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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 12:25:37 PM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		oops! wrong button
sorry for all my grammatical errors, folks

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/14/2007 12:45:17 PM >

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 12:55:59 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

While in my own circumstances, I don't think I *exchanged* anything, I DID have authority over myself. I had at the very least, the authority to choose *being owned*; belonging to him or *remaining unowned*; belonging to myself.

agirl



hi agirl....in the sense you are using it, yes i did have that authority. i could choose to be owned, or choose to remain unowned. i suppose when i think of "authority" as in authority transfer, it sounds like i had this power or control over myself or my life, as if i were this whole, strong, independent person, and then made a decision to give all that up and hand that power over to him. well in my case i didn't give up any power or control...i didn't give up anything really. i simply chose to be his, and from that point forward he took the helm of what had previously been an unmanned ship. does that make any sense at all? i'm struggling here...lol

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 1:05:41 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie


I'm his slave.  He is my Master.  Everything pretty much falls into place from there.


yes, it is so very simple and calm when you put it that way, is it not? Master and slave, Owner and owned. whenever people approach me and ask me those same questions...are you in a TPE or APT or whatever....i just shrug and say "i'm a slave." that's pretty much it in a nutshell.


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 1:32:06 PM   
teamnoir


Posts: 226
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: San Francisco Bay Area California
Status: offline 		D/s is a somewhat abused term. It stands for dominance and submission, but really, we tend to expand it to refer to any power play whatsoever.

"Power exchange" refers to a sort of play where one person grants another power over some things in the relationship. Reality being what it is, whether you like it or not, other things will be granted control back to the first. So the exchange is that you take control over different things and your partner also takes control over different things than you would in a power parity relationship.

Not all power play is about power exchange, though. In some cases, there is a naturally occurring power differential, (age, social standing, financial means, etc), and some people enjoy playing with these too. While many of these situations are illegal, there are still situations which are legal and there are people who will play with even the illegal ones.

(in reply to jaxnsax)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 1:51:48 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

While in my own circumstances, I don't think I *exchanged* anything, I DID have authority over myself. I had at the very least, the authority to choose *being owned*; belonging to him or *remaining unowned*; belonging to myself.

agirl





hi agirl....in the sense you are using it, yes i did have that authority. i could choose to be owned, or choose to remain unowned. i suppose when i think of "authority" as in authority transfer, it sounds like i had this power or control over myself or my life, as if i were this whole, strong, independent person, and then made a decision to give all that up and hand that power over to him. well in my case i didn't give up any power or control...i didn't give up anything really. i simply chose to be his, and from that point forward he took the helm of what had previously been an unmanned ship. does that make any sense at all? i'm struggling here...lol


Hi daddysprop,

Yes, everything you've said makes sense. I also relate to it.

It's mostly semantics......I recognise that I had the power to choose to belong, I had enough control over myself to be able to choose and I couldn't have chosen if I hadn't the authority to do so, however much of a pathetic case I may have been.

Using your ship analogy.....I was ON the ship; it wasn't unmanned, it just wasn't being steered.

agirl




< Message edited by agirl -- 9/14/2007 1:52:31 PM >

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 2:37:49 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't read the rest of the thread, so this may have already been mentioned.

We do not use the word exchange.  I am in an authority transfer relationship.  I have transferred all authority over my life to him.  Whatever authority he does not wish to exercise at this time he will delegate back to me, but at any time he can decide that he wants to exercise his authority in any area of my life.


