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Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/25/2005 9:36:35 AM

perverseangelic

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For one of his education classes, my partner is doing a debate on abstience-only sex ed. He has to argue for it. Genearlly, we find it easy to argue the possition opposite to the one we hold, however, in this case, as we batted back and forth possible ideas, we found it nearly impossible.

I went thorugh a school system that taught abstience only. I thought that I was doing pretty ok, because my parents taught me outside of school and gave me accurate information. I was pretty much the person who gave the least biased information to my friends.

I didnt' realize just how much missinformation I'd recieved.

I thought, honestly and untill yesterday, that condoms were almost totally ineffective at preventing the spread of HIV. I knew that they helped stop it, and encouraged everyone I knew to wear them, in the off chance it was helpful, but I had been taugh that "condoms had pores large enough to let the HIV virus through easily." It was what I was told over and over when learning aobut safer sex.

What the people teaching me didn't say was that that is LAMBSKIN condoms. My partner told me yesterday that latex condoms, unless broken or punctured, are almost totally impenetrable by the HIV virus.

~sigh~
I appologize for the long ramble, but I feel almost betrayed by my teachers and educators. You'd think their job is to provide accurate information, not scare otherwise thinking people into stupid acts through missinformation.

So:
Abstience only sex-ed.
Discuss.

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~in the begining it is always dark~

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/25/2005 10:21:39 AM

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Mmm you're going to be hard pressed to find supporting information. I know my students were trying to fill in those educational gaps on their own by asking their friends... which is where such brilliant statements as "I didn't think I could get pregnant, we're not married" or "you can't get an STD from giving head" come from. One of my other favorites is "lesbians can't get STDs."

I can't think of a single student I've worked with that ever benefited from an abstinence-only sex-ed course... the downfall is that they often feel the need to find out for themselves.

I suppose one way you could argue for it is if they actually learned the TRUTH about how diseases are transmitted or how women are impregnated, and THEN pitched the abstinence angle as the only way to avoid those consequences. But I don't know if being that thorough counts as abstinence-only education...

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/25/2005 11:06:12 AM

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Obviously this abstinence-only stuff is related to the creationism and intelligent-design movements. We should have seen it coming. Ten or twenty years ago, when the Religious Right was first organizing itself, they made a conscious and shrewd decision to start at the school-board level. Now they're getting their harvest.

(in reply to wednesday)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/25/2005 11:16:55 AM

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Think think...reasons FOR abstinence-only education...

It focuses people on the RELATIONSHIP and not the sex

It shows a standard of behavior which the community believes should be incorporated into their youth

It helps people learn to appreciate their own choices and selves rather than worry about life issues they aren't prepared for

I guess that's a good start. I personally feel that abstinence-only education is ridiculous. But debate is all about learning those skills of convincingly presenting a side of an issue, no matter what your own feelings are. :)

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/25/2005 4:23:51 PM

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Well, if you really want to play devil's advocate, there is only one argument for abstinence-only sex education:

Abstinence is the only surefire way to prevent STD's and unwanted pregnancies.

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RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/25/2005 8:39:11 PM

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No religious groups will protest the curriculum.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/25/2005 8:50:15 PM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

No religious groups will protest the curriculum.

But many secular ones will. I don't think it's a "real" advantage.

We've also ruled out all the stuff that relies on mistaken information, misleading statistics and suchlike.

Wednesday--
Your quotes made my partner snort water onto the moniter when I read them to him.

Emerald--
You came up with about the same ones as we did over here. We're stuck at anything more than that, though, and I can refute every single point. argh.

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RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/25/2005 9:10:03 PM

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Heh... I got a million of them. Junior high and high school kids are verrrrrry creative.

Other highlights:

"Oh no, Jimmy is the baby's daddy."
"Well how can you be sure?"
"He had the biggest dick."

"How can I get herpes if I spit?"

"no you stupid, you can't get AIDS from a lesbian. They don't come. Duh."

the list just keeps on going...

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/27/2005 3:30:29 PM

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really, i'm of the opinion that some sort of harmony should be reached

another thing to consider, in addition to those already mentioned, is that abstinence-only sex-ed prevents teachers from trying to terrorize their students into behaving by providing misinformation.. since they are not allowed to present any information aside from abstaining.

(not that this actually happens, but i've bs'ed my way through more than one assignment ;D )

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/27/2005 4:55:45 PM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: haematopoiesis

another thing to consider, in addition to those already mentioned, is that abstinence-only sex-ed prevents teachers from trying to terrorize their students into behaving by providing misinformation.. since they are not allowed to present any information aside from abstaining.

Wow. I think that the programs you've seen are DRASTICALY different then mine. The missinformation you're talking about was built right into the program. In fact, this is the case in most programs I've studied. For example, of the 13 most commonly used textbooks for AO, 11 have verifiable factual errors.

For kids who are taught this method, the ones that are terrorised are the ones whose parents provided them accurate information. I was a scapegoat in my classes, because I knew the -truth- in a lot of cases. Terrorizing goes the other way. The lies are sanctioned by the curriculum, so teachers don't need to come up with them on their own.

