RE: Heritage or Hate?

RE: Heritage or Hate? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 3:35:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan i'm black (see my name). my ancestors were slaves in this country. the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery. the confederate flag is as offensive to me as a black man as the swastika is to a jewish person. it's that simple. point-blank. the end. They were slaves or at least oppressed and traded by "blaakmeenn" in Africa too. Did you know that ? Does it matter ? I think everyone is aware of that fact, and no...it doesn't matter.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 3:36:57 PM)
Speaking as an outsider States Rights ie local political control IMO is very important, subject to the limits of what you have in the US and we in the UK dont but desperately need a written Constitution. Anyway, States Rights in the mid 50s/early 60s re surfaced due to honourable but totally misguided attempts to integrate the public educational educational system. Not a lot to do with slavery per se. Needless to say nothing much changed. eg I read fairly recently a black self appointed community spokesman saying that it would be better if young blacks were educated seperately. What a larf !

seeksfemslave -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 3:43:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan i'm black (see my name). my ancestors were slaves in this country. the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery. the confederate flag is as offensive to me as a black man as the swastika is to a jewish person. it's that simple. point-blank. the end. They were slaves or at least oppressed and traded by "blaakmeenn" in Africa too. Did you know that ? Does it matter ? I think everyone is aware of that fact, and no...it doesn't matter. Well if white men oppressing black men is almost as serious an offense as speeding on on empty road in the middle of the night why is black men oppressing black men that much less serious ? Beats me.

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 3:51:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Couldn't you just get a bottle of RC Cola with some peanuts in it and use that as a hood ornament to show your connection to the South? [:D] dammit everyone knows it is an rc cola and a moonpie...i bet yer a dang yankee huh?

HotFaerieMama -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 4:11:54 PM)
i know several people from different backgrounds and none of us find it offensive.. its a flag and its true meaning has gotten lost through the years and people try to make it out to be something it's not. i have dixie hanging up in my room most of the teachers at both high schools display the old state flag in their classrooms and both schools are largely made up of black students and no one considers it offensive or wrong hell i know alot of black people who liked the old state flag.. they hate the new one ( which is butt ugly) but no one's the same and everyone has their own opinons

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 4:31:30 PM)
Sing, sing a song Sing out loud Sing out strong Sing of good things, not bad Sing of happy, not sad. Sing, sing a song Make it simple To last your whole life long Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear Just sing, sing a song. Sing, sing a song Let the world sing along Sing of love there could be Sing for you and for me. Sing, sing a song Make it simple To last your whole life long Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear Just sing, sing a song. Deleted my post.....Decided to put in one of Karen Carpenter's finer works...God does she suck!!! Huge huge donkey dicks!!!..

domiguy -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 4:41:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan i'm black (see my name). my ancestors were slaves in this country. the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery. the confederate flag is as offensive to me as a black man as the swastika is to a jewish person. it's that simple. point-blank. the end. They were slaves or at least oppressed and traded by "blaakmeenn" in Africa too. Did you know that ? Does it matter ? I think everyone is aware of that fact, and no...it doesn't matter. Well if white men oppressing black men is almost as serious an offense as speeding on on empty road in the middle of the night why is black men oppressing black men that much less serious ? Beats me. During the genocide of the Indian wars did you know that Indian scouts from the almost all of the Indian tribes were used to help hunt down their own people? It would seem that this should lessen the sting a bit, eh? They were Jewish Nazi sympathisers...Well if they are going to assist the Nazis....Then why is anyone concerned about the Holocaust? In the case of black owning blacks...It was a very small percent of the population...Some did it exactly in the same manner as their white counterparts...Others purchased lost family members trying to reunite their families....There is even one story where a woman "bought" back her husband and then sold him after they got into a big fight. What point are you trying to make? It is a small percent of slaves that were owned by those of African decent...It seems an attempt to say..."Hey, it wasn't that big of a deal..If some of "them" were doing it as well."

Satyr6406 -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 5:14:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: Satyr6406 So, when a black person calls me "white boy" or says: "of course you're a racist. Look at the color of your skin!" What then? Should I NOT be offended? BULLSHIT!!! If it is not right for me to treat people a certain way, based upon the color of their skin (and it isn't) then, it shouldn't be right for them to do the same thing. Case closed. Peace and comfort, Michael How often does this really happen? I have never had anyone who was black ever refer to me as "whiteboy"....Or say anything like..."Look at the color of your skin, of course you are a rascist."....Maybe they were jealous because you are so dreamy?...Did you ever take that into consideration? Actually, being the only "white" guy for a couple of block, it happens quite often. My neighbors think it's cute, when they say: "Nah, he's one of the good white boys." Like that's a fucking compliment. I'm not saying it ruins my life. I am saying that it a small thing and I recognize it as such so, why is a small thing so much of an issue to other people? I repeat: because we are becoming a society of "professional victims" and whoever presents themselves as the most aggrieved appears to get to have their say. To take this kind of back to the original point: The "Civil" (huh? What?) War was actually about states' rights (one of them being slavery). It was a war against the federalization of our country. Now, I don't support slavery, in ANY form but, I have flown the "Stars and Bars" (along with the original, thirteen-starred flag of the United States) as a way of saying that I support the attempt to stop the federalization. So, I guess since it's a symbol, it depends on what it symbolizes to different people. Rap "music" is offensive to me. It paints "white" people and "police officers" in a horrible way and suggests that we are beneath contempt and worthy of death on site ["sight", even. That' what happens when you work with webSITES, all day] (Thank you, Ice-T, you "Cop Killa", you!). I think we should put an end to rap music. Ridiculous. Ain't it? Peace and comfort, Michael

