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Presumptuous protocol - 7/22/2005 11:27:46 PM

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On the subject of introductory emails containing dominant/submissive "posturing"... (ie, subs emailing femdoms "Dear Mistress," or using i/You protocol, or writing the entire email in a 'submissive' mode), I have a few questions.

For male dominants -- how often do female submissives contact you and call you Master (if it is not your screen name) or behave "as a submissive in role" in their email? What per cent on average?

For female dominants -- when you receive an email from a submissive that you do not know and he is clearly "posturing" as sub in the email (beyond just politeness -- he is calling you Mistress, etc.) how does it affect your perception of him?

1. You have a less positive impression of him, but won't write him off.
2. You are completely turned off -- NOT a CHANCE you will write back.
3. You don't care either way.
4. You are impressed and like it.

Which is it?

When you get an email from a male submissive that is written normal, like a friendly introduction, without submissive posturing, what is your impression?

Akasha

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RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/22/2005 11:40:39 PM

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When we get an e-mail calling me/us "ma'am" I ask that they not do it again, as I don't care for it - but I'm polite.

The whole C/cap thing bugs the crap out of me, so if they do that, I get a bit less polite, telling them that it looks like they are stuttering and it makes it hard to read (that is what it makes me think of ... someone who stutters).

As for someone calling me (or Holly) "Mistress" before we've told them it's ok ... the standard reply is "there are only two boys in the world allowed to call us that and you aren't one of them." If they do it again, they are ignored (pretty much no matter how long they have been talking to us - but we haven't had trouble with it after the first e-mail up until now, at least).

If someone is being himself when he messages, that is more impressive than any posturing/posing could ever be to us. It gives a sense that they aren't just a doormat waiting to be walked on, that they have standards and want to get to know someone before submitting to them. That is what we are looking for in a guy - someone who knows what he wants, and is willing to take the time to find the right person for him.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/22/2005 11:47:10 PM

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I'm not a Dominant, but I think I'd be a bit creeped out by a girl who calls me Master in the first e-mail. To be that term implies a relationship and a power exchange.

Doing that in an e-mail screams, "Hi. I'm clingy and bit psychotic."

(in reply to SweetDommes)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/22/2005 11:59:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
For female dominants -- when you receive an email from a submissive that you do not know and he is clearly "posturing" as sub in the email (beyond just politeness -- he is calling you Mistress, etc.) how does it affect your perception of him?

If it's overdone, I'll tell them that I seek a self-respecting person and that the posturing is not necessary, nor desired. When I see an email like this, I'll sigh a bit and ponder the value of responding, but usually I do. Most that do so are the inexperienced ones who truly believe that is what is expected of them.

I don't mind "Ma'am" at all because I do think the Ma'am and Sir honorofics are polite and kind, kink or vanilla. If they try to call me Mistress after they've been told it's not appropriate and even justify their right to do so (yeah, it's been done) then they'll get a prompt goodbye

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
When you get an email from a male submissive that is written normal, like a friendly introduction, without submissive posturing, what is your impression?

Now THAT's a person that I can have a great conversation, correspondence or possibly a relationship with. Oh to see more of those!

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 12:10:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow
I don't mind "Ma'am" at all because I do think the Ma'am and Sir honorofics are polite and kind, kink or vanilla.

I know - that's why I'm polite about it. I just cringe inside any time I'm called "ma'am" ... it makes me feel like an old schoolmarm. And they can't know until I tell them. The "Mistress" thing though ... there are so many of us who are clear that only our collared subs are allowed to call us that, I find it hard to believe that guys still do it without permission.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 1:31:55 AM

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I have maybe one in four first contact fem/subs address me as "Sir".... I don't really like it but accept it's done out of respect and I politely ask them to use my name, which I give in my first reply.

I've only ever had one (very young) sub greet me with "Master", which really did peeve me but I was still polite in putting her straight....

Focus50.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 7:11:40 AM

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The smell of desperation has always been a turn off to me. Polite is good-obessive shows me a potential nutcase is writing me.

Not a good way to begin.

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 10:32:10 AM

sudja

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I can take it a step further, and annoy probably more than one or two folks here, but alas, sometimes that 'just must be....

