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RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 9:06:40 AM

Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
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quote:

If they don't think they have the ability to identify, pursue, court and enchant a vanilla woman, they probably don't have a shot with a femdom.

I want to say something in regard to this particular sentence and it applies to vanilla as well as D/s. It's also personal (so I'm not generalizing) and I expect to receive disagreement but that's not my reason for posting. So...

When I'm putting myself "out there" to meet another, I don't actively engage in the methods described in the quote, particularly the courting and enchanting part. I don't wish to manipulate reality if that makes sense. I am who I am and it's who I am that should be attracting the other...not something I put on like makeup. For like makeup, it inevitably wears off and has to be maintained or refreshed.

I'm not interested in making myself into someone else's "idea" of who I should be. In the long run, who we are at the core is who we will be living with. This must be the heart of why we are together. If it is, then of course the Dominant can play with me all she wants because we both know who we are and why we're doing it (playing with identity).

Some might argue that we are always wearing a mask and this is true. But in a relationship, the masks come off and what's behind them determines if we stay together or not. So with me, it's honest from the start and saves a lot of time and effort. I know most people don't subscribe to this approach which is why I've been single most of the time. I'm not afraid of the other sex, I'm just not interested in playing games.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 9:45:04 AM

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"Courting" and "enchanting" do not = putting on a mask to decieve or being otherwise dishonest in anyway (at least, not for most people ... and for those that it does, it doesn't last long). Courting is doing things like bringing flowers when you pick her up. Enchanting - well, being able to do that is a part of personality/compatability - if you can engage her in polite conversation that she enjoys, she will likely describe you as "enchanting."

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 9:51:08 AM

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

quote:

If they don't think they have the ability to identify, pursue, court and enchant a vanilla woman, they probably don't have a shot with a femdom.

I want to say something in regard to this particular sentence and it applies to vanilla as well as D/s. It's also personal (so I'm not generalizing) and I expect to receive disagreement but that's not my reason for posting. So...

When I'm putting myself "out there" to meet another, I don't actively engage in the methods described in the quote, particularly the courting and enchanting part. I don't wish to manipulate reality if that makes sense. I am who I am and it's who I am that should be attracting the other...not something I put on like makeup. For like makeup, it inevitably wears off and has to be maintained or refreshed.

I'm not interested in making myself into someone else's "idea" of who I should be. In the long run, who we are at the core is who we will be living with. This must be the heart of why we are together. If it is, then of course the Dominant can play with me all she wants because we both know who we are and why we're doing it (playing with identity).

Some might argue that we are always wearing a mask and this is true. But in a relationship, the masks come off and what's behind them determines if we stay together or not. So with me, it's honest from the start and saves a lot of time and effort. I know most people don't subscribe to this approach which is why I've been single most of the time. I'm not afraid of the other sex, I'm just not interested in playing games.

anthrosub

Courting someone doesn't mean you change anything else about you -- not at all. I'm not sure where you got that idea. It means you pursue, rather than sit back and hope something happens. It means you do some research perhaps, and think about something you could do to make that person smile unexpectedly, and not be afraid to risk showing that you have a genuine interest. Many men won't do these things because they are afraid of rejection or would rather wait and hope someone else does the work for them.

It doesn't mean you have to "fake" yourself by taking a woman out to a fancy restaurant -- if in reality you hate going out to fancy places and think that would "misrepresent" the type of relationship you desire. It means you do, however, make contact and ask the person to do something else more typical of what you do to enjoy time with friends.

It means you take extra effort to make sure you look nice and show that you want to make a nice impression, because what you are pursuing is of value to you. That doesn't mean you are setting the expectation that you will, until the day you die, dress that way for the lady.

None of the things related to courting or pursuing a woman have a standard method, or an expectation that requires you morph into a person that you are not. It just means you put effort into it, even if it seems like a risk.

Akasha

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(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 1:48:11 PM

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Joined: 6/2/2004
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Well, everything you said makes perfect sense and is not describing more than what one might expect when meeting. Maybe for me it's been the luck of the draw but for some reason, every person I've been in a relationship with invariably starts trying to change me into someone else within 6 weeks to 3 months. When I was younger and insecure with what it means to have a partner, I fell for this thinking it was a part of "getting to know" each other. But I wised up quickly to what was going on.

