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D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love and devotion?


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D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love and d... - 9/19/2007 9:34:40 AM   
AAkasha


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When I hear some of the less kinky-focussed people describe what they seek in a dominant/submissive relationship, sometimes it just seems that they are ultimately seeking mutual, deep, true love and devotion - the same kind you find in a solid vanilla relationship.  But somehow, the perception is that a dominant/submissive relationship *is* that dynamic of complete devotion -- despite the reality that ANY relationship based on devotion is that way because of the feelings the two people have for each other - not because you slap a label on it that says dominant/submissive.

A submissive will not be completely devoted to a dominant without the foundation of a mutually satisfying relationship. There is no instant devotion.
A dominant will not make a submissive feel owned, cherished, taken care of, protected, and complete until there is a foundation of a mutually satisfying relationship. 

It's really just putting the cart before the horse when a person or couple believe that in order to feel that level of connection, they must find a D/s dynamic.  More dangerous is when a person attributes that level of devotion out of the gate instead of going through the natural steps of relationship and trust building.  ie, a couple just meet and because they have the label dominant/submissive, the submissive feels the instant glow of, "I am cherished! I am desired!  I am complete now!  I have found my special place, I am now OWNED!" -- when, in reality, they are going to be dumped in two days.

I see femdoms guilty of this as well. I wonder if some of them are women who were sick of being mistreated (cheated on, ignored, dumped) in vanilla relationships, so they perceive femdom relationships as one where the submissive, by his role, is devoted, will cherish her properly, will honor her, etc.  - when in reality, a submissive guy is just as likely to cheat, lie, flake or lose interest in her as a vanilla man.  What creates devotion, trust, and the desire to cherish is the intimate bond that happens between two people over a period of time, and it must be mutual -- and, sadly, it is based on chemistry, not defined roles.  It cannot be forced.

There's nothing wrong with roleplaying the concept of deep devotion and undying love; but to believe you can attribute it to a relationship based on role to me seems ridiculous and a recipe for heartache.  I am absolutely all for no-strings, lust-filled, in-your-face kinky exchanges between relative strangers (and those can be hot) within the boundaries of BDSM activities between two adults -- but things like "complete devotion" don't just happen out of the gate, and if anything, are harder to find in kinky circles than in vanilla ones.

Do you think many people look to the fantasy world of dominance/submission as a fast track to devotion?

Akasha


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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 9:53:57 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

It's really just putting the cart before the horse when a person or couple believe that in order to feel that level of connection, they must find a D/s dynamic.


I disagree with this.  For me, without the D/s dynamic, there can be no "connection", certainly none at a level deeper than platonic friendship.  The power exchange dynamic is intrinsic to my concept of self; it is who I am.  If the dynamic is ignored, then the other person is connecting to a pale immitation of me; she's missing a crucial part of the "real" me.

I will say, however, that a D/s dynamic alone is insufficient to obtain or sustain that connection.  Relationships require more than kink--much, much more.

quote:

More dangerous is when a person attributes that level of devotion out of the gate instead of going through the natural steps of relationship and trust building. ie, a couple just meet and because they have the label dominant/submissive, the submissive feels the instant glow of, "I am cherished! I am desired! I am complete now! I have found my special place, I am now OWNED!" -- when, in reality, they are going to be dumped in two days.


It's called a "crush" for a reason!





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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 9:57:03 AM   
SirCache


Posts: 159
Joined: 3/26/2005
Status: offline 		Some people do.  My own sister, in fact, thought that I simply went shopping at the local Subs-R-Us, picked up the model I wanted, took them home and had a brand new toy.  Getting through to her took awhile, but she finally accepted that while my style of relationship is different from hers, it is by no means without the same issues every other long-term relationship suffers.  As I talked to her about the length of time, trust and acceptance it takes to explore the limits a person has, she understood that in many ways my relationship is constantly engaging in discussion while hers had slowed to routine without discussion.

I like pushing boundaries in both myself and my partner.  That is no easy 'fast track' as far as I am concerned, save the anticipated one-night stands and the like.

