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Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 12:10:58 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I had been thinking about writing this topic all morning but was having a difficult time how to word it. I also would like to point out AAkasha referred to this a little in her “fast track” post.

There is almost always constant thread or two on people who are in this life or trying to get into this life who both male and female and dominant and submissive who want a power exchange life but do not care for any of the kink or other rules and rituals. Whether it is a dominant who downplays all the kinks and toys as not them or just not really needed at all in this life or a submissive not into kink or having intention to drastically change their life but wants a take charge type. When I was looking in the personal side I would often hear it as being a “natural” life. In my mind and I fear in a very snobbish way, I think this to be dominants who just want to be spoiled without complaint without any work on their end and submissives just wanting a leader/take charge personality who will magically read their minds and it may border on this life it really does not have much to do about this life.

Part of me wants to always write these type of people are not in our life because this natural thing happens naturally and this life is because we do actually strive and need the kinks for discipline and the physical manifestations to re-enforce the dynamic and create the proper atmosphere in order for both the dominant and submissive to truly live and enjoy the level we are seeking out besides the enjoyment of the kinks separately.

I guess my question is do you think there is a significant difference between looking to be spoiled or be led in a relationship and a power exchange relationship that the kinks are vital tools and not just for fun. If so do you think that we as a group (I know very lame) sometimes downplay the connection of the kinks as tools so we do not shut people out of our tent?

I always feel we tend to rip submissives that either seems to definitely reject the kinks along with wanting to alter their life for another but then we also sometimes fall over backwards accepting dominants who expect to be spoiled without expecting to give anything to a submissive in order to get a high level of being spoiled.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 12:24:12 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		We really fit into this category. There's zero interest in me crawling around the house nekkid going "May I please worship your boots, oh great and powerful one".

He doesn't need to load me down with tons of rules and regulations to feel in control. And of the things he does make rules on, they are as much for my benefit as for his. Frequently the purpose is to make the relationship stronger rather than benefit just one of us.

But we have zero interest in s & m. We like kinky sex if you call bondage and spanking kinky. Basically all either of us seeks is a compatible partner who cares about each other. He doesn't punish me for not getting the ironing done. He asks me to do stuff rather than barking out orders.

We're as close to vanilla as you can get. He takes the lead because he's more comfortable taking the lead, I follow because I'm more comfortable following. But he doesn't think he knows everything, he asks for my input, asks for help if he can't figure out a problem. And if the two of us working together can't figure something out, then it's time to outsource it; therapist, physician, accountant, lawyer.

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 12:40:28 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		I'm one of those people who has zero interest in kink.  Dildos bore me, vibes are fun but not terribly kinky, a whip is something for punishment not pleasure and thus something I avoid, and I don't even want to get into fisting, dilation, watersports, or needles.

Ugh.

I'm interested in D/s.  I'm not part of the "BDSM lifestyle" because I am not into BDSM.  I am part of the D/s lifestyle which is a subset of the BDSM lifestyle.  I don't want someone who will magically read my mind, I simply want someone who will take what he wants from me.  And I want someone who wants things similar to what I want - BDSM is not a replacement for compatibility.

I don't see this as a take it all or leave it all choice - I prefer my fetishes a la carte.  Take what I like, ignore the rest.  Fortunately for me, not everyone into D/s is extremely kinky - those are the men I am interested in, and they are interested in me because they would be bored with a girl who just wanted to get whipped for her enjoyment.  What good is a whip if the other person begs for it?

I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't want to drastically change her life" but I consider my life in a serious relationship to be far different from my single life.  I have someone to answer to.  My nurturing side comes out, and I make a point to make sure the other person is happy.  No I'm not going to magically enjoy being flogged or fisted just because I love a man - but I would be more open to things that are just on the outskirts of my limits.  Love can only go so far.  Anal sex? Yeah I'll do it if I love you.  Spreading me with a speculum and trying to fit a fist in there? Yeah no find some slut who's already halfway stretched to that point - we are NOT compatible.