Now that I'm much older and have a stronger sense of who and what I am, I don't buy into that anymore. If it persists...I'm gone. Everyone has their good points and their quirks and at my age I think this should be expected from both sides. I'm willing to live and let live but can't seem to meet anyone who feels the same way. Thanks for your input. I'm still giving it thought.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 5:06:42 PM

Posts: 179
Joined: 5/9/2004
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quote:

So femdoms --
What was the most common reason you didn't connect with a male sub who approached you?

age, long term goals, sometimes no reason at all. It just didnt work

quote:

How long did it take to find the partner you ended up partnering with? Where did you meet your partner?

I have been 'meeting' for ages. We happened to both be single at the time. Him for about three weeks(yes he is a tart)... myself I had been single for probable 2 or 3 months. Having said that both of us still had regular play partners. Just no couple component

quote:

What about your partner stood out more than the many subs that were competing for your attention?

Service Orientated :
On the reasons why he is great. I was not feeling the greatest last night he went down to the local chemist and bought me some nighttime cold stuff. Ok I hear you saying that is what he is supposed to do. Yes you are right

but he did it just cause. His team in football was on the tv being transmitted live last quarter goal for goal at his stage. I offered to drive him and stay in the car while he ran in to get the medication he said no stay here and stay warm. So he walked down. Best part he really was just pleased to get the medication to have me feeling better.

He likes my butt , which is very strange but nice to have a piece of me physically that is of attractiveness to him. Mind I like looking at his butt as well. Handy I get to tell him to walk in front sometimes
He is placid, funny, thoughtful considerate. I am fortunate that we met.
Playwise... very similar. As I have posted a few times before, we only met for play

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 5:19:52 PM

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I have an even harder time due to my married status. Once most males find out I am married to my co-dominant husband,they run the other way. They are either afraid they will have to be dominated by him as well or sexually serve him. Some seek that sexual connection, but my husband is not bisexual. If this male was to enter our household, I would completely expect him to be submissive to us both, however if he is to be my boy toy then my husband would not dominate him. Proper protocol for my primary would need to be observed. So,imagine how hard this can be to explain to a male submissive I might be interested in!

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 5:40:03 PM

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

I have an even harder time due to my married status. Once most males find out I am married to my co-dominant husband,they run the other way. They are either afraid they will have to be dominated by him as well or sexually serve him. Some seek that sexual connection, but my husband is not bisexual. If this male was to enter our household, I would completely expect him to be submissive to us both, however if he is to be my boy toy then my husband would not dominate him. Proper protocol for my primary would need to be observed. So,imagine how hard this can be to explain to a male submissive I might be interested in!

I have the exact same problem!! And for what ever reason they can't understand that my husband/co-dominant will not get jealous of them serving me! That's why I added the little note to my journal.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to MadameG)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 6:06:54 PM

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This is an awesome thread!! Anywho, I totally agree with what most of the Dommes posted. A lot of the sub males I have come in contact with are all about "listing" their wants and needs. I'm like, hello, that's not the point of the exercise! lol. Even though I am crystal clear in my profile about what type of sub I am looking for, I still get the 60 year olds, the guys that live in Abu Dabu, etc, etc. Even when I tried to be fair, and give the long-distance thing a good 'ole college try, the dudes disappeared! What up with that??! lol. I think finding a partner in the D/s realm is a lot harder than vanilla dating. Finding a partner that matches your specific needs, wants, and desires is hard enough, but add the layer of BDSM makes it even harder. I try to do vanilla dating, but I always go back to a D/s relationship.

Another issue that comes up is that when I tell a sub that I am not interested, he gets all emo and pissed! WTF?! I'm trying to be nice, but they still get mad; they say I'm too picky. I don't think that I am at all.

Also, I like caucasian sub males. This sometimes causes a problems b/c if he has never been with a Black woman period, he sees me as a "goodie bag" for all his sexual fantasies; 1. to be with a Black woman, and 2. to be dominated. That's why I tend to deal with white male subs that have had a relationship with Black women, D/s and/or vanilla.

I haven't been on this site too long, so we will see how it goes!

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/23/2005 6:33:17 PM

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Oh...so it's *not* just me. ;) (The "Do me-Do me" laundry lists. The view that I'm just a vicious Bitch in tight, uncomfortable clothes and the stance that my interests are of no concern to the so-called "submissives."

I find it interesting that I just posted to my local group this very gripe: That there are far too many self-absorbed self-serving NGBs (needy-greedy bottoms) who want, want, want. And when I assert that I want in return, they seem stunned that I am not actually a means to their ends. (double-intendre intended.) And I'd used many of the same descriptors that you ladies have used, as well.

I am, unfortunately, still on the "Available-and-getting-really-bored-with- the-toads" list. What *is* a Dominant girl to do?