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:03:20 AM   
KatyLied


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quote:

but things like "complete devotion" don't just happen out of the gate


They do when you put two dysfunctional  people together.
Or one dysfunctional person with one person who truly wants to believe.
Or two desperate people.
I'm sure they are many permutations that can make it "work". 


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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:05:08 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
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Status: offline 		The base relationship IS the dynamic.

Anything else you tack on is just window dressing.

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:07:03 AM   
CelticPrince


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Status: offline 		AAkasha,

you make some good points here, but, but so does CL just below.

CP

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:08:28 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Aakasha,

Here, put this collar on and I'll show you how serious I am about my answer

Seriously, brilliant observation, and spot on.

There is no fast track to devotion, intimacy, and trust.  Different people have different speeds with which they engage in this.  Usually love at first sight, means lust and chemistry.

I will point out a thought though; I usually know within about five minutes of talking to a woman if we would be compatible or not, relationship wise.  This understanding of compatibility (for me) is not a substitute for the actual trust and intimacy that usually takes months for me to develop with them.  In my younger days, I learned well that when I started dating someone I 'fell in love with' within a week, I really learned it was because I was more desperate to be in love, than I was interested in being in love with her.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this,

Stephan




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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:10:26 AM   
feelingrisky


Posts: 13
Joined: 6/30/2007
Status: offline 		These are the years of instant gratification.  Instant coffee, microwave food, high speed internet, and immediate connections.  Sex is casual.  People go from one date to committment in a heartbeat.  While it is fine to show you are into DS and to recognise it is part of who you are and therefore not be able to connect to someone fully without it.  It is just another instance of the "I WANT IT NOW!" society. 
I still remember dating.  Wow.. those were nice times. Getting to know someone before laying down with them... Getting to like them before saying "Yes, I can see myself with you for life."
*sigh*
Does anyone else miss kissing?


< Message edited by feelingrisky -- 9/19/2007 10:14:38 AM >

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:10:39 AM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Being in love with love is a bad thing.

It's hard to see others through the haze it creates.

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:31:45 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline 		i agree that the "type" of relationship guarantees nothing with regards to how the people behave. However, i tend to think that D/s, particularly submission, attracts more people who are prone to devoting themselves to their partner.

There are people who will never be anything but self-centered.

There are people who seek to belong to another, and serve them.

To me, there is an inherent disconnect between the two personality traits.

While i agree that it's foolish to assume that finding a submissive (or Dominant) will ensure a problem-free relationship (poof!), i wouldn't scoff at the idea that someone is more likely to find a devoted submissive than a devoted vanilla husband or wife.

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:39:25 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

However, i tend to think that D/s, particularly submission, attracts more people who are prone to devoting themselves to their partner.


Wonderful sentiment, but I have not observed this in real life.  In my experience, submissives are just as inclined to be narcissistic self-serving bitches as vanilla types.


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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:53:45 AM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

However, i tend to think that D/s, particularly submission, attracts more people who are prone to devoting themselves to their partner.


Wonderful sentiment, but I have not observed this in real life.  In my experience, submissives are just as inclined to be narcissistic self-serving bitches as vanilla types.



yes..........if not more so, in many cases.

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:55:38 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline 		The common element in all of your unsatisfying relationships...
is you



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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:57:45 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

The common element in all of your unsatisfying relationships...
is you





Same element in common with the satisfying ones.  So what?


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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 10:57:59 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

However, i tend to think that D/s, particularly submission, attracts more people who are prone to devoting themselves to their partner.


Wonderful sentiment, but I have not observed this in real life.  In my experience, submissives are just as inclined to be narcissistic self-serving bitches as vanilla types.



As I like to say... we ain't special.

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 11:19:49 AM   
Stephann


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From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile. - Fight Club

Stephan


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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 11:27:17 AM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		I definitely agree with the OP.  I make it very clear to any potential partner that I'm a woman first and a submissive second, and that a relationship can not be built around D/s.  My profile says I'm looking for all those things, but I'm certainly not looking for them on the first date - I put them there because that is my ultimate goal...I want to get married someday, I want to settle down, I want a sprout or two, and I want a man who wants the same.  Eventually.  Not tomorrow.