Once again I'm going to emphasize that I do not consider myself a "BDSM lifestyler" but rather a woman who needs a man to assert his will over mine - by force.  However I still need compatibility...I couldn't date a man who wanted to assert his dominance by sharing me any more than I could date an anarcho-communist who wanted to throw rocks through a Starbucks window.

I see your point, but there are so many shades of grey between "vanilla" and "anything goes uber-bdsm-lifestyle-god" that to demand someone choose one or the other will be a lot more confusing than just letting people find out who they are naturally.

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 12:53:35 PM   
Honsoku


Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline 		Yes there is a difference. Though to address an earlier part, one does not have to engage in any typically "kinky" behavior for there to be a power exchange relationship (unless you define the power exchange itself as kink). The toys are just that, toys. It is the perception of them, the meaning that gets attached, that determines their value as tools.

I do think that at least culturally we might downplay the connection as the term BDSM tends to be used as a catchall for fetish.

I haven't been watching these forums long enough to say much about unequal treatment of submissives vs. dominants, though wouldn't that represent a power discrepancy? Isn't a dom/me's apparent power greater the more they can get in relation to what they give? The ultimate power exchange would be the Dom/me being spoiled without needing to do anything (not that this is reasonable, realistic, etc), while the minimum power exchange would involve the submissive not willing to alter their life in anyway. I would expect unequal treatment and that difference to stem from the "spoiled" dom/me looking for one form of complete exchange, and the unmalleable submissive looking a power exchange in name only.

Honsoku

< Message edited by Honsoku -- 9/19/2007 12:58:26 PM >

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 1:00:07 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

I had been thinking about writing this topic all morning but was having a difficult time how to word it. I also would like to point out AAkasha referred to this a little in her “fast track” post.

There is almost always constant thread or two on people who are in this life or trying to get into this life who both male and female and dominant and submissive who want a power exchange life but do not care for any of the kink or other rules and rituals. Whether it is a dominant who downplays all the kinks and toys as not them or just not really needed at all in this life or a submissive not into kink or having intention to drastically change their life but wants a take charge type. When I was looking in the personal side I would often hear it as being a “natural” life. In my mind and I fear in a very snobbish way, I think this to be dominants who just want to be spoiled without complaint without any work on their end and submissives just wanting a leader/take charge personality who will magically read their minds and it may border on this life it really does not have much to do about this life.

Part of me wants to always write these type of people are not in our life because this natural thing happens naturally and this life is because we do actually strive and need the kinks for discipline and the physical manifestations to re-enforce the dynamic and create the proper atmosphere in order for both the dominant and submissive to truly live and enjoy the level we are seeking out besides the enjoyment of the kinks separately.

I guess my question is do you think there is a significant difference between looking to be spoiled or be led in a relationship and a power exchange relationship that the kinks are vital tools and not just for fun. If so do you think that we as a group (I know very lame) sometimes downplay the connection of the kinks as tools so we do not shut people out of our tent?

I always feel we tend to rip submissives that either seems to definitely reject the kinks along with wanting to alter their life for another but then we also sometimes fall over backwards accepting dominants who expect to be spoiled without expecting to give anything to a submissive in order to get a high level of being spoiled.



Authority can exist without twisty sex.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 1:41:14 PM   
MstrSkyWoIf


Posts: 238
Joined: 10/26/2005
Status: offline 		Your point is well taken but I must say just as there are many people there are many levels to the lifestyle. What may work for one may not work for another. We are ever evolving creatures and in being such we are ever expanding our likes and needs. If you put everyone on a box and say hell if you are not this you are not that... Just wont work. I feel you are dominant by nature and upbringing It can not be learned for a book it is either who you are or not. Same goes for a submissive it is like breathing it is just a part of you. We all go around using words like wannabe and wanker to describe people in the lifestyle. Most times it is people who have read a book and thought wow I would like that to have a woman (or Man) crawled to me and do everything I say. The are not dominant in there soul but because they read a book or see a movie the WANNABE.