Thanks for the post, Aakasha.

QueenRah

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 12:26:39 AM

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Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs, do you think femdoms are being unreasonable in their expectations?

Akasha

"Expect nothing, and you will never be disappointed."
Alexander Pope

Every relationships is like a snowflake or a flower... no two are alike. So I find it pretty hard to classify all Dommes or all subs as any one particular way.

I'm sure plenty of subs fall into the same snivelling, whining, "Me-Me-Me" category... or they're too passive... or they're too self focused... but i'm sure there are an equal number who keep their Mistresses quite happy.

I look at it as if i'm a unique piece in gigantic crossword puzzle. Out there somewhere in the world are 2-3 other pieces that fit perfectly with my personality. You go through life holding up your piece to other people's pieces... trying to figure out if you're a perfect match. Most are not. Some try to jam their pieces together, and make something fit that just doesn't work. I can count on a couple of fingers the times that i've run into someone that really fit... someone that had just the right balance of chemistry, physical attraction, and mental stimulation. There's not rhyme or reason to when or where it happens. Could be online... could be in a bar... in a church... i met my son's mother on a public bus.

Your idea of meeting someone in the vanilla world, and turning them into the subbie of your dreams is interesting. In some cases i could see where that could work, and be quite satisfying for the Domme. On the other hand, you could also be setting yourself up for a major disappointment if your vanilla date gets nervous and turns and runs.

It's just a matter of finding the right fit, and theortically it seems you could potentially find it anywhere.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 2:26:09 AM

TiNeedsHouseboy

Posts: 145
Joined: 4/24/2005
From: Big Apple blossom blown to The Windy City
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Euryanx
"Expect nothing, and you will never be disappointed."
Alexander Pope

You may not be disappointed, but that still doesn't fill the void!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Euryanx
Every relationships is like a snowflake or a flower... no two are alike. So I find it pretty hard to classify all Dommes or all subs as any one particular way.

I couldn't agree more. I don't get the sense that people have been pondering "all" kinksters. They've been referencing what's going on with people who contacted them during their respective searches.

The problem we're running into, which IMO is reflected by the experiences of people posting to this thread, has been that for whatever reasons, subs who have the inner resilience to keep their Mistresses quite happy are not the guys who seem to troll online services. (That's not intended as a dig against you. You may well be an exception.)

Where they are and how to search them out remains a great mystery to me. Just when I think I might have crossed paths with someone who's worth my time, I discover that he's a super turbo liar, who could make Pinocchio's nose look short!

Side note: Classic example of the deception propensity..... I noticed that a key concept was plagiarized from my profile and woven into a guy’s profile who'd been stringing me along. After looking more closely at his profile, it occurred to me that his profile likely sounds decent because he knit together notions from sundry Dommes' profiles, rather than typing his own words and speaking from his heart. He's highly educated and articulate, and most assuredly has the skills to do so.

In honor of his outrageous approach to Domme hunting -- a guy who happens to be trained as a mathematician -- you may now all play Tom Lehrer singing LOBACHEVSKY. For anyone who'd like to sing along, the words are printed below.

Lobachevsky
By Tom Lehrer

<Spoken intro> For many years now, Mr. Danny Kaye, who has been my particular idol since childbirth, has been doing a routine about the great Russian director Stanislavsky and the secret of success in the acting profession. And I thought it would be interesting to stea... to adapt this idea to the field of mathematics. I always like to make explicit the fact that before I went off not too long ago to fight in the trenches, I was a mathematician by profession. I don't like people to get the idea that I have to do this for a living. I mean, it isn't as though I had to do this, you know, I could be making, oh, 3000 dollars a year just teaching.

Be that as it may, some of you may have had occasion to run into mathematicians and to wonder therefore how they got that way, and here, in partial explanation perhaps, is the story of the great Russian mathematician Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky. <End intro. Begin song.>

Who made me the genius I am today,
The mathematician that others all quote,
Who's the professor that made me that way?
The greatest that ever got chalk on his coat.

One man deserves the credit,
One man deserves the blame,
And Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky is his name.
Hey!
Nicolai Ivanovich Lobach-

I am never forget the day I first meet the great Lobachevsky.
In one word he told me secret of success in mathematics:
Plagiarize!

Plagiarize,
Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes,
So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize -
Only be sure always to call it please 'research'.

And ever since I meet this man
My life is not the same,
And Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky is his name.
Hey!
Nicolai Ivanovich Lobach-

I am never forget the day I am given first original paper
to write. It was on analytic and algebraic topology of
locally Euclidean parameterization of infinitely differentiable
Riemannian manifold.
Bozhe moi!
This I know from nothing.
But I think of great Lobachevsky and get idea - ahah!