Knight's Kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to jaxnsax)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 3:36:40 PM   
jaxnsax


Posts: 106
Status: offline
Greetings
I would really like to thank you all for your contributions here. I thought about it quite a bit today and have to agree that using the term transfer makes so much more sense when used in conjunction with a M/s relationship; or as others suggested dynamic.
I would agree with what most said here also in regards to the use of labels. I try not to use them, but sometimes, it just helps to clarify things if I can put a logical explanation to something, and labels actually help me to do that.
Ur2badored
You said that you are more fond of the phrase ‘consensual and sensual reciprocal relationship with a hierarchy dynamic or reciprocal needs fulfilled through a mutually agreed hierarchy dynamic” . Could you explain a bit more please?
Ownedgirlie:
Your statement of “I give him power and authority over me and in exchange he manages me, guides me, directs me” This I can understand in the use that exchange would work.
Thetammyjo
You said that even though you don’t personally use the word exchange; you also said that you are both equally vested in the authority dynamic. Would that not mean that you both equally exchange authority? Or am I missing the point of what you said lol?
CreativeDominant
You also mentioned ‘a reciprocal and hierarchal concept’ Can you explain how you apply this to your relationships also please?
I have never heard that before; and twice in the same day it has been mentioned lol. I am very curious now.
Daddysprop247
Thank you for explaining once again. I think I finally understand what you are saying now J
Teamnoir:
Oh lord… now another term lol… power parity LMAO
Just shoot me please lol.
Kyraofmists
Thank you. When I think of M/s relationships and what they entail, your description is what comes to mind first.
My issue was in trying to think about it too much lol. Perhaps I am interested in semantics too much L
Thank you all, once again
jaxon

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~Chinese Proverb~

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 3:50:44 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax


Greetings
Thetammyjo
You said that even though you don’t personally use the word exchange; you also said that you are both equally vested in the authority dynamic. Would that not mean that you both equally exchange authority? Or am I missing the point of what you said lol?
jaxon


I have authority over things that I wish to have authority over in Fox's life and in our life together. I have no desire nor do I think it realistic to believe I could have authority over everything because I am not a deity.

We are both equally vested in that my authority only functions because he and I recognize it. Should either one of us decide to no longer recognize it, it will cease to exist or one of us may get a visit from the cops because one of us will have crossed the consent line.

My authority over and from Fox stems from he and I, nothing else except maybe other members of a community around us who also recognize it. It is not like the authority I have over my students -- that authority I get from my employer, the university, and I hold it by doing my job.

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 9/14/2007 3:51:31 PM >

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to jaxnsax)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 3:56:36 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		When I was a kid, I was taught that whenever I had to make a decision to always talk it out with someone I respect.  For example, in junior high, I decided I didn't believe in god and wanted to quit going to church.  My parents were fine with that, but set a condition: I had to talk to the pastor.  I didn't have the guts to do that so I kept going to church, but I learned the implicit lesson.  Don't ever think you know so much that you can go it alone.

I've always thought of a D/s relationship in this way.  A D operates as my 'go to guy' when I need to talk something out, make a decision or am not sure what to do.  Unlike others posting, I never cede responsibility.  If I accept his advice and direction, its because I think its sound, but I still retain my responsibility.  So, I tend to think of a D in terms of influence...right now, my Master is my dominant (re: prevailing) influence having some impact on pretty much everything I do, even though he rarely tells me what to do--this, no matter how much I might want him to.  From this, I get a lot of security: there's someone out there who's taken an interest in me enough that they're willing to act as my 'go to guy' which means I'm not going it alone.  In acting as such, they end up with a lot of authority.  Following from this, they have power over me.

I wrestle with the exchange part also.  If theres an exchange at all, it always seems like its skewed in my favor.  I'm getting so very much, a value that can't be measured...it just blows away the logic of exchange which depends on equivalents and standards.


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(in reply to jaxnsax)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 6:14:59 PM   
PapiNsweet


Posts: 36
Joined: 10/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl


Using your ship analogy.....I was ON the ship; it wasn't unmanned, it just wasn't being steered.

agirl





hmm...you know, i like that. \

-prop

< Message edited by PapiNsweet -- 9/14/2007 6:15:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/14/2007 6:15:04 PM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax

Ur2badored
You said that you are more fond of the phrase ‘consensual and sensual reciprocal relationship with a hierarchy dynamic or reciprocal needs fulfilled through a mutually agreed hierarchy dynamic” . Could you explain a bit more please?