ChicagoSwitchMal -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 5:34:00 PM)
With all due respect to black people the civil war was about alot more than slavery although yes, that was HUGE part of it. History's distillery has made it so that slavery was the only point. I'm not going to get into them here because whoever is interested can google search "the civil war - a southern perspective" and "the civil war - a northern perspective". But there was a lot of exploitation of southern resources by the north and fighting against it was something to be proud of.

feastie -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 5:40:34 PM)
A symbol, any symbol, only hurts you as much as you allow it. Symbols and language have a way of evolving into a whole different thing for later generations. Dixie, the Stars and Bars, the Rebel flag once meant something terrible to generations of people after the Civil War and after the 60's. It still does to many of people who are of an age to remember the 60's and stories passed from elders in their families about the Civil War. But as time marches forward, as it ruthlessly does, later generations don't carry this same feeling about this symbol. Same goes for the swastika and for symbols so old, we no longer recognize them. It's the way it should be. We can never let go of racisim or any other hateful thing if we continue to hold on to our symbols and teach our young to attach hate to them. Move forward, don't linger in what's past. If anything, the past should teach us what not to do and what not to be, and not be used to further our self-created human injustices.

dovie -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 5:42:05 PM)
not addressed to you darling domiguy, you happened to be the last poster. addressed to the board. these types of posts usually serve to bring out the best in people. the "best" is left up to interpretation. additionally, as we post, we paint a picture of ourselves based on how and what we write; a la Dorian Gray. many have already pointed out the evolved symbolism of the confederate/rebel flag and its use as a tool of oppression and hate. the swastika holds the same evolved symbolism as does a KKK uniform. while it is interesting to hear the contradictory views, i invite you to ask yourselves a question. would you, wearing a confederate/rebel flag or a KKK uniform walk into an all Black venue such as a Martin Luther King Day parade? would you, wearing a swastika or a KKK uniform walk into a Jewish synagogue or meeting? therein lies your answer. say what you will, behavior speaks to values and intentions; always. disclaimer: (1) assumption is made that reader has had some educational background in History. (2) human behavior being what it is, there will be one who will answer yes to the above questions...sigh* dream well, dovie

Blaakmaan -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 6:11:58 PM)
What it means to me? Everything is not relative! Some things mean what they mean! The Confederate flag is not just a piece of cloth (well, it is, but you know what I mean)! It's a SYMBOL. It's a symbol of the Confederacy! The Confederacy was a collection of states that attempted to secede from the Union, and the primary purpose of that attempted secession was to preserve the institution of slavery. Now, I don't pretend to know what the Confederate flag means to you, on your automobile or wherever, but I do know what it stands for as a historical fact! And, as I said, it represents those who fought, and died, to maintain slavery. That's a fact, not my belief! I don't mean for this reply to be harsh, just definitive...

Blaakmaan -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 6:33:13 PM)
OK, HotFaerieMama: Your profile says you are caucasian. What a surprise that you and your friends don't find the Confederate offensive! And, you really don't know what the black students think of that flag! You just think you know! If this were the 1950's, you'd probably be saying that your black students didn't have a problem with riding in the back of the bus. Most black people are not, as a rule, in the habit of being candid about their feelings with whites, especially on racial issues. Trust me!

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 6:38:18 PM)
I do not consider the confederate flag as a symbol of hate or badness. So, I see nothing wrong with it being used for general fashion. I am extremely proud of the confederacy, what it helped build in the long term for the country and the bravery of the people who were brave. I understand people turn symbols into what they want- but I'm sorry they didn't use it as a lesson in TOLERANCE and instead used it as a lesson in censorship.

Blaakmaan -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 6:40:05 PM)
OK, ChicagoSwitchMal. Let's take what you said as a given. If Lincoln hadn't won the election of 1860, sparking southern fears that slavery would be contained or even abolished, would the southern states have attempted to seceed because of "the exploitation of southern resources by the north"? I think not. And I don't know of any reputable historian who thinks so, either. And, anyway, whatever the truth of your point may be, the Confederate flag certainly doesn't stand for resistance to the exploitation of southern resources by the north, does it?