To address the issue of do you need the kink to be in the lifestyle? I would say no kink has nothing to do with true power exchange.  Anyone can act dominant and flog some one. Anyone can act submissive and crawl on the floor. But to be either of these in the lifestyle you must be it in your soul and just like breathing you can not live without the exchange of Power in the relationship. I have seen it many times and without the true power exchange the relationship will Die. A true submissive can not be happy with a non Naturally Dominant Dom anymore then a true Dominant can never be happy with a non submissive in her soul sub/slave.

Do I enjoy the kinky side of the lifestyle? Yes very much so. Do I feel the kink is what makes me Dominant ?  NO not all. I am dominant because it is who I am in my soul. I am a natural leader and problem solver, a delegated if you will no matter what I am doing I always seem to become the leader of the situation at had because it is who I am. Do I have a soft loving side? Yes I do and I am dam proud of it.

_____________________________

this is just my opinion, I do not claim to be an expert on life. I am just Me, Love me or Hate me I really don't care. I am the culmination of my life's experiences. I am an ever changing block of clay molded by life's experiences on a daily basis.

(in reply to RRafe)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 1:45:29 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

There is almost always constant thread or two on people who are in this life or trying to get into this life who both male and female and dominant and submissive who want a power exchange life but do not care for any of the kink or other rules and rituals. Whether it is a dominant who downplays all the kinks and toys as not them or just not really needed at all in this life or a submissive not into kink or having intention to drastically change their life but wants a take charge type. When I was looking in the personal side I would often hear it as being a “natural” life. In my mind and I fear in a very snobbish way, I think this to be dominants who just want to be spoiled without complaint without any work on their end and submissives just wanting a leader/take charge personality who will magically read their minds and it may border on this life it really does not have much to do about this life.


I think you're oversimplifying.  Power exchange may be facilitated by kink, but if it depends on kink it's not going to last.  Kink is just too small to be the foundation of a relationship.

People are working at a relationship if they communicate, if they share experience and each other.  Any generalizations that go beyond that are on very thin ice, in my opinion.


_____________________________



(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 1:55:01 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		I see this lifestyle as a combination of sadomasochism and either D/s, M/s, or top/bottom-ing.  Like the people you're writting about, I'm not into the sadomasochism part of this lifestyle.  I happen to be pretty much just M/s.

The rituals- dressing up in leather or so- also have no appeal to me.  I never feel like I need a reminder that I'm in control, nor are the roles part-time or prone to exceptions.

To answer your question, I don't think everyone's that concerned with those "tools".  So it's not always so much downplaying as much as that a significant population probably just isn't that concerned with them.  To be honest.. I sometimes wonder why people feel like beatting someone puts them into control.

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 2:12:59 PM   
xoxi


Posts: 1066
Status: offline 		One thing I would like to add - a quick analogy.

There are plenty of people who are scientists.  However, some are chemists, some are biologists, some are physicists.  There are some people such as organic chemists who have a foundation in more than one discipline, and some who are so specialized that they can't even be called biologists - they are strictly botanists.  Or strictly quantum physicists rather than just physicists.

But they all fall under the umbrella of 'scientists' the same way everyone who is into kink, D/s, SM, bondage, or a combination of more than one all fall under the umbrella of BDSM.  Expecting a person who identifies solely with power exchange and D/s to be into SM just because they are under the umbrella of BDSM-practitioners makes as much sense as expecting a botanist to write his dissertation on Einstein's theories.  A person *can* be interested in more than one field, but that doesn't mean they *have* to.

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 2:17:38 PM   
wilfulcontrol


Posts: 20
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

A person *can* be interested in more than one field, but that doesn't mean they *have* to.



I dated a girl in high school who told me "I like to be told what to do."  The sex was as vanilla as ice cream, but the relationship had a pretty strong PE dynamic.  The more I think about it, my past relationships which had the strongest D/s dynamic were some of the least kinky I had.

< Message edited by wilfulcontrol -- 9/19/2007 2:21:19 PM >

_____________________________

"In the darkest hole you'ld be well advised not to plan my funeral before the body dies"

(in reply to xoxi)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 2:17:48 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		Thank you for the replies they have been interesting.

