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RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 4:16:58 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
So this then led me to think about what 'right's' i feel i do have in my relationship. It came down to the only right i have or want is the one to leave if things are not right, not repairable and there is no other option. I only see this as a right because i am an unowned slave, for me its a whole new ball game when owned. But thats not what this thread is about.
 
I'm curious as to what other sub's /slaves etc think their rights are?
Also curious what rights Dom's/ Domme's etc see there sub's / slave's as having?


What are the rights of a slave?   What is established between the individuals of a given relationship!  There is no universal answer.

For me specifically... My girls have the one right.... To choose to be in the relationship or not!  The reasons they did and do choose to be in a relationship is another issue all together as is a choice of not being in the relationship.

Erin stated "I have the right to seek happiness and fulfillment....and the right to remove myself from any situation that does not further me in that pursuit."  To me seeking happiness and fulfillment is not a right... but a prequiste of making a specific choice.  What I see is that it's Erin's right to make the choice in the first place.  Why she makes that choice to be or remover herself is not as important as she having the right to make the choice in the first place. 

For my girls... They have the right to choose.  Now as a person involved with them.. I care about the choice they make.  Since it is my motivation to have them in my life.  I need to understand why they Choose to be in my life.  The reasons they would make this choice must be something that can be substained.  For myself... being with me because they are happy and are fulfilled is not a deep enough reason.  I need to understand why they are happy and fulfilled with me.  In the end,  it was very important that they choose to be in a relationship because they value who I am.  The only thing I have control over is being ME.  If it's being Me that allows them to choose to be in this relationship.. then I am empowered to keep in my life because all I need to do is be ME.  The Key of course is ensuring that before they made such a decision they had a complete understanding and awareness of who I am.

The flip side of course is that I also have the Right to choose.  It was equally important that I know them as deeply as possible.  That I know the authentic person so that I can choose to have or not have them in my life.  I suppose this line of thought is why integrity is such an important character trait to me.




(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 4:22:59 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I don't feel the discourse of "rights" is valid when it comes to intimate relationships unless the relationship is between legally married persons because only between married persons is there a legal apparatus to enforce those rights though enforcement only comes up when the relationship falls apart and one is figuring grounds for divorce (neglect, abandonment, infidelity etc... translate into a right to certain kinds of attention, time spent with spouse and fidelity etc...).  Beyond that, we all have our rights as citizens or residents garunteed by whatever government we live under but they don't typically apply to the content of interpersonal relationships.

As a slave, I have no rights within the relationship.  But, this is no different from being a friend, a lover, or casual acquaintence.   I'm not entitled to anything from a friend, not their time, attention, consideration or energy.  If they choose to give those things, I may come to value their friendship but that in no way means I am entitled to any of those things.   If they choose not to give those things, I may  stop valuing their friendship and and withdraw my time, attention, consideration and energy from the relationship.  It would be a matter of deciding the relationship is not worth the effort to maintain particularly if the relationship has become too one-sided.  I see the relationship between Master and slave as being about the same (I'm assuming, for the sake of discussion, that M and s are unmarried).  Its not a matter of rights, but of mutual effort on both sides.  So long as the Master keeps mastering and the slave keeps slaving, the relationship is a viable one, in at least a minimal way. 


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 4:52:29 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
I'm curious as to what other sub's /slaves etc think their rights are?

Ok, I'm too tired to get into the whole rights/privileges/etc. argument but I will throw in what my "rights" are in our relationship.  I can't make a comprehensive list but the bottom line is that I have the right to be free from harm or abuse.  Before anyone gets into a debate over what harm or abuse is, please don't.  It's irrelevant.  Master and I have our own definitions of what we agree is "harm" and "abuse."  Things that fall into those categories are unacceptable. 

I have said before that I have been made to understand that Master will never be responsible for doing anything to me that makes me "less than" what I was when He met me or "less than" what I have since become.  He doesn't desire to degrade or diminish me. 