What about those who include the word "Mistress" or "Master" in their name here, or an online nick. I strip that out, no problem - but there are those who take offense or, while professing understanding, "suggest" that if I "can't" use "Mistress" (or "Master") add a "Ms" or a "Ma'am" or a "Sir."

When I'm done laughing (to myself) I note that they have missed the point.

In other words, I very much agree with you, but this illegitimate "protocol" exists on all ends of the scale.

sudja

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 10:40:34 AM

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I know - people are silly ... I would never use "Mistress" "Goddess" or anything like that in a screen name (unless I'm out trolling for idiots to toy with ... but I'd never do that *tries to look innocent*). I have some friends who do though, and it always strikes me as ... being desparate to annouce who they are (not the best wording, but the best I can come up with at the moment). We do have "Domme" in our screen name, but it's because the name was given to us. I figure if someone feels the need to call us something else after they have gotten to know us then that's great as long as it isn't something that we hate (our current favorite potential who reappeared about the same time S turned into an ass calls us "My Lady" when he talks to us), but to start off with the expectation that everyone will refer to us by some title is a bit ridiculous.

(in reply to sudja)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 12:22:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

On the subject of introductory emails containing dominant/submissive "posturing"... (ie, subs emailing femdoms "Dear Mistress," or using i/You protocol, or writing the entire email in a 'submissive' mode), I have a few questions.

For male dominants -- how often do female submissives contact you and call you Master (if it is not your screen name) or behave "as a submissive in role" in their email? What per cent on average?

1. You have a less positive impression of him, but won't write him off.
2. You are completely turned off -- NOT a CHANCE you will write back.
3. You don't care either way.
4. You are impressed and like it.

Which is it?

I would say maybe 2/5 to half of the email I get from female submissives involves them calling me Master or Sir from the start. It seems to be most prevalent among the more inexperienced who are trying very hard to make a good first impression and aren't sure quite how to behave. In other words, most of the inexperienced do so, most of those who are more experienced and/or older do not, with goreans being the exception (they always do it). If they call me Master I correct them about it and instruct them to either use my name or Sir. Being from the South, using Sir is common courtesy when dealing with someone you respect, so in my case its as much cultural as anything to do with the lifestyle. It does impress me when someone makes an effort to be polite, even if they over do it. I'd rather they over do it than not try. I've rarely had a case where I felt a female submissive was posturing, though I've had plenty that were just plain dishonest. I've rarely dealt with male submissives (not my thing), this seems to be a bigger problem with them judging by the amount of discussion it seems to generate. Regardless, of whether a submissive calls me Sir or Master, it does not "turn me off". It will annoy me if I correct them and they don't change their behavior. Someone who asks how they should address me and about other protocols in their first contact does make a good impression.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 12:53:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sudja
What about those who include the word "Mistress" or "Master" in their name here, or an online nick.
<snip>
In other words, I very much agree with you, but this illegitimate "protocol" exists on all ends of the scale.

I do agree. It makes me laugh, shake my head, grumble a bit, and then I walk away. I think it's quite arrogant in a lot of people. (Oh, trust me, I understand that for many people it's a joke.) When a shiny-brand-newbie walks in the door and introduces themself as Master so-and-so or Mistress-so-and-so, it seems to validate all of the cliche's and falsities of the lifestyle being a playground.

I actually had a woman contact me online a few years back and wanted help choosing her "Mistress name" so that she could introduce herself on our local list appropriately. This was a woman who "discovered" that she was a Domme two weeks earlier and "had just finished reading the Mistress Manual, so now she was ready-to-dive in." Yeah, those are all her words. I about died, but through trial-by fire, it all ended up well. She phased out of the lifestyle when she didn't get instant reverence. (Which is another point to make)

I try to avoid any honorifics in my own name, but for some reason with Purrmeow people think I'm a man (and I'm completely lost as to how the name seems masculine). I added the Ms just to keep people straight. I abhor the term "Mistress" before a collar and a contract, or at least an establishment of a relationship.

(in reply to sudja)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 1:09:13 PM

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I don't find it arrogant for it to be used in a screenname...so long as they don't expect to be called by it by someone who doesn't belong to them.

Obviously, I'm not a dominant, but my owner has shared with me from time to time his feelings on the topic...lol. He finds it beyond presumptuous for someone he does not own to address him as master and its not generally something he will allow to pass without addressing it. With regard to being called sir...if someone has gotten to know him and wishes to call him sir, he considers it an honor....however he would never ask it of someone.