I just mean that, for me, that this type of relationship has to be mutually beneficially and each person has a rank and purpose.  I would consider the phrase "authority transfer" but I take things much too literally to agree to that.......as no one could realistically control every breathe I take, steps I take during the day, etc.  As the definition below describes, I do view the union as sacred (set apart for service and unique to individuals involved) which incorporates an agreed system of ranking between the two. (This is a system that is agreeable and consensual by all parties)  For me the union is somewhat traditional: a leader and subordinate for lack of a better term.(very much like my grandparents and parents)  Both are willing participants and both are mutually satisfied with their rank and purpose within this union.  The union is not forced, non consensual, or coerced in any manner but a union of yin and yang.   (perhaps somewhat negotiated or communicated in the intitial phase of the relationship)

Again, I believe if both parties are not consensual and benefited in some way, it is somewhat roleplaying or abuse depending upon the extremes.  It is just like any relationship when needs and desires are not met, it doesnt work or continues with tribulation. There is ideally an understanding  between this union in regards to heirarchy and desires met.



According to Wikipedia, A hierarchy (in Greek: Ἱεραρχία, derived from ἱερός — hieros, 'sacred', and ἄρχω — arkho, 'rule') is a system of ranking and organizing things or people, where each element of the system (except for the top element) is subordinate to a single other element.

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/14/2007 6:21:07 PM >

_____________________________

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/17/2007 7:22:45 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax
Greetings
I would really like to thank you all for your contributions here. I thought about it quite a bit today and have to agree that using the term transfer makes so much more sense when used in conjunction with a M/s relationship; or as others suggested dynamic.
I would agree with what most said here also in regards to the use of labels. I try not to use them, but sometimes, it just helps to clarify things if I can put a logical explanation to something, and labels actually help me to do that.

Ownedgirlie:
Your statement of “I give him power and authority over me and in exchange he manages me, guides me, directs me”
CreativeDominant
You also mentioned ‘a reciprocal and hierarchal concept’ Can you explain how you apply this to your relationships also please?
I have never heard that before; and twice in the same day it has been mentioned lol. I am very curious now.

My issue was in trying to think about it too much lol. Perhaps I am interested in semantics too much L
Thank you all, once again
jaxon


I think the phrase used above by owned girlie...in conjunction with what ur2badored wrote in this post when she said this...

I just mean that, for me, that this type of relationship has to be mutually beneficially and each person has a rank and purpose.  I would consider the phrase "authority transfer" but I take things much too literally to agree to that.......as no one could realistically control every breathe I take, steps I take during the day, etc.  As the definition below describes, I do view the union as sacred (set apart for service and unique to individuals involved) which incorporates an agreed system of ranking between the two. (This is a system that is agreeable and consensual by all parties)  For me the union is somewhat traditional: a leader and subordinate for lack of a better term.(very much like my grandparents and parents)  Both are willing participants and both are mutually satisfied with their rank and purpose within this union.  The union is not forced, non consensual, or coerced in any manner but a union of yin and yang.   (perhaps somewhat negotiated or communicated in the intitial phase of the relationship)

Again, I believe if both parties are not consensual and benefited in some way, it is somewhat roleplaying or abuse depending upon the extremes.  It is just like any relationship when needs and desires are not met, it doesnt work or continues with tribulation. There is ideally an understanding  between this union in regards to heirarchy and desires met.
According to Wikipedia, A hierarchy (in Greek: Ἱεραρχία, derived from ἱερός — hieros, 'sacred', and ἄρχω — arkho, 'rule') is a system of ranking and organizing things or people, where each element of the system (except for the top element) is subordinate to a single other element.