In addition, I have the right to all of the needs mentioned in Maslow's hierarchy and all basic life needs (air, food, water, shelter, etc.).  Upon entering this relationship together, it was well established that I won't be deprived of any needs (not wants) or harmed or damaged in any way (physically, mentally, emotionally, etc.).  In addition, I have the right to contact with my family.  That was established in the beginning.  That is how it works in this relationship.............luci

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To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: I have the Right!!! - 10/5/2007 6:02:16 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

If I understand you correctly, even if FirmhandKY were to promise to -never- deny you the freedom to speak your mind about his decisions, and subsequently broke that promise, your trust in him wouldn't change.


You misunderstand, Bob, and I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote.

My trust is based on who FirmhandKy is and what I know of him.  That trust is the basis for my surrendering authority to him but is not my guarantee (or his promise) that he will always allow my rights to go unchanged. 

Yes, if he were to make a promise such as that to me and then subsequently broke it, there would be a breach of trust and we would both have to deal with the consequences of that. 

But my point was that trust does not create a guarantee.  For all intents and purposes, rights and privileges are pretty much the same thing.  You don't have a promise unless you get a promise... then you have a guarantee.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 10/5/2007 6:03:16 PM >

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 6:29:46 PM   
shadowmate


Posts: 10
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline 		Well if the definition of ' slave ' is looked up you will find a couple of meanings, here are two...

1.
a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.

2.
a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug.
 
To me a slave has absolutely no rights except for those gifted to them by whom ever owns that person.  I mean look back to when slavery was legal, what rights did those poor people have?  
 
I was just told something by someone on what I stated above, there is a difference between consenual slavery and forced, and this is true.

Granted, everyone does have a right to be happy, and everyone has a right to be treated with respect and to recieve honesty.  These are about the only things that I personally believe a ' slave ' has a right to unless other wise stated by said persons owner.  This is partly why I claim to be more of a submissive and not a slave.
 
I also want to point out that the ' honesty ' thing, what I mean is dont tell someone one thing but be lying about it.  A slave does not need to be told anything, neither does a submissive, nor anyone for that matter, but if something is said, then one should be completely truthful.

< Message edited by shadowmate -- 10/5/2007 6:41:59 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 8:27:30 PM   
LostMyself


Posts: 72
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		not to be permanently physically or psychologically damaged.  whether scars count depends.

(in reply to littlebitxxx)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 9:44:28 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne

prop, i think you have one of the most humble souls on this site....but the words i highlighted in red hit me so hard.....they make me want to rescue you-and i know you dont need rescuing.........

i would have left to go to my family-had he chosen to try to stop me, i would have done whatever it took to get out of the house......

i still want to rescue you, please forgive me for that........i know you are content with your lot in life......and may very well have a kind of peace i can only dream of.....but things like that just make me want to scream arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Seeks...it all depends on your perspective doesn't it? for some, family is their top priority in life and supercedes anything else including a personal relationship. however once i became a slave, my Master became my first priority, without exception. this was something i understood beforehand, so it was not a shock although there were certainly some growing pains along the way. rather than view him as a cruel Master for not allowing me to see my family when my grandmother passed away, i am grateful for the fact that he permitted the contact (however limited) with relatives in the first place, otherwise i never would have found out. for the first year+ of living together, my life was heavily isolated and i was permitted no contact of any kind with anyone from my pre-slave life. in time he allowed monthly phone calls and occasional visits...he did not have to do this. this provided no benefit for him, he did it simply because he loves me and wished to do a kindness.

as for the idea of disobeying him and just going off wherever anyway...that's not something that would ever cross my mind. first there are the practical issues: i don't drive, don't go anyplace on my own, no one would have been able to come and get me nor would i have been able to contact anyone in the first place as he heavily monitored and tightly restricted all my outside communications (phone, mail, internet) at the time. but much more significant than these things, i had fully accepted my place in life as his property and him as the ruler of my destiny. imho one only considers things like blatant disobedience or going against the Master's will when there is some piece of them that does not fully accept themselves as owned and wishes to hold back just a bit for themselves.

