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RE: Gun Play - 10/22/2007 11:58:06 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Still not the same thing, death with a firearm can be instantaneous.  Most other forms of play the switch from safe to dead isn't instant.

That said, I wouldn't automatically condemn someone for playing with guns.  There are better/safer forms of play for all the risky things and there is stuff that to me crosses the line from RACK to just fucking NUTS.

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Gun Play - 11/15/2007 11:51:28 AM   
serenitee


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I ran across a black dildo that was in the shape of a handgun. I saw it at the Stag Shop on Church Street in Toronto and thought it would be a great way to safely fulfill gunplay fantasies. I do believe it costs $90 Canadian but I could be wrong. 

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Gun Play - 11/15/2007 2:07:52 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
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my alpha slave has gone as far as to inform its lawyer and its Dr. that we play rough at times, so rough, that if something happens to it, it wanted them to know as professionals it was consentual on its part. gun and knife play, breathe control ( which is what i use most ) can be very intimate and feels great for the controller and the releaser, but as you know, be careful. i have hand signals for slave to use during all this. obviously not for beginners on either side, use extreme caution. i must admit, removing live rounds, and removing fire pin takes alot away from it. but if it comes from nowhere onto a slave, how is it to know the difference?

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Gun Play - 11/15/2007 2:11:43 PM   
MasterFireMaam


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We did gun play in Karate/Jujitzu a few weeks ago. :-) I know it was educational and stuff...but damned it was hot. Especially getting to be the 'bad guy' with Sensei (whom I have teh hots for!). Oh yeah, we learned how to disarm someone and clear the gun. There's just something about ejecting the magazine...or pumping a shotgun...

Master Fire


_____________________________

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(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Gun Play - 11/15/2007 2:20:45 PM   
Alumbrado


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Apparently the only thing that bullets can't kill is this thread.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: Gun Play - 11/15/2007 3:02:05 PM   
Leonardo


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Guns don't kill people... it's the idiots who play with them, thinking that they are toys that kill people.

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Gun Play - 11/15/2007 5:43:30 PM   
masterlink65


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people kill people, do not blame the gun

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RE: Gun Play - 8/9/2008 12:19:34 PM   
WizardOfDelphi


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Anyone who would play with a real, loaded weapon is insane.

I have many years of firearm experience and accidents do happen.  Luckily I've never had one, but I'm wise enough to know that's good luck mixed with a healthy dose of firearm respect and a little paranoia.  But I do know even professional gun smiths who have accidentally discharged weapons!  One I know was cleaning his rifle at home in a 2nd story apartment and forgot to unload the round in the chamber.  He unintentionally discharged the round which went through the floor and broke a lamp in the apartment below.  Luckily no one below was injured because they were not home at the time.  Police officers who deal with guns on a daily basis have accidents as well.

Also please note that using blanks is not safe because at close range they can kill too.  Blanks may not have an actual bullet, but they still have packing and other materials which are discharged from the barrel at high speed when fired.  Such rounds at a few feet distance can cause anything from burns to injury or even potentially death.

The safe way to do firearm play is to use a piece that can not discharge rounds.  I know a couple of people who do gun play locally and they don't use real guns.  They use fake ones, how authentic or real they look varies.  What level of realism is needed depends on what you're going for.  If you want realism you can find prop guns for movies and such which are real guns modified so they only fire blanks and do so in reverse from what I understand (they don't discharge the blank out the front).  I don't know how much these would cost, but if this is the type of play and level of realism you want then you pay what is required.  If you can't afford to do it safely then use something cheaper or don't do it.  Ignoring safety to save money is dangerous and stupid.  As I recall that's how Brandon Lee got killed by a firearm on a movie set.  If it can happen there with all their precautions, experts and safety people all around then it can certainly happen in the middle of your scene.

Lastly, for any dominant that thinks playing with anything but a live loaded weapon takes away from the seen - please seek help.  If you're using something even moderately realistic looking the scene can totally be orchestrated so that the bottom does not know it isn't a real gun.  They can still have the same reaction even though the play is actually safe.  If you (the dom) are the one wanting the real loaded gun, then me thinks you should reconsider many things.

Yes, I know, I'm opinionated.  But when it comes to things that have a very high chance of actually maiming or killing people I feel it is appropriate.  Prior to reading this thread I had never heard of anyone using a real, loaded weapon in a scene.  If we were talking about something I really didn't like but wasn't going to kill people then I'd say, hey go do whatever you want and have fun (just don't expect me to watch).


(in reply to GhitaAmati)
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RE: Gun Play - 8/9/2008 12:22:21 PM   
GreedyTop


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From: Savannah, GA
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well, thats no fun.