Great thread Aakasha.

best regards,
fate

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 1:11:20 PM

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in my opinion, any sub/slave that has done any type of real reasearch would know better than to call a Dom or Domme Master or Mistress from the first e-mail even if they had never talked to one before ..everything i have ever read list some sort of protocol for this and most clearly state that those titles are normally reserved for collared subs?slaves of theat Dom or Domme..
I do however call all Doms or Dommes Sor or Ma'am unless otherwise told as i feel it is a respect I owe them .. also being inthe south I was raised to say Sir and Ma'am to everyone i respected until they proved they didn't desearve it.

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 1:11:45 PM

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I really don't belive nor care for the existance of a one and only BDSM protocol. I don't think that every submissive at every event has to address every dom as Sir or Maam and such. If couples in there profile want to type Wwe and Uus in chats and there profiles then it dosne't bother me. But I don't expect them to. I see the extra typeing and capitalizing stuff as a waste of time. After all, time is FUCKING! or atleast getting to know each other better. Why ppl get booted on such fribulous typeing in chats is unkown to me other than just seeing a Mod get a power trip out of the deal. I swear that some ppl just take things way to seriously for there own good and just become anti social because of it.

So I just expect politeness or common curtosy as I introduce myself with a friendly attitude, TX firm handshake, and a smile. Just because I walk in as the BIG BAD DOM dosen't make anyone servient to me except the one who is on my leash. If anyone wants to call me out as being a phoney, fraud, and fake because of some code of speaking or typeing, just invite pet and I over and we'll show you who the real fakes are.

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RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 10:29:49 PM

SadisticPrincess

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I have Mistress in my main aol name, mainly as a search engine ID, and to let my orientation be known. In these parts (Detroit) introducing someone as Master or Mistress seems to be used as just that, a form of ID. Actually, I do not care to be called "mistress", but I am not offended by it. I have been a ma'am since I was 12 or so.........I have a younger (30) friend who is *outraged* to be called ma'am, since it reminds her of Jessica Tandy.

I would say that most of the male subs refer to me as mistress when they write, and if they are just being respectful, that's fine. It can be challenging enough to approach a domme, I try to give the nice ones some slack in the beginning.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 11:30:27 PM

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I don't like it at all.
Its also often assumed that because I'm female and listed as a switch, that I should be addressed as submissive.
People who make initial contact like that are not likely to get a response from me.

I would much rather receive an email from a "regular" person, without assuming a role.

I do not feel compelled to respond to Doms I don't know in submissive posturing, because I am not collared to them. Simple as that.

(in reply to SadisticPrincess)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/23/2005 11:43:10 PM

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How I'm addressed is a basic IQ test for me. It's nice to know that a sub has at least read my nick and understood my term of choice, not just looked at the pictures. But that being said, [and maybe I'm in a better mood these days because I'm *not* looking, lol] I figure everyone does the best he/she can, and see it as just one piece of information about them.

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RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/24/2005 1:19:00 AM

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From what I have read here... it would seem that if somebody COULD figure out the protocol that works for EVERYBODY... Domme to Domme... Dom to Dom.. it would be a huge accomplishment.

I must agree Master and Mistress is a bit presumptuous. However people that contact you with sincere intentions and do not use your "proper" titles, may just prove to be an opportunity lost.

I think the overall message of the mail should be looked at - how is the response? is it genuine? does this person make an attempt?

... forget all of the titles, caps and every other superficial thing

(in reply to Misstoyou)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/24/2005 10:16:39 AM

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The problem with "forget[ing] all of the titles, caps and every other superficial thing" is that a lot of the messages we get are one-liners ... sometimes as little as "hello Mistress(es)" - so what else can I judge by?

(in reply to lachlann)

RE: Presumptuous protocol - 7/24/2005 10:58:00 AM

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This an easy one for me. The sub/slaves who email me and already know me usually address me as Master Bear, Master Ion Bear ( a few kajirae who know me well may even address me as Vanashae Iron Bear). The sub/slaves who don’t know me most often address me as Iron Bear/IB Sir. One or two will open the email with “Sir” ….. As long as its reasonably respectful I don’t have an exacting expectation for those not in my collar.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/24/2005 11:37:57 AM >

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(in reply to SweetDommes)

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