(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 10:45:29 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think I try to keep it simple and say we have whatever rights we choose to hold for ourselves- sometimes we must sadly hold them by force. 

For me this includes things such as no expectation of monogamy, the right to be true to one's self and actively seek experiences which bring one closer to one's self, the right to die as they wish, and so on.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: I have the right!! - 10/5/2007 10:48:16 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		In reading all of these posts this is the only one I agree with.

Even the ones that state they have the right to stay or leave, I do not agree with. If the Master and slave are of the right fit, and the Master has the strength of will, then the slave will suspend their rights, and it is no longer a choice. It is my way and there is no highway. When you start making contracts or negotiations, then both parties are slaves to the conditions of that contract, and the will of the Master is placed secondary. Before begging a collar a slave should know the person they are begging. When taking ownership of property, the Master should know about the property they are taking responsibility for. After this, it is the Master's will. No conditions, no safe words, nothing except natural order between the two involved.

If I decide to give my property privileges, there are just that and they are not rights. I can take those privileges away when ever I wish.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: LostMyself

not to be permanently physically or psychologically damaged.  whether scars count depends.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to LostMyself)
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RE: I have the right!! - 10/6/2007 12:00:17 AM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

If the Master and slave are of the right fit, and the Master has the strength of will, then the slave will suspend their rights, and it is no longer a choice. It is my way and there is no highway.

This is almost verbatim what my Master has said to me...it works for us...it makes us one.....


_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
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(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: I have the right!! - 10/6/2007 1:28:10 AM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		With a new slave, I explain to them that they have to right to leave at any time, and that I will see them safely home (or to some other safe place if we live together). Everything else is to be negotiated.

(in reply to littlebitxxx)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: I have the Right!!! - 10/6/2007 1:54:06 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Yes, if he were to make a promise such as that to me and then subsequently broke it, there would be a breach of trust and we would both have to deal with the consequences of that. 

But my point was that trust does not create a guarantee.  For all intents and purposes, rights and privileges are pretty much the same thing.  You don't have a promise unless you get a promise... then you have a guarantee.


I'm glad we've arrived at a point of agreement, Treasure, for this is what I've been saying in my own (obviously clumsy) way.

I agree that the trust does not create a guarantee. It is the faithful observance of the guarantee (amongst many other things) that helps to nurture the trust.

The "rights" I speak of within an M/s relationship are those guarantees: the promises given.

They cannot be revoked, unilaterally and without just cause, by the one who gave the promise without damaging the trust that sustains the relationship.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: I have the right!! - 10/6/2007 7:18:51 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Negotiation? Sounds more like a contract between two people. Slaves are property, valuable property, but it is the will of the Master that captures them and keeps them. Not some words spoken or written on paper. I would call that servitude, not slavery.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: obis

With a new slave, I explain to them that they have to right to leave at any time, and that I will see them safely home (or to some other safe place if we live together). Everything else is to be negotiated.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to obis)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: I have the Right!!! - 10/6/2007 7:38:48 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

With All this talk about rights, what if one wanted the right to not be Happy!  What if one wanted the right to Sad or some other emotion.

Seriously though rights or privelages, whatever label you stick on this.  Be it liberties or freedoms.   Somebody mentioned something about abilitity.  

First and forement, legally we have a measure of rights, liberty or privileges.  Provided to us by the laws of our Country, Region or local we live in.