AquaticSub -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 6:47:33 PM)
For me, it is a symbol of a cause that people believed in enough to fight and die for - state's rights. While the issue of slavery helped bring the conflict to a bubble, even Lincoln was not fighting to free the slaves. He simply wanted to win the war and unite the country. He said as much when he said that if he could win the war by freeing all the slaves he would, and if he could win the war by freeing none of them he would. It is a flag. There are some good things associated with it and some bad. And there is no flag in this world that does not have some bad associated with it. Some people turned the Confederate flag into a symbol of hate, the same way the Nazis did the swastika. As far as slogans on shirts go... I would definately say there are worse things to wear. I'd much rather a daughter of mine wear a shirt with a rose and the petals made of Confederate flags than some slogan about how much of an easy lay she is.

Blaakmaan -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 6:53:22 PM)
Wow! What the hell is going on here? A symbol only hurts as much as you let it? That's the equivalent of "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me!" What bullshit! Everything that human beings do centers around symbols, from speech, to the red of a stop light, to the letters on a page, to the numbers we use to calculate. Symbols are the most powerful things that human beings have! The cross is a symbol, as is the Star of David, as is the Crescent, as are the flags of every nation. People around the world are killing and dying because of the symbols that you seem to assert are so powerless (except to the point that we give them power). One could just as easily argue that NOTHING has any power except the power you give it. While that might be an interesting philosophical argument, I wouldn't take that position when a bullet was coming my way! If you think a swastica is such a forgotten symbol (and I suppose you would say the same about the white hood and the burning cross), there are several neighborhoods (including mine) where I could suggest that you wear those symbols (or burn a cross) and find out just how much they have been forgotten...

Blaakmaan -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 6:59:28 PM)
As I understood it, the question that began this little debate was, is the Confederate flag offensive? Not, is it offensive to you! Because it's not offensive to you, doesn't mean it's not offensive! Now, I'm not, on the other hand, saying it's offensive simply because it's offensive to me (which it is). I'm saying it's offensive to LOTS of people! Therefore, it's offensive. You may not be offended by anything! But, that doesn't mean that nothing is offensive!

feastie -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 7:04:37 PM)
I live in a town where I have seen those hoods and crosses with my own two eyes, not so many years ago. A town that until recently, was all white. We're no longer all white. We are diverse. And we have let go of those symbols. We haven't seen them in years. Is it utopia? No, it's not. Yes, there are plenty of symbols, numbers and letters included, as well as the cross and the star of david which still have strong feelings attached to them. Some always will, as there are exceptions to every rule. But by carrying your torch, you're proliferating bias. You're giving it a crutch so it can continue. Each person is directly responsible for his own actions and reactions and even more, passing those forward. Make a choice that removes you and yours from the equation. Pay THAT forward. If it's to end, you have to choose to end it and you have to take the action to end it. If you continue to wallow in what was instead of what could be, then YOU are directly responsible for the continuation of hate. Not the other guy, not the white guy. You.

KaramelGoddess -> RE: Heritage or Hate? (9/18/2007 7:05:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan i'm black (see my name). my ancestors were slaves in this country. the confederate flag symbolizes those who fought and died to preserve the institution of slavery. the confederate flag is as offensive to me as a black man as the swastika is to a jewish person. it's that simple. point-blank. the end. They were slaves or at least oppressed and traded by "blaakmeenn" in Africa too. Did you know that ? Does it matter ? I think everyone is aware of that fact, and no...it doesn't matter. Well if white men oppressing black men is almost as serious an offense as speeding on on empty road in the middle of the night why is black men oppressing black men that much less serious ? Beats me. During the genocide of the Indian wars did you know that Indian scouts from the almost all of the Indian tribes were used to help hunt down their own people? It would seem that this should lessen the sting a bit, eh? They were Jewish Nazi sympathisers...Well if they are going to assist the Nazis....Then why is anyone concerned about the Holocaust? In the case of black owning blacks...It was a very small percent of the population...Some did it exactly in the same manner as their white counterparts...Others purchased lost family members trying to reunite their families....There is even one story where a woman "bought" back her husband and then sold him after they got into a big fight. What point are you trying to make? It is a small percent of slaves that were owned by those of African decent...It seems an attempt to say..."Hey, it wasn't that big of a deal..If some of "them" were doing it as well." To add to this... African slaves taken by African people were taken more than regularly along lines of kinship, repopulation, as war prisoners or agricultural workers. Some were criminals or indentured servants paying off a debt. Never were they subjected to loss of freedom due to their skin colour (as was the case in the Transatlantic slave trade) and most of the time they were welcomed into tribes and families as EQUALS. ~Kara - who taught history for 8 years...

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875