Here are some errors that either I was taught or have compiled in research. (I'll cite if you like, but am just not feelin' it right now.)
# Half of gay male teenagers in the U.S. have tested positive for the AIDS virus.

# HIV can be transmitted through sweat and tears.

# Chlamydia causes heart disease.

# In relationships, women need "financial support," while men need "admiration." And "Women gauge their happiness and judge their success on their relationships. Men's happiness and success hinge on their accomplishments."One commonly used book tells the story of a village princess who offers a knight too much advice on dragon slaying, driving him into the arms of a quieter, more subservient maiden.

# Mutual masturbation can lead to pregnancy.

# Abortion causes sterility and suicide.

#Touching another person's genitals "can result in pregnancy."

#Birth controll is EXACTLy the same as abortion.

And so on and so on and so on.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

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RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/27/2005 6:12:50 PM

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Believe it or not, I was taught all of those things (and more) in my high school health class.

I was actually taught that:

1. Any and every homosexual person (male or female) had AIDS. Period.
2. If you had sex, your were going to get an STD. Period.
3. Kissing could give you an STD
4. If you let someone touch your genitals you would get an infection

I was also taught that dancing led to prostitution and rape and that contact with males at any time was likely to cause rape. I went to a co-ed school, but the classes were seperated.

< Message edited by siamsa24 -- 7/27/2005 6:13:40 PM >

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/27/2005 7:07:04 PM

perverseangelic

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Nice. I got some of those, but not all of 'em. After all, we fought the legal battle and had a gay-straight alliance at our school. THOSE PEOPLE couldn't -all- have AIDS if they were on the campus.

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RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/27/2005 7:09:54 PM

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Anyone at my school who was foolish enough to admit to being gay or bisexual was expelled. It was "unnatural and against the will of God"

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/28/2005 12:39:25 PM

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From: the land of oaks
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Well pah! That's not teaching only abstinence.

So teach abstinence + the proper information and everyone can be forearmed and forewarned

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: haematopoiesis

another thing to consider, in addition to those already mentioned, is that abstinence-only sex-ed prevents teachers from trying to terrorize their students into behaving by providing misinformation.. since they are not allowed to present any information aside from abstaining.

Wow. I think that the programs you've seen are DRASTICALY different then mine. The missinformation you're talking about was built right into the program. In fact, this is the case in most programs I've studied. For example, of the 13 most commonly used textbooks for AO, 11 have verifiable factual errors.

For kids who are taught this method, the ones that are terrorised are the ones whose parents provided them accurate information. I was a scapegoat in my classes, because I knew the -truth- in a lot of cases. Terrorizing goes the other way. The lies are sanctioned by the curriculum, so teachers don't need to come up with them on their own.

Here are some errors that either I was taught or have compiled in research. (I'll cite if you like, but am just not feelin' it right now.)
# Half of gay male teenagers in the U.S. have tested positive for the AIDS virus.

# HIV can be transmitted through sweat and tears.

# Chlamydia causes heart disease.

# In relationships, women need "financial support," while men need "admiration." And "Women gauge their happiness and judge their success on their relationships. Men's happiness and success hinge on their accomplishments."One commonly used book tells the story of a village princess who offers a knight too much advice on dragon slaying, driving him into the arms of a quieter, more subservient maiden.

# Mutual masturbation can lead to pregnancy.

# Abortion causes sterility and suicide.

#Touching another person's genitals "can result in pregnancy."

#Birth controll is EXACTLy the same as abortion.

And so on and so on and so on.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/28/2005 12:59:28 PM

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Oh, God..... I am so sorry that this is a true agenda. The Volstead act of sexuality.
What possible good can come of this. Let them play with PlayStations and XBoxes and have any toy they want, then teach them the virtue of abstinance.......

What are we doing to the children? I thought that my parents wanted me to have better than they had growing up, sure mistakes are made, and I want better for mine than I had.

I don't know what people want other than to destroy a generation to feed this fucking drivel to them. I am ashamed for those people.

Ron

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RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/28/2005 9:04:18 PM

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As a PE teacher back in the late 1960's I was required to teach health inclucing a segment on sex ed. All I taught were the facts on how a baby was conceived and how STDs were transmitted, but this was before AIDs was prevalent. I don't even remember any discussion on homosexuality.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

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RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/28/2005 9:06:34 PM

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Times sure have changed. In my sex-ed class, the teacher demonstrated how to apply a condom using a cucumber as a prop.

I masturbated a lot fantasizing about that teacher.

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RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/28/2005 9:11:28 PM

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quote:

In my sex-ed class, the teacher demonstrated how to apply a condom using a cucumber as a prop.

Glad i didn't have to do that, condoms were almost unheard of back then.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/28/2005 9:12:19 PM

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This was ca. 1985.

Edited to add: Hey, I'm wicked now.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 7/28/2005 9:13:11 PM >

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RE: Abstience-only sex ed. - 7/28/2005 9:35:38 PM

perverseangelic

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Wow. You were so lucky.

We got "condoms have pores that are big enough for HIV virus to pass through."

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~in the begining it is always dark~

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