I do think that there are a lot of people who seek that instant devotion through D/s but I don't think it's just related to this website.  Check out match.com or a similar 'vanilla' site that is romance-based rather than sex-based...It's all about finding "the One" (I HATE that term) and trying to figure out in three dates if someone is engagement material.  I don't even think it's such a new thing really - my grandparents got married straight out of high school.  They weren't "soul mates" but just two people who got along quite well and had similar goals - so they wanted to work together to achieve them.  I think this uber-romanticism of looking for a soul mate is a consequence of the sexual revolution of the 60's and the cheesy movies of the 80's

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 11:37:22 AM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

The common element in all of your unsatisfying relationships...
is you





Same element in common with the satisfying ones.  So what?



Exactly.

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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 11:40:13 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I think people are people and I think, and I am sorry if this is too cold, that the romantic love which most of us search out including me is basically finding someone who fills our needs and desires the best. Whether some people come to it in a show me first or some come to it in a I have a feeling about this one it just the natural difference between two people go about their search to fill their needs and desires.

I believe the D/s dynamic is just what is in people who seek out and stay in this life. It is what makes us the most happy. I will be honest at least for me I feel it lies somewhere between a need and a desire. I think though the cart before the horse thing is again between differences between people and maybe the levels of dominance and submission in them and there place in life. If people are bound and determined to live a D/s life no matter if it is a want or a need then if they first go with D/s and hope to get the other things or if a person first wants all the other parts of a relationship and may or may not need the D/s is up to them.

Some people are mostly thinkers and some go totally on emotions and most are somewhere in between and for those who we differ in this scheme it usually causes us to scratch our heads and go that is not how to do it but in the end we are all playing darts trying to hit the bulls eye in some way.

To answer the question directly after this long mess I think people who come into D/s thinking it will enhance or be a fast track to mutual devotion are the same types of people who do this in “regular” life and no different or in a higher percentage. Some people will just focus on a goal and forget the journey.




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RE: D/s: The perceived "fast track" to love a... - 9/19/2007 11:43:30 AM   
MstrSkyWoIf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Aakasha,

Here, put this collar on and I'll show you how serious I am about my answer

Seriously, brilliant observation, and spot on.

There is no fast track to devotion, intimacy, and trust.  Different people have different speeds with which they engage in this.  Usually love at first sight, means lust and chemistry.

I will point out a thought though; I usually know within about five minutes of talking to a woman if we would be compatible or not, relationship wise.  This understanding of compatibility (for me) is not a substitute for the actual trust and intimacy that usually takes months for me to develop with them.  In my younger days, I learned well that when I started dating someone I 'fell in love with' within a week, I really learned it was because I was more desperate to be in love, than I was interested in being in love with her.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this,

Stephan




 
Aakasha, I must agree with Stephan here. (I have been doing that a lot lately Stephan) When I was younger I found myself in love with being in love. I was Dominant by nature but did not understand what that meant. As the years have passed and experience has grown so have I. Now I understand the difference in love and lust. 
 
I do not now fall in love quickly however I can tell in a very short time if a person I am speaking with is relationship material for me and if we would be compatible. I can make this decision based on all of my past experience I have had and knowing what questions to ask. To me each individual is unique and in being so has there own needs. If Thu conversation I can see they do not have the traits that have lead to failure in the past and if they have the traits that have been more rewarding. If I can see I will be able without changing me be the person they seek then and only then will I move forward.
 
I will also say this when I do make that connection there is nothing else like it. And if I chose to be with someone they never doubt that they are number 1 in my life
 
 
Edited to add.

I do see many here seeking instant devotion and most seem to be very insecure with who they are. They are the ones who as soon as you feel any spark start demanding your passwords and access to your account. They want you to post that you are taken ETC ETC ETC. The trouble with insecurity is in the end that insecurity will destroy any relationship you establish because no one wants to be with someone who is so insecure. Insecurity leads to me and my attitude. Any relationship even a D/s relationship must have some give and take that is why it is called a power exchange.

< Message edited by MstrSkyWoIf -- 9/19/2007 11:55:37 AM >

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this is just my opinion, I do not claim to be an expert on life. I am just Me, Love me or Hate me I really don't care. I am the culmination of my life's experiences. I am an ever changing block of clay molded by life's experiences on a daily basis.

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