...aptly describe what I mean.  Also, for all the nice, eloquent, very descriptive words that come out during a negotiation, the one phrase that is not all that elegant but which does help to get the point across is this one..."There is room for one boss in the D/s relationship...and that is me".  Does that mean that all the negotiation is for naught?  No, despite the mistaken assumption by many that the phrase means exactly that;  what it means is that whatever areas they give over are those areas in which I will be boss and in those areas in which they retain control, I still expect to be listened to with the same civility and courtesy that they give me any other time just as I will listen to them as their friend and as their dominant.

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/17/2007 7:37:55 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax

Greetings
A small question that I wanted to pose to others here.
 
The phrase “power exchange” or “authority exchange”
I am not looking for detailed definitions of what it means to everyone but more of an explanation of what it means to those who use it in regards to ‘dynamic’ only. ( not during play, not during scenes )
I understand the concept of authority or power exchange; I use it myself when describing what I believe happens within a Master/slave/Dominant/submissive dynamic.
I understand that in the ‘exchange’, I am giving him/her the right of power or authority over me.
What has me running in circles though is the question “what is he/she exchanging back to me?” And how does it fit into an ongoing ( always present ) dynamic?
Most keep telling me that the Master/Dominant is giving me his/her responsibility over me. But, it just does not make sense when put that way.
So perhaps, someone can try and explain it to me.
How does the word ‘exchange’ work in your dynamic, and what exactly is being exchanged?
 
I wish you good humor and health on this day
jaxon


I define is as a bunch of insecure puffing up ,that spoils the fun.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/17/2007 7:54:04 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		"power exchange" or "authority transfer" mean the same to this slave as "conveyance of dominion or sovereignty".
 
it's merely a personal preference of which words in the language one is going to try to use to describe their dynamic, or an indication of just how much of a grammar Nazi one is going to be.  someone like thedark, of "Darcy.and.thedark", who has been gifted with synesthesia, could explain and experience the difference in much more vibrant details.

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RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/17/2007 8:12:19 AM   
mmb1


Posts: 304
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline 		This may be a little off topic, I apologize, but for me I think all have a choice as to what and how much the power exchange is, I would like to think of the term "partial" power exchange as acceptable also, at least for me.  That means to me, I choose to make certain decisions myself, but with his approval of course.  But, I think that everyone has different aspects of what they made need "total" power dynamics handed over, they can be personal, and all are different. So, I guess what I am trying to say, is the power dynamics are what work best for each couple.  And when I hear the word "exchange", I believe that it is a very big responsibility for a Dominant to take that on, and that is the exchange :)

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/17/2007 8:56:26 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		He gets control, which he prefers in a relationship. I get to give up control, which I prefer in a relationship with someone I can trust with the power I've given to them. What we both get is to be in a relationship that fulfills our needs.

For an example, at the local grocery store there much be 200 different half gallons of ice cream available, now many are common flavors made by multiple companies, so lets say there are only 80 different flavors to choose from. If my responsibility, I will look at all 80 names several times hoping to find something that will appeal to everyone in the house including the one who only wants chocolate, the one who doesn't want chocolate, the one who usually wants chocolate but doesn't this week, the one who likes fruit, the one who doesn't like chocolate and fruit mixed. Most of us have more than one preference. It can take me half an hour to finally pick an ice cream at which point it will be cookies and cream which nobody really loves but all tolerate. It takes him ten seconds to announce that he feels like chocolate marshmallow as a first choice and rocky road as a second. Him taking control in situations where I don't thrive, saves me stress and time.

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Using the phrase "authority or power exchange&... - 9/17/2007 9:00:49 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Popping in late, as usual.
I am along the lines of TammyJo's way of doing things. I have the authority I have decided to take. There are things I dont want to have to concern myself with, and other things that are outside my reach no mater how much I would like to control them. Hopeing to have a complete power exchange would be nothing but frusteration when there are many aspects beyond either of our abilities to control.  Angel has given me the authority to control what I se fit, and I let him what is still his own to worry about.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 57
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