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(in reply to WizardOfDelphi)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Gun Play - 8/9/2008 12:42:42 PM   
HisLittlePet


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I don't care what ANYONE says......

An unloaded gun will never never never shoot someone..........regardless of if its disabled and unable to fire at all.  If you don't put bullets in it, it can't shoot one off.



(in reply to GreedyTop)
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RE: Gun Play - 8/9/2008 12:49:14 PM   
bipolarber


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Yup... guns, unloaded are just pretty hunks of metal... couldn't hurt anyone...

(obviously, the term "pistol whipping" is unknown in these here parts...or they've never heard about clubbing someone with the stock of a rifle.)




(in reply to HisLittlePet)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Gun Play - 8/9/2008 1:14:12 PM   
GreedyTop


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From: Savannah, GA
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personally speaking...... if it aint loaded live, it's no fun.

but I'm a sick bitch.


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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Gun Play - 8/9/2008 1:31:05 PM   
DomDolf


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Read OP only...

Any time you bring up edge play, of any type, there will be so many people jumping on you for asking about it that you might be startled by the attitudes. I am a firearms expert. I play edge play of several varieties, this is one of my favorites, especially combined with a rape fantasy. There are very safe and fool proof ways of creating the mental environment necessary to make gun play a success. I don't give away secrets on open forums because my current or future play partner may read and catch on to what I am doing. It's not a good mind f*** if there are clues to the precise safety level, IMO. You have to go as far as you want. The ultimate decision to proceed is yours. You better trust the person playing with you in this or any form of edge play.

Dolf

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Gun Play - 8/10/2008 9:39:38 AM   
antipode


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Hear, hear.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: Gun Play - 8/10/2008 1:03:52 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

personally speaking...... if it aint loaded live, it's no fun.

but I'm a sick bitch.



How does that play into the concept of trying it out on yourself before you try it on a sub...?   

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: Gun Play - 8/10/2008 1:05:22 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
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From: Savannah, GA
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Iguess I should have specified that I've always been the bottom in gunplay scenes ;) 

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Gun Play - 8/10/2008 2:11:28 PM   
patina


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I have not read every page only up though page 5 and have yet to see this.  I had a cousin when she was 14 accidently shoot her younger brother in the head.  she had been taught all about guns too, the gun was in one place the bullets in another, but she wanted to show off to a boyfriend.

I myself own 2 pistold and 2 shotguns.  My family is a gun family.  I have pointed a gun my 20 gage once at a human being.  He knew i woudf pull the trigger too.  It was to protect mysekf the man thought he could come in and beat me, he found out different.

Everyones kink is their own but playing with guns is just plain stupid and if something goes wrong 2 lives or more are affected.  you die or are seriously hurt the shooter serves jail time his family is emotionally, and financially hurt, because you wanted to play a dangerous game.  Go get some high voltage and play with it,

patina  

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a diamond in the rough

(in reply to GhitaAmati)
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RE: Gun Play - 8/12/2008 12:39:56 AM   
WizardOfDelphi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

I had a cousin when she was 14 accidently shoot her younger brother in the head.  she had been taught all about guns too, the gun was in one place the bullets in another, but she wanted to show off to a boyfriend.


Yeah, that's rather the point I was trying to make.  True, an unloaded gun won't kill anyone.  Unfortunately people are accidentally killed quite often by guns that the shooter believed to be unloaded!  Those who believe they are incapable of making this mistake are most certainly wrong.  The human mind is not a perfect instrument.

Oh, and to the individual who says his slave (or such) has informed his lawyers and the like just in case something bad does happen.  That won't make any difference.  The law will prosecute and they will most likely win.  Consent does not play in to the application of most laws.  They simply state that if X happens then its illegal, they don't say unless the person it happened to said it was ok.

Lastly, I did some checking around and it did not take long at all to find some totally safe alternatives to real guns.  They aren't even expensive!  How about an almost perfect replica of many guns that only fires blanks and has an internally plugged barrel, but looks completely real for something like $120!

http://www.filmsensei.com/2008/07/01/proptastic-a-look-at-prop-guns/

http://www.amazon.com/Shot-Blank-Detective-Nickel-Finish/dp/B00172VL9O?&camp=212361&creative=383957&linkCode=waf&tag=theniftynerd-20

http://www.tokyohobby.net/store/product_details.php?p=1007


If done well, the bottom need never know that the scene is being faked.  They can have the exact same experience of a real, loaded gun.  In fact, probably better.  Because with one of these you could take an obviously loaded clip, slam it into the gun and rack it so that there is a round in the chamber.  Only the top need know that the round is fake and the gun is safe.

