the responsbility that it has to collect that money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax

How does the word ‘exchange’ work in your dynamic, and what exactly is being exchanged?

Control's being exchanged, or, perhaps more suitingly, "given". Now there's a whole bit of modern philosophy (from Nietzich or whatever his name is- some German philosopher who likely appeals to people because he's "deep" to them but not too hard for them to understand) about how, in being possessed, the slave controls the master, but, meh.

To me, in a dynamic, control's just handed over. The Master accepts the responsibility along with it, yeah. (Such as, my slave needs permission to do.. well, a number of things she might have to to fulfill outside responsibilities. If I don't give her that permission, then I'm at fault for the problem.)

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 9/14/2007 7:39:10 AM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:41:36 AM

jaxnsax

Posts: 106
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Greetings Stephann

Authority isn't swapped tit for tat mind you but rather it's exchanged for (usually) guidence, direction, or expectations
Can I ask how you would employ this on an ongoing basis? How does one continually exchange guidance, direction and expectations?
Not picking on you lol, I really am curious.
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:51:09 AM

jaxnsax

Posts: 106
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Greetings CuriousLord
LOL. Thank you for the blunt honesty. That is the first answer I have seen that stated what I feel is closest to the truth in regards to the phrase.
Nothing.
J
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 12

RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 7:58:55 AM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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Sure,

Briefly, I'll point out I'm addressing Master/slave relationships from my own perspective and interests.

When I met my last slave, she had no idea about the lifestyle. I could tell she was submissive within minutes of talking to her, and our relationship was based on a dominant/submissive dynamic from that first kiss. I gave her a very general explaination of my interests on our first date, and what I expected from her. The following month consisted of explaining (what I believe) Dominance and submission was, what sadism and masochism was, and what it all meant to me. Many of the things she had been taught growing up were directly contrary to what she 'felt' were right; and it takes time to really look at ones self and say "Do I do the things I do because I want them in my life, or because I've been told my whole life I should." These aren't questions I could answer for her, obviously, but they were questions that she might not have answered for herself, had I not posed them to her.

As the relationship progresses, so do expectations. Gradually requiring small services, manners of speech, clothing expectations all became part of our dynamic. She could barely boil water when we met, so within six months I'd taught her two dozen recipes that I enjoyed (I'm a devoutely religious follower of the cult that worships 'home cookin.') I also believe in 'ramping up' a slave, on a learning curve she can swallow. You don't go from 'a' slave to 'my' slave overnight. And there's no small part of mutual growth involved as well; I had to learn her much better, to determine the best ways she could serve me.

That's scratching the surface; I can go more in depth if you like.

Stephan

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Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 8:02:00 AM

jaxnsax

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Greetings Stephann
Thank you for taking the time.
I like the mutual growth concept that you used in regards to ‘ongoing’.
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 8:09:10 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
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From: Portland, OR
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A thought worth reflection that I had regarding authority...

We invest a great deal of time and effort here on the message boards (possibly engaged in mental masturbation) trying to define, pidgeonhole, and analyze terms which are woefully inadequate for expressing the subtleties of relationships.

I understand that in French there are more than a dozen ways to say the word 'kiss.' I would liken the terms we use to describe our activities to be like trying to say 'kiss' to a French person. The underlying dynamics will 'speak' to us one way or the other, when the right person can trigger that reaction. G and I didn't stay up nights trying to define what we were and weren't; I didn't regularly sit and draw checks and balance sheets to determine what improvement was or wasn't needed. I think it was as satisfying and healthy as it was, because it grew organically and naturally.

Thus, it's worth keeping in mind that these sorts of distinctions are, at best, an interesting way to understand how another person thinks. Ron can probably say this much better, but there's no definitions within a dynamic nearly as succinct as deep, unspoken connections.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 8:11:36 AM

mbes

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In exchange for giving him the authority to tell me what he wants, I get the knowledge (I consider knowledge to be a form of power) of what it is that he finds pleasing. The power to please someone is strong, and I enjoy exercising it.
Thanks for the question, I've enjoyed thinking about it, and I'm sure it will open new doors for me.

(in reply to jaxnsax)

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 8:22:28 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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That's why I use the term "authority transfer"

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 8:24:55 AM

jaxnsax

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Greetings LuckyAlbatross
Authority transfer. I like that. J Almost as much as I do power dynamic.
The use of the word transfer makes SO MUCH MORE sense than exchange.
Thank you
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 8:46:29 AM

jaxnsax

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Greetings perplex
LOL, ok, I am really trying hard to understand how this would fit in with the phrase. I understand what you are saying about the Victorian era and it’s impact on slavery.
I just can not see the comparison when placed side by side in regards to the question asked.
/scratches head in confusion and goes back to reading what you wrote
jaxon

_____________________________

A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion.
~Chinese Proverb~

(in reply to Perplex)

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 9:05:59 AM

daddysprop247

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actually jaxnsax, i'm glad you presented this topic because i have yet to clearly understand the difference between the terms "authority transfer" and "power exchange"...sound like the same concepts to me. i've honestly never cared for the term "exchange" OR "transfer" as they both imply i had some power and am now giving it over to my Master. that was not the case at all, i did not come to my Master from a place of personal strength and power. also power exchange implies some sort of tit for tat relationship, which slavery certainly is not. i do like power dynamic, or absolute power dynamic, but honestly plain and simple M/s covers it pretty well for me. i made the choice to give myself to him....without conditions, without limits and boundaries. i felt i had chosen the right person, and felt confident making that final choice. and now i am his, for him to do with whatever he wills. my life's only significant purpose now is to serve and please him...again without conditions, limits and boundaries. no tit for tat, no exchange, just signing myself over to its rightful Owner.

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