I have a friend in Minsk,
Who has a friend in Pinsk,
Whose friend in Omsk
Has friend in Tomsk
With friend in Akmolinsk.
His friend in Alexandrovsk
Has friend in Petropavlovsk,
Whose friend somehow
Is solving now
The problem in Dnepropetrovsk.

And when his work is done -
Ha ha! - begins the fun.
From Dnepropetrovsk
To Petropavlovsk,
By way of Iliysk,
And Novorossiysk,
To Alexandrovsk to Akmolinsk
To Tomsk to Omsk
To Pinsk to Minsk
To me the news will run,
Yes, to me the news will run!

And then I write
By morning, night,
And afternoon,
And pretty soon
My name in Dnepropetrovsk is cursed,
When he finds out I publish first!

And who made me a big success
And brought me wealth and fame?
Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky is his name.
Hey!
Nicolai Ivanovich Lobach -

I am never forget the day my first book is published.
Every chapter I stole from somewhere else.
Index I copy from old Vladivostok telephone directory.
This book was sensational!
Pravda - well, Pravda - Pravda said: (Russian double-talk)
It stinks.
But Izvestia! Izvestia said: (Russian double-talk)
It stinks.
Metro-Goldwyn-Moskva buys movie rights for six million rubles,
Changing title to 'The Eternal Triangle',
With Brigitte Bardot playing part of hypotenuse.

And who deserves the credit?
And who deserves the blame?
Nicolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky is his name.
Hey!

So, here's a head scratcher: If plagiarizing mathematical ideas is "research," what does one label pilfered Domme thoughts?

We now return you to our regularly scheduled non-musical, non-plagiarized content....

I don't attend local munches or BDSM groups because I can't be exposed to passive cigarette smoke -- including what's been collected in hair and clothing. So, a subbie buddy, who's active in the local scene, and is hired as "official" photographer for kinky events, offered to interview prospects and take their photos for me. (There's a true subbie heart! Sadly, he's married -- of course! Story of my life.) To facilitate his ability to screen attendees, we reviewed what I'm seeking. He assured me that munches, parties and BDSM groups don't have prospective subs who'd be a suitable match for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Euryanx
I look at it as if i'm a unique piece in gigantic crossword puzzle. Out there somewhere in the world are 2-3 other pieces that fit perfectly with my personality. You go through life holding up your piece to other people's pieces... trying to figure out if you're a perfect match. Most are not. Some try to jam their pieces together, and make something fit that just doesn't work. I can count on a couple of fingers the times that i've run into someone that really fit... someone that had just the right balance of chemistry, physical attraction, and mental stimulation. There's not rhyme or reason to when or where it happens.

Interesting analogy. Here's another that intrigued me. I saved it from someone's post during a transient stint in a poly Yahoo group:

> I always looked at all of us as if we were broken pieces of glass
> floating in space and that every now and then we bumped into
> another piece of the same color and general shape, and if we
> were very, very lucky we would find a piece that we fit together
> with and then we could be better as a bigger stronger piece.
> When enough fit together made we could even be whole. But
> no one piece knows what we will once we all come together.
> Maybe we could all be something very beautiful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Euryanx
Your idea of meeting someone in the vanilla world, and turning them into the subbie of your dreams is interesting. In some cases i could see where that could work, and be quite satisfying for the Domme. On the other hand, you could also be setting yourself up for a major disappointment if your vanilla date gets nervous and turns and runs.

I have yet to hear of an arrangement where this has truly succeeded when a male sub attempted spousal conversion to Domme-hood. In the least traumatic of situations, the wife went along with it as a form of very casual play to indulge her hubbie, but she never felt Domme-ish. She granted permission for him to scene with Dommes, but this causes lies of omission in the relationship. Though he's not having sex with the Dommes, his dick is prominently targeted during scening -- which makes his wife go bonkers, leading him to avoid discussing what transpires.

In other situations, indulging the male libido's kinky needs was used to coax him into marriage. Once the ink was dry on the marriage certificate, he was told what a pervert he is and that she wanted no more to with his deviance. (He's a pain slut.)

Then there's the case where supposedly the wife launched into Domme mode for a few years (another pain slut), but one day, decided that she was tired of her husband's chronic interest in sex only when it was kinky. She felt that he was far more interested in having his kinks indulged than in having a relationship. She moved out and into the arms of a vanilla lover. They're divorced.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Euryanx
It's just a matter of finding the right fit, and theortically it seems you could potentially find it anywhere.