Now let's examine the food chain here for a moment.   There is reality of formal law governing both the master and slave.   I don't care if a slave has claimed she wavied all her human legal rights on paper or whatever.   It's not changed the law that is governing both the master and slave.   Should the slave decide one day, she wishes to excercise her legal right, it over rides the Masters rules, laws, wishes, wants, demands or whatever label.  Rights or Privilages or Liberties or Freedoms?  Laws or Rules?  Come on here it's basically one in the same.   Sorry folks hate to break it to you, but a Slave in a Master/slave relationship in the United States of America, has the RIGHT (under the law that is more authorative than Masters rules) to get up and walk out the door.   Yes, the reality is that there are those who are actually More Authoritive than Master.  Pretending anything else, is well just living life fully in fantasy and not reality itself.


I agree with this.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” – Declaration of Independence

That is why a lot of this is theoretical semantics. Rights, ability to, vows, responsibilities, privileges and what other terms people want to use people in healthy relationships are getting most/enough of their needs and strong desires met. So I have this or can get this taken away semantics is just that because we as human being do as I call the chapter title “one right to leave” but the truth is we enter in these relationships and even the most severe control ones the day to day and long term works because of mutual desire in the way of life and compatibility.

Our rights as free human beings are there in a consensual M/s relationship even if we pretend a dominant has power over them. I do not mean this to be some magical clause that makes all power exchange relationships truly mirages but point out many of our basic rights we think we are giving up we are not, we just happen to pick a person who is strongly aligned, mutually trust and love enough for them not to trample on.

So regardless of the term you want to phrase it, being relatively happy with someone is something that is just has to be present in a healthy relationship and not something another can consciously give away or take from someone and expect to still have a healthy relationship.



As I noted in my earlier post to you, the quote I have boldened above is a quote about which legal scholars continue to argue...first, because it is a more eloquent way of saying "Because we say so..." to which many reply "and just who the hell are YOU?" and second, because not all believe in a Creator and if they do not believe, does that mean that they do not have these same "rights"?

Note also that while the Founders declared that all men had the right to "liberty", I wonder how many of the black men alive during those times felt that?  How many women?  How many indentured white men?  Also, please note that they state the "pursuit of happiness", not happiness itself. 

While it may all be semantics, this is why when someone states that they "have a right to...pick-your-abstract-concept", my answer is usually along the lines of "who gave you that right?"

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: I have the Right!!! - 10/6/2007 7:51:12 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amelliagrace

Fast reply:

This thread is an extremely interesting read.  I appreciate reading everyone's thoughts on the subject.

Speaking for myself only:
I have the right to...
1.  Know in reasonable detail the code by which a prospective Master lives his life, AND
2.  after becoming his, to be dealt with in accordance with that code.  (IOW, don't tell me that you consider pedophilla to be wrong, and then ask me to look the other way while you commit it, or to participate.  Don't say you don't believe poly relationships are against your belief and practice, and then decided to bring 2 other submissives into the day to day mix.)
3.  I have the right to run like hell if ordered to do anything which places me in danger of loss of life, serious physical harm, that violates the code mentioned in #1.
 
-grace


Nice answer.

(in reply to amelliagrace)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: I have the Right!!! - 10/6/2007 11:41:52 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Wow, so many posts whilst i was working.
I didn't realise this topic was so 'debatable' if im honest.
Thank you.

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(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: I have the Right!!! - 10/6/2007 2:48:54 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		The person in custody must, prior to interrogation, be clearly informed that he or she has the right to remain silent, and that anything the person says may be used against that person in court; the person must be clearly informed that he or she has the right to consult with an attorney and to have that attorney present during questioning, and that, if he or she is indigent, an attorney will be provided at no cost to represent him or her.

(in reply to missturbation)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: I have the right!! - 12/5/2007 2:20:07 PM   
lovethewhip


Posts: 6
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you luci that was very helpful.

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: I have the right!! - 12/5/2007 2:23:15 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		You are most welcome.  Anytime..........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to lovethewhip)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: I have the right!! - 12/5/2007 4:29:28 PM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		I like Maslow.  I like the hierarchy of needs, because his key thing is time out. You don't get to acquire an arm chair philosophy unless you can afford the chair with an arm and the time to sit in it.

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
Profile   Post #: 120
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