Let me clarify a little bit as I was not saying without kink there is no power exchange relationship and I certainly am not equating a power exchange relationship to being on my knees or dressing up. I also do not think if you have kinky sex that makes it a power exchange relationship as well.

What I mean is power exchange means to most some level in some area(s) where you do what the other person wants. The people I were addressing would be who are dominants who WANT a significant power exchange level in terms of being able to order and have a person view them as the center of the universe at a high level without doing things that are discipline/kinky that get a person like me to serve on the high level.

I think what MstrSkyWolf wrote was my intention. I am not talking about serving a person out of love and natural traits of a take charge/dominant and a care for because I love my dominant type life. I truly get that. I am talking about people who go looking for the results of a more severe power exchange relationship but do not want to put in the effort from whatever side not that people cannot or do not have great power exchange type relationships without kink.

Because it is human nature and get a person with dominant traits with a person with submissive traits you will observe things that we more formalize in this life for example a woman might make sure her hair is how he likes it, cooks what he wants and things of that nature. But I see sometimes people looking for a life more like these things wander into us that have punishments, discipline and the like and just how similar are we outside of some common traits and how everything gets absorbed into sub serves and dominant leads to the point we lose site or downplay that for people in significant “traditional” D/s or M/s relationships these things the others are not interested do play an important role outside of they are enjoyable to us.



_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 2:26:35 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Just, to be blunt.. it's sort of hard to make out what you're saying in many paragraphs due to a lack of prepositions and some punctuation.  I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at in places.

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 2:44:32 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Just, to be blunt.. it's sort of hard to make out what you're saying in many paragraphs due to a lack of prepositions and some punctuation.  I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at in places.


Cannot disagree with that at all!

To be blunt and direct, I believe there is a significant difference to people who want a more traditional lets say 1950’s type lifestyle that may or may not have any kink in it and a more significant/severe power exchange relationship in terms of level of direct control. I do not think that is out on a limb.

What I am poorly trying to express is when people who are only wanting the effort or give up the control of a 1950’s like situation but are wanting the results to be like a more significant power exchange relationship on their opposites behavior.

My opinion only is when these things get mixed up we tend to downplay the role that discipline/punishment (and yes sometimes kink) play into that desired level as we often revert into a submissive naturally serves and a dominant naturally leads type talk like the things like discipline/punishment/kink are merely accessories and not necessities on a more severe control level.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 3:54:37 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am going to play devils advocate.

To say that a M/s relationship is a less significant or severe power exchange simply because it is void of kink or kink type punishment is wrong.

I am going to guess that you are describing what you need to feel this type of relationship and simply cannot imagine feeling it without the kink and punishment. I think each situation will be unique unto itself. To somehow determine what someone else has based upon how they do it, and compared to what works, or doesn't, for us is doing them a disservice.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 4:22:55 PM   
Mercurialdame


Posts: 66
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline 		There are many forms of power exchange relationships out there. D/s being one, Taken in Hand, 50's household, certain cultures/ethnicity, or just generation differences within the same ethnicity.
For us, we are what we are. It really doesnt fit into any of the categories ive named, but touches on quite a few.
I 'do' need a powerexchange dynamic of some sorts, what we have has been our interpretation of a powerexchange. It wouldnt do for others of course, as it is a agreement that we have nurtured over years that works for us.
The only form of play that i partake in, that truly emphasises the powerexchange for me is humiliation. All other forms of play, im there coz i followed my clitoris into the situation.
But day to day powerexchanges occur, just not in bdsm.
I believe it to be entirely possible to have a powerexchange, with absolutely NO bdsm occurring. My parents did that exactly.
Of all of us kids relationships, she thinks mine is the happiest, not coz she knows that we are D/s, it just mirrors for her, what her generation took as a given.
She thinks this man, 'has enough strength to pull you into line', she's right.
Mercurialdame.

(in reply to toservez)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 5:52:55 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		I think it would be cool to find someone who really understands just what it is to be a human being. Not some text book, Internet made up fashion fopaw or book nazi. That has all the answer from reading online or a book but a 3d person. Who has the richness and the grace to see beyond things and feel values or morals of a well grounded person. Only then can you really build something great that is on a solid foundation

(in reply to Mercurialdame)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 9:35:10 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Excellent OP.  I've often seen that the non kinksters DO put on airs and an edge of "I'm not into that kinky sexy crap"

Actually I see that more with spankophiles than anyone "We're into spanking, not that yucky messy kinky stuff, that's just sick."