Conceptually, I realize that this is correct. It's the single reason that I have yet to throw in my search towel.

On the other hand, if you would see the droves of futile e-mails and IMs that I've received, it's likely there would not be enough Pepto Bismol plus Compazine available to keep you from barfing your guts out.

~ Ti ~

(in reply to Euryanx)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 5:23:00 AM

Posts: 203
Joined: 3/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Subs, do you think femdoms are being unreasonable in their expectations?

No, I don't think they are. I think for the most part many are as confused about what they are seeking as the submissives they claim are confused about what they are offering. The last person to pursue me here for a possible relationship seemed like she was what I was seeking. I'm a strong servitude type submissive/slave, and she stated she was seeking just that. But several phone calls into the "relationship" was pretty much all I needed to figure out that she wasn't seeking anyone, but was looking for a fight. She claimed to be extremely beautiful (which if you know me, you understand that I might be flattered by that, but it's not going to be the sole thing I'm seeking in a relationship); however, it was how she referred to as "every other domme" as some "fat domme wannabe" that made me realize this was not a very friendly person. The last time I spoke to her she was drunk on the phone and kept saying I obviously wasn't a submissive. How are you supposed to respond to that? Finally, I said she was probably right and that I was going to be ending the conversation (and the relationship) because I just didn't feel comfortable with such conversations.

But I don't think femdoms are being unreasonable because I have clicked in the past with the right women, and quite often it was because they knew exactly what they were seeking, and at the time I was the perfect person for the relationship. Unfortunately (and this is my own character flaw, I believe), I end up being one of those submissives that is fun to pursue until you get him, and then there's this belief that everyone must be like me, so I easily get cast aside for the "next sub" who might have some attribute that is better than those I have, such as sexier, younger, richer, or whatever. The expectation is that my partner will be able to have exactly what I've been in her life PLUS whatever attribute is great about this next guy. The guys ALWAYS promise to be exactly what I have managed to be. Six months later, after I've been cast out for the new blood, I always get contacted again by my previous domme who realized that someone talking the talk doesn't equate to someone who actually means what he says. Part of my character flaw is that I don't go back to someone who has dumped me. I used to in the past, and I decided somewhere down the line that I'd rather be alone than go back to someone who thinks I'm disposable. Because if she dumped me once, she'll probably dump me again (I can speak on that with much emphasis).

One day, I'll find the right person, meaning someone who is looking for someone who is serious and isn't playing any games to get his kinks fulfilled only. When I tell a woman that I am extremely interested in her pleasure, I am serious. And unfortunately, the number of guys saying this and meaning they want to have sex or do her orally or whatever has completely sullied the words when I say I am interested in her pleasure. Nothing makes me feel better than being with the woman who owns me and seeing her smile because my presence and/or actions has benefited her in some small or great way. I honestly miss those days, and with the amount of toxic people out there today I suspect memories are something I'll have to focus on more than desires.

_____________________________

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day...
...teach a man to fish, he steals your fishing hole and then charges you for the fish.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 5:27:28 AM

Posts: 380
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TiNeedsHouseboy
...They're not actually subs. They floundered into BDSM somehow, and think they found their niche, perceiving it as the solution for what they lack in social skills. Accordingly, finding a woman who will take the lead and do stuff "to" them, and make decisions for them, complements the impediment.

~ Ti ~

Nicely said, Ti.

>... If they don't think they have the ability to identify, pursue, court and >enchant a vanilla woman, they probably don't have a shot with a >femdom...and end up with very insecure dating ability and have no >skills when it comes to charm, romance and sophistication.

>I'm surprised more subs are not commenting on this. Where are all the >ones that complain they can't meet a femdom, that we femdoms are >only after money, etc.?

>Akasha

They're busy sending one-liners and laundry lists to Dominas, without bothering to read their profiles first. :)

RAH

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 6:06:51 AM

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Part of my character flaw is that I don't go back to someone who has dumped me. I used to in the past, and I decided somewhere down the line that I'd rather be alone than go back to someone who thinks I'm disposable. Because if she dumped me once, she'll probably dump me again (I can speak on that with much emphasis).

This is a lesson I have learned resently, and like you sarbonn, not one I wish to repeat. After reading and contributing to this thread I can't help but state the obvious. There is nothing in here that the Domina's have complained about... and I use that word because it's early and I'm half awake here... that the male submissives have not experienced as well. There are players and wannabes on both sides of the kneel and we have all met our fair share. The big question is this... is there a sure fire method of weeding them out? Like our quest at hand isn't daunting enough why not throw in a bunch of people that are just in it to see how many notches they can put on their cyber-gun.