(in reply to patina)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Gun Play - 8/12/2008 4:18:39 AM   
ResidentSadist


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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:::::::waves at greedy:::::::::::
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How can people bring silly loaded vs unloaded gun accident statistics into this?  We know the gun is loaded.  If someone gets shot, it’ll be intentional not because “I didn’t know the gun was loaded.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
…and with all that gun accident BS I say that if humans are so fallible, then to play in a way that you think a gun is unloaded when it might not be is all the more reason to keep ammo in it and always treat it with the deadly respect it deserves.   
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Guns don’t kill people, I do”
                          -some dwarf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I guess I am having trouble grasping the point of the SSC gang trying to disable the gun from firing to make gun play "safe"... that defeats the purpose of taking someone’s life into your hands.  It is role playing and fear is the goal.  Firing a round or two always helps the fear factor.    

If it is just safe role playing for kinksters, why file down firing pins?  Why don’t you go get a toy cap gun instead, that is much safer?  In fact, caps might be dangerous and loud, get a nice safe squirt gun… and so on and so on until you are holding a nerf toy.  You just won’t seem very believable threatening someone’s life with a nerf toy anymore than you would with gun that won’t fire.

However, the squirt gun could kick ass!  If you invert them and pulled a t-shirt over their face it could be like a mini waterboarding scene… oh wait, the OP was about “gun play” not SSC or waterboarding.   So in the spirit of the OP I give you this:

The reason we don’t disable the gun is so we can fire it and scare the crap out of someone.  The point of this scene and “gun play” is to put death in your face at an intense level.  Well, nothing hits harder than having a crazy ass sadist tell you how much he wants to shoot you while you have a sack over your head.  Then he rants about shooting you in places that won’t kill you quickly because he wants to watch you suffer… and he picks a nice long 10 count, while you’re being told you are going to be shot at the end of the count.   Then you hear the round fired off… you panic waiting for the pain and finally feel a burning hole in your thigh.  To your surprise the burning moves up and settles in your chest/tits as you realize that it was only the hot barrel pressed against you.  That will wake up even the most jaded masochist and put a puddle in their chair.  Imagine the feel of the hot barrel burning your tits as you are told that was just a “warning”.  I’m sure you can take it from there and follow up with oral, vaginal and anal penetrations until “happiness is a warm gun oh yeah yes it is”  - Beatles
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My BDSM fear based gun play experience is actually very mild, limited and consisted of one person.  Unfortunately, she happened to be a better shot than I was so it wasn’t something we explored often.  However, by inexplicable coincidence, I have had a fair bit of exposure using guns to generate fear in non BDSM environments.  I can tell you that if you press the edge of the barrel of the gun against someone when you fire it, the percussive jolt is almost as effective as shooting them for real.  Sticking a gun between someone’s legs and firing it so it kicks them in the crotch has made grown men crap themselves because they though their jewels got shot off.  Having a gun pressed anywhere against you when it is fired hurts like getting hit with a small hammer if the angle puts you on the receiving end of the kick. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So here is some of what I know about hand guns from my experience collecting and carrying them over the years. 

* Depending on the caliber, you need a lot of phone books to catch those spent rounds.  A 38 special takes about 4-6 large Detroit city sized phone books for the ball ammo, less for lead wad cutters. 

* Firing a gun in a closed room can do very bad things to both your hearing and your slaves.  You want to take her life in your hands not make her deaf.  Either custom load your ammo so it’s light on powder or fire through a big plastic pop bottle.  The bottle catches the expanding pressure and it vents slowly through the holes instead all at once in a percussive wave.  That cuts the volume down to nice safe levels.  That seems more practical than putting ear plugs in someone you are threatening to shoot. 

* Shooting through something like the heel of a cowboy boot, even though the bullet penetrates the heel, will still deflects the bullet to a degree so it ends up in a wall instead of the carefully placed phone books on the other side of the room. 

* I would imagine it is wise to conduct loud gun play somewhere the neighbors won’t be calling the police.  No telling what a cop would do if he saw you stuffing a hot gun barrel up the cunt of some chic hand cuffed to your kitchen chair.

* Last but not least, I can only presume that you ask about gun play because you are already trained in hand gun safety and combat.  If you don’t know the rules, you shouldn’t play with the tools.  Training isn’t that expensive and it takes a while to get comfortable with handguns.

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I give good thread.


(in reply to WizardOfDelphi)
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RE: Gun Play - 8/12/2008 5:11:11 PM   
AtlantisKing111


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No experience with them personally and no desire to.  Growing up in a rural area I saw my fair share of guns and what they can do to flesh and blood.  Granted, knives and needles and ropes and plastic bags and whips and all sorts of other things our community plays with can kill if things go wrong too, but gunshots are much harder to bounce back from, in general, when accidents occur.

(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 200
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