But I think with non kinksters it's almost always a backlash at being so often ignored and overlooked.  Let's face it- everyday life is boring.  A functioning relationship with intimate personal partners tends to LOOK the same and DEAL with the same issues no matter what authority dynamic they are in. 

The kink is the difference, the things we DO.  Because of this, dynamics don't really get discussed, and non kinksters are considered weirdos.

Similarly, youngsters tend to get bristly and upset because they are so often put down by the older ones.  It's a natural reaction to being denied a voice.

For me kinky stuff is just stuff I do- like any hobby of mine, like going to the movies.  A person is not cooler because they prefer to spend their time canning versus caning.  However, while it's important to always remember that and recognize it, when it comes to online discussion boards, the flashy interesting different EASY stuff is going to get discussed.  It's EASY to make a limits list when it comes to kinks.

Start talking about bills, medical issues, meeting the parents, you know, that every day stuff- suddenly the interest falls way off.  If you're lucky, you find a group of friends you can enjoy those discussions with- but certainly should not be expected of a general cyber board.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/19/2007 11:18:37 PM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		There's definitely a difference between someone who just wants to be pampered, and a Dominant figure in a relationship. How can you tell the difference? It's not really got anything to do with kink. I've seen some very lovely couples, who, almost unknowingly have settled into a D/s dynamic in their marriages, and their kinkiest moment probably involved ice or whip cream, maybe a blind fold or candles, but it certainly wasn't bondage and pain.
I've met a couple of very kinky people, who, keep it in the bedroom, and have 0 interest in power exchange of any kind. Which of those is a life-styler? Neither, both?
I think, trying to draw a line, and make people stand on one side or the other, to determine if they qualify or not, is the wrong way to go about it. If someone wants to be included in the community because they share interest in one or more of the aspects, then consider them part of the community. If they practice fetishes or life style behaviors, but do not want to be part of the BDSM community... then leave them alone. Really, a person should choose what they want to be, how they want to live, not those around them.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/20/2007 5:09:06 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		~~fast reply~~

Sir/Daddy spoils me.  it is his right and his wish to do so.  that doesnt mean that he wont correct/discipline/punish me when i mess up, he does.  its just that he prefers to lead me along by holding my hand than to drag me along by a leash.  his return on treating me the way he does is unlimited love and devotion from me, all the mental and physcial comfort i can give him, and knowing that i am willingly his property to own and control.

i am who i am. he and i both know that i probably wouldnt be every dominant's cup of tea, but i am exactly the flavor he desires to have at any given moment.  and i am glad that he kept pursuing me....

kitten, who simply, is.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Spoiled/led significantly different then this life? - 9/20/2007 5:29:03 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I think there are those people with attitudes like you describe. I see those people as seeking a fantasy. For the Dom/me it is to have a slave who will take care of all the nasty bits of life and cater to them without expecting anything in return. They will find all of their needs met in serving the Dom/me. For the sub/slave it is to find a Knigh in Armor that will whisk them away from the pressures/responsibilities of life and give them a single purpose.

I don't think this misconception is exclusive to those people who do not desire kink in the relationship. I have seen many, especially in men both sub and Dom, for whom the kink/sex is a huge part of this fantasy.

I don't think there's any problem in not being interested in kinky play but still wanting a D/s relationship. I don't think you need it to establish authority. For many pain is pleasurable so how can that be used as punishment anyway? Think about all the fantasies that revolve around "being punished".  For those types if punishment is needed (which I don't personally ascribe to) the Dom/me has to come up with something else. There have been many threads on that topic.

Honestly I've been kicking around this question quite a bit lately and I'm not sure why D/s and kink go together when they don't really need to. I think the reason is that kink needs D/s, but D/s doesn't need kink.

(in reply to adoracat)
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