One thing that I have experienced is that often times I can just talk to submissives and form a wonderful friendship, I can do this because I know there is no reason to try to "court" them... they are too far away and the chances of either of us relocating are slim to non-existant.... only to find out, realize... whatever you want to call it, that we are extremely well matched.... one of the many pitfalls of the "net" I guess. So do we limit our search to local only....? Then we may miss the one in the next state that may be all we wished for... or the one that is living a thousand miles away but is willing to move... It's just hard to know what to do so much of the time, it seems that we just kind of stumble around till we get it right or we get lucky.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to sarbonn)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 7:34:59 AM

RosaB

Posts: 852
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

I don't know about anyone else, but when I say that meeting in a vanilla setting is probably a better option. I'm not talking converting a non kinky submissive type into my ideal sub-male. Submissive men do attend regualar everyday events. You meet find out things you have in common, and note the little things about the individual to see if they may be open to exploring your kinks. I believe there are suttle ways to figure out if someone swings toward aspects of this lifestyle before you decide if you want to get seriously involved with a person. You don't ever want to be so arrogant as to think you are going to change the core of another human being, just to suit your desires.

However, it could be fun to attempt to convert a willing vanilla over to the dark side, to some degree. ; ) . It might be temporary or not, but if they're open to it, just enjoy it for what it is.

Now as far as why hardly any of the submissive men that complain about not finding a nonpro. I think the silence show's just how many are really searching for the fantasy of what the prodomme has to offer, his desire to stay emotionally detached and univolved in the process of getting to know a woman as a person outside of kinkieness. I hope more sub/slave men will post and prove this to be wrong, but so far only a few seem to voice an opinion on what's being discussed here. Have the women's statements been so far away from what they hoped we wanted by being part of these boards. Were they hoping we all prefered to just bark out orders and not want any genuine connections beyond kink? Have we shattered their fantasies of what is in the mind of the femdomme? I'm just wondering is all.

Rosa

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 7:49:36 AM

Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs, do you think femdoms are being unreasonable in their expectations?

Akasha

Yea I do think that. On one hand they say " we get so many emails we need things to stand out" and on the other hand they say " Oh only one or two lines is acceptable". Or " submissives profiles have not got enough information in them". I admit I have hardly anything but other submissives well most ive read have extensive profiles with what they want and Fem dommes still complain.

Femdommes want their needs met straight away yet what about the submissives? Serving is not the only need as sex is a need also. People are kidding themselves if they say sex is not important ( Ill cop heaps for that line ) or being whipped or tied up etc. Submissives dont put it up for the way it looks in their profiles. They want it done.

Another thing that came up in the posts of this thread has been conversations only being about bdsm.. Well ive read many posts of Female Dominants saying " I give the person a task when they first meet me. Like what does Dominant mean to you etc etc". If you want normal conversations why not speak normally??? Instead of giving a task ask them about them? Their lifes, their interests etc. Alot of Female Dominants only really have a good conversation when regarding bdsm.. Thats what ive found with this site anyway.

A reason alot of submissives would not of spoken up in this forumn is because they are scared of ruining their chances with a prospective Dominant where I am not particulary worried.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 9:13:46 AM

SadisticPrincess

Posts: 87
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline

I guess you are not especially worried, considering that post!

I agree with you that sex is an important part of many relationships. I will venture to say that sex is a much more intimate act for women than it is for men, and as part of the d/s dynamic, it is something even more valuable. Sex is not the reward for service, as you seem to be implying.

(in reply to imtempting)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 10:34:23 AM

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs, do you think femdoms are being unreasonable in their expectations?

Akasha

Yea I do think that. On one hand they say " we get so many emails we need things to stand out" and on the other hand they say " Oh only one or two lines is acceptable". Or " submissives profiles have not got enough information in them". I admit I have hardly anything but other submissives well most ive read have extensive profiles with what they want and Fem dommes still complain.

Femdommes want their needs met straight away yet what about the submissives? Serving is not the only need as sex is a need also. People are kidding themselves if they say sex is not important ( Ill cop heaps for that line ) or being whipped or tied up etc. Submissives dont put it up for the way it looks in their profiles. They want it done.

Another thing that came up in the posts of this thread has been conversations only being about bdsm.. Well ive read many posts of Female Dominants saying " I give the person a task when they first meet me. Like what does Dominant mean to you etc etc". If you want normal conversations why not speak normally??? Instead of giving a task ask them about them? Their lifes, their interests etc. Alot of Female Dominants only really have a good conversation when regarding bdsm.. Thats what ive found with this site anyway.

A reason alot of submissives would not of spoken up in this forumn is because they are scared of ruining their chances with a prospective Dominant where I am not particulary worried.

Not all FemDoms want their needs met straight away ... unless you count my need (and I am far from the only one) to get to know someone before I have any desire to dominate them.

The complaints about the conversations being only about BDSM are more along the lines of - only being about the kinky sex (i.e. how often would you spank me? do you use a strapon often? are you into suspension? I love medical play, do you? etc.) - if they want to talk about the nonsexual aspects of BDSM, I can handle that, but if all they are talking about is their dick, their ass, and what Holly and I are presumably going to do to/with them, then I'm not going to be even remotely interested. And apparently you have been talking to "a lot" of the wrong FemDoms.

(in reply to imtempting)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 11:43:41 AM

TiNeedsHouseboy

Posts: 145
Joined: 4/24/2005
From: Big Apple blossom blown to The Windy City
Status: offline

Precursor to Akasha....

If we were on a radio call-in show, they'd have to do one of those routines where they ding a bell to mark the moment..... Something to the effect of: "Long time reader of your website" (before you devised your spiffy new design/current membership notion).... First time (I believe) I'm cross-posting directly to you on these boards (though I've been in other threads you initiated). <Ding! Ding! Ding!>

Though sundry D/s interactions/tales on your site are significantly different from what fires my libidinal furnace (ain't diversity of indulgences grand?!?), I regularly found your content intriguing and engaging. Your posts on these boards are consistently insightful and thought provoking. Thanks for sparking this neato-keano thread!

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting
Alot of Female Dominants only really have a good conversation when regarding bdsm.. Thats what ive found with this site anyway.

A reason alot of submissives would not of spoken up in this forumn is because they are scared of ruining their chances with a prospective Dominant where I am not particulary worried.

Not sure which Dommes you've encountered. My experience has been, much to my chagrin, that prospective subs (and I'm being generous in using that description) are lost and clueless when they hear my NON-BDSM expectations.

First and foremost, I do not allow any D/s or use of honorifics until after accepted for service. If a guy can't hack it as my friend/ally/buddy, then it's pointless to continue a rapport, let alone one that involves D/s. For me, the sub's most critical function is the ability to keep me intellectually engaged and inspired. If he can't accomplish that, then it's futile to continue. Tickling my brain's fancy is my minimum requirement.

To that end, I request detailed, engaging written introductions. Instead, I end up with laundry lists of BDSM activities, or detailed recaps of how wonderfully a past Domme was served, or wanker inventions about their take on where a relationship between us will head. I need a sense of the everyday inner being of the person interacting with me.

I began my houseboy search around January, 2003. Since then, I have received almost no responses that comply with my expectations. Generally, I get next to no e-mail. What I find is an inundation of chat invitations, or winks, or appearances on guys' "favorites" lists. It became evident long ago that I'd have to make the first move. How to woo a prospective Domme and capture her interest eludes these guys. It makes me wonder how they even manage to get "vanilla" girlfriends.

Most maddening has been my creation of detailed introductions about myself, which spin off a guy's profile. (I have no prepackaged form note that I can access.) What do I get in return? Either no reply at all, or an e-mail that's vague, evasive, distorts reality, and lack of self-awareness. Often, the guy runs in terror because he can't hack just being himself. Burned into my memory banks from a very early e-mail exchange was the guy's note that stated I was asking him to ponder notions no one had ever before raised. He was happy to send me unsolicited dick and ass shots (including with dildoes inserted), but that was as close to his insides as he was able to get.

Tragically, there's been a pattern that if I happen to mention a personal belief/practice that conflicts with the guy's wants/needs/desires, rather than the guy replying, "Gee, that's interesting and so different from my experiences because....." or requesting further clarification, I get my head bitten off for not knowing what I'm talking about. Even after giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, and letting him know he should ask questions before going off on a flaming rant, the guy continues to dig himself into a deeper hole.

There seems to be a huge training need for Communication Skills 101. This is likely a reflection of countless poor self-concepts among alleged sub denizens, whose only capacity to relate socially invokes their rage reactions and defensiveness, rather than the ability to exchange information. Is it any wonder that such people can't figure out why they can't find a partner to Domme them?

………………………………….

A brief road trip down the path of wrath I've experienced:

I feel compelled to recap a bizarre series of events that reflect the sort of insecurity and rage I'm referencing. I'm reminded of one of the few face-to-face meetings I ended up having.

In the case of this sub -– who seemed more of a do-me guy, with a strong tendency to act wounded if he didn't get external validation for his efforts -- I didn't think we were well matched for a serving relationship. (For one thing, he's married -- but that was the least of it.) On an employment level, I've interfaced with plenty of guys just like him. Coincidently, he was expanding his business, and my background would complement his work needs. Beyond that, it would be a refreshing change and mutually advantageous to work with someone who's kink aware.

Big mistake to deny an insecure sub a shot at serving, while attempting to explore an employment relationship. (I don't advocate mixing work and libido.) Be that as it may....

We met in Starbucks, my haunt for initial encounters, since it was geographically convenient. It became evident after a few moments that he had no interest in exploring job options. He wanted to use the meeting to put me in my place for rejecting him. He wanted me to know in no uncertain terms that I had nothing to offer his business.

His behavior grew progressively more inappropriate and unprofessional, until he peaked by screaming at me in the middle of Starbucks! It was an all-out hissy fit. Surely, patrons were staring, but I maintained a steady lock with his eyeballs. I said nothing, while giving him the "you've lost your mind" stare. With that, he stormed out of Starbucks.

While shaking my head that anyone could make such a public fool of himself, my peripheral vision caught sight of his cell phone. It had dropped to the floor beneath his chair. A huge grin overtook me. After all that nonsense, he’d have to suck it up, eat crow, and see me yet again to retrieve the cell phone.

I turned off the phone to save the battery and called him when I got home. He came to my building to pick it up later that day. I remained calm, cool, and collected.

You'd think that would have been the last time I heard from him. Nope!

He travels frequently for his job. While out of town (a few months later), he sent me an IM while in a hotel room. Picture my eyeballs bulging out when he remarked that he wanted to have phone sex with me!!!!!! (Phone sex and cyber sex do nothing for me, and if I were to get into such activities, it would not be with him!) He was crushed that I didn't welcome his return with open arms, and it was transparent that he was trying to ward off another tantrum. He decided we should never speak to one another again! (Gee! Ya think?!? What took him so long to realize that? This is a guy who's quite bright, who has a Master's degree from a university with a hotsy-totsy reputation. That didn't ward off the emotionally destructive demons that plague him.)
……………………………………

Returning to our regularly scheduled thread:

Needless to say, the only "unsolicited" detailed introductions that generally fall into my lap are generic wanker notes, targeting elaborate do-me fantasies -- what someone in a recent post so accurately labeled "needy, greedy bottoms." Sigh.

Regarding a sub who lurks on these boards because he's afraid he'll blow his chances with me (let's see how to phrase this as nicely as possible).... He's too interpersonally limited to have the inner strength required to fit into my life -- even as a Platonic partner. People in my life must be able to weave strong social fabrics, not moth-ridden, undesirable interpersonal networks.

~ Ti ~

(in reply to imtempting)

RE: Femdoms can't find a decent male partner - 7/24/2005 1:35:10 PM

Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: imtempting

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Subs, do you think femdoms are being unreasonable in their expectations?

Yea I do think that. On one hand they say " we get so many emails we need things to stand out" and on the other hand they say " Oh only one or two lines is acceptable".

Be careful of lumping individuals into a group and then making general statements about that group. That is stereotyping. Can you point to an example of a domme who says both that they want details of your life and that only one or two lines are acceptable? I fear you are letting your anger or frustration get the better of your reason.

quote:

Femdommes want their needs met straight away yet what about the submissives? Serving is not the only need as sex is a need also.

A submissive must first gain control of himself before you can hand over control to someone else. A submissive needs to be comfortable with letting his domme meet his needs when she decides, not when he demands it. I wonder how much of the problems in finding a good sub is because guys don't take the first step of mastering themselves.

quote:

Alot of Female Dominants only really have a good conversation when regarding bdsm.. Thats what ive found with this site anyway.

Forum discussions rarely give an idea of what a person is like in real life. The topics and format are too limited.

quote:

A reason alot of submissives would not of spoken up in this forumn is because they are scared of ruining their chances with a prospective Dominant

This is a baseless worry. If a person puts on a false face online, they are only inviting mutual disappointment when the two meet and the mask is taken off.

Besides, if there is an honest disagreement on an issue it is best to consider all sides to better get at the truth.

(in reply to imtempting)

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