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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 2:02:04 AM   
Bobkgin


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Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

please God, don't let this go to his head.....



Not much chance of that Chelle.

Credit where its due: I had many friends and family offering me such advice because I couldn't help those I love as much as I wanted to.

I'm just passing on the wisdom. I didn't invent it.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 5:03:52 AM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

please God, don't let this go to his head.....

ditto on what Bob said...



bloddy hell chelle.......something 's happened  here....and that's cheered me up

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 5:07:30 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

What you really want is to cure her, and since you can't, you are feeling guilty for her situation.



I know and I had just come to the computer crying to post some more when I read this.
And i do.........crying loads because you know there's something deep inside that makes me want to cure everyone and i can't can i? And there's just so much, just so much pain out there. It really hits home when it hits home..
It's been a spitritual day..........

(in reply to Bobkgin)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 5:30:14 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Yep it's been a spirtual day....
During this week so many pleople i have scened with have just up and out of the blue been in touch. The irony of this wek is that at the moment of course i can't get out and play or see anyone. I'm kind of trapped waiting for my sister's emergency appointment when she will need me to take her to hospital. I am kind of trapped waiting for my new love of two weeks ago to come back from holiday also. In truth I am trusting that one (just like i always trust) that the 'holiday' wasn't just a ruse because in reality he doesn't want to see me again.
BUT each day hads been a minor miracle. A dear girl friend has gone to S. Africa and has given me her car. I need a new one which I cannot but until the end of next month. 'C' has left long messages on msn professing passion and saying we are equal in passion and he is very involved in the bdsm scene here, amazing Dom and I did not know he felt like this. 'C' (why do so many men I know have names that begin with C?) texts and sends pics all night and needs to see me. And 'D', whose name is deleted from my phone keeps on texting to the point where old feelings return and although I text fuck off and leave me alone, I have to foregive him in my heart for the sudden rejection he did 6 months ago. A friend gave me cookies at work. Another friend a bag of potting plants for the garden,. Yet another friend invited my 'girlfirend' gay man and I arounf for wine last night. He cut her hair in the middle of her jewellery shop; we had a lock in I drank a great deal in less than an hour, and broke all my rules about drinking,....hence the downer and the guilt in the early hours no doubtand hence all the tears today probably....and then whilst shopping another parent rushed across the car park and handed me a beautiful bottle of wine for looking after his daughter at sleep overs.......I drew a tarot card for myself also early this morning....I don;t often do it....and it was The Wheel of Fortune....welll what goes aro8und comes around, and everything gets speeded up and can leave one spinning out...these are its meanings...so true......
spiritual? becasue I needed to look and the love and the pasion and the acts of kindness and yes learn to trust(yet again0 that what goes around comes around and I am truly supported even when the guilt is unbearable. At least i can walk and dance and feel all of this.......
and I have to ask myself also that if those players were all so quick to leave me and reject me and just come back at me when they need me how was that really serving me/ it was loveless bdsm and that's not what I want right now...
spiritual or what........
Prin XXXX

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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 6:10:29 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

This has been a bad 24 hours. My darling sister has had back problems for many years. Lumber discs misaligned. Waist discs crumbling. Now C4 in her neck....an almost sudden dislocation. Partial numbness and paralysis in her legs and arms. Lack of tatste and saliva. Incontinence which has now passed. I am the elder. The stronger of two prematurely born and incubated babies.
I work, I run a home, I write, i go to parties, have many friends and now a new Dom, interviewing a slave boy and chatting seriously with a girl.
My man comes home from holiday on Monday. I am craving to see him.
sis also has kids and an ex husband who has been kind to her. But she has to wait also until Monday for her MRI scan. She is dependant on me to shop now and run her to the hospital.
I have  survivor guilt at being the stronger of the two. And now I feel I cannot talk to her of my happiness. My joy and excitement about my sexuality....well what can I talk to her about when there is the threat that she may not walk?
Apologies; i did not mean to dump, I am supposed to deal with this. I am suppose to know what to do. But I am stuck emotionally and it has made me nmb with guilt for having a life of fun, a life of health and strength and especially guilty about a lifestyle.

Is there anyone else who feels guilt for whatever reason and how do you deal with this..

It might not feel so bad but she is my twin.

Prinsexx.



Prinsexx
    I also would like to offer a supportive hug to you ...
this has got to be very difficult, for both of you.
 
You say you are twins...that, from what I understand, comes with its own special feelings and empathy for one another.
It makes me think>  she might already "know" much of what you are feeling, and if not she most likely wants to know..smiles.
 
If the situations were reversed>
and she in your shoes and you in hers..
what would you want her to do? with her feelings? with her life? with her joys and happiness ?
   share them with you or keep them from you?
 
The guilt button is one of those things many of us have a "love-hate relationship" with in our lives..
once pushed and engaged>  seems irresistible to keep from pushing....if someone else isn't pushing ours, we push it our self> what?  just to make sure its still working?
groaning and chuckling ....yep, have done that myself.
 
Until 3 years ago, when I regained the use of my legs, I had spent the prior 12 years physically challenged.  I did the best I could on a daily basis and, because of my years of past experience working with the special needs of children with mental and physical disabilities ( irony yes) and my personal spiritual beliefs, I continued to live as fully as I could each day.  I focused on what I could do rather than on what I couldn't and never wanted anyone to treat me "unable" ...
 
What hurt 2nd worse than the physical pain I was in?  was the pity & judgements I sometimes saw in others eyes..That they saw the wheelchair instead of me.
What hurt primarily, and worse than the physical pain?, was the guilt. Guilt that I was needing others to do for me what I wanted to do for myself...Guilt that I was unable to do for others as much as I always had been able to in the past.... Guilt that I was making others feel awkward about their abilities vs mine.  I could feel them keeping their joy and experiences away from certain subjects, and I knew(felt) it was due to my challenges....I know their intentions were honorable and from a place of caring.  My guilt, was MY guilt....I was projecting my assumptions onto them ( I would find out later ) .                 .my point being, I never wanted anyone to talk to me differently, treat me differently, hold anything back from me emotionally or physically.  My sister ( and my Master) were the people in my life then, that could and did "see" and embrace ALL the strengths inside of me despite the lack of strength in my legs.
 
I don't think anyone wants to be defined by their inabilities...and I'm sure your love for your sister is not because of what she "can" do...nor will you not love her because of what she "cannot" do..  
   The reasons you both are connected and love one another is something that happens from within, not about what happens outwardly in your lives.. but sharing your lives with each other touches both..powerfully.
 
because of your love for her> don't you want to know about everything she is feeling and experiencing?  I bet'cha she wants the same from you ...smiles..
 
So if the situations were reversed....what would you want to hear from her???
    filtered information? or about everything?
 
( I am also a member of a group of supportive people and one of our creeds is " we share our experiences, strength, and hope" >  which empowers us each individually, even when we might, alone, be feeling a lack of resolve or strength.  )
 
I hope you don't mind the length of this, but what you shared touched a chord in me..I thought the above might be helpful to what you are dealing with.
 
how wonderful to have such a loving sister... you are both very fortunate.
 
hug
Cyndi
 
 
 
 

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 6:22:27 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

What you really want is to cure her, and since you can't, you are feeling guilty for her situation.



I know and I had just come to the computer crying to post some more when I read this.
And i do.........crying loads because you know there's something deep inside that makes me want to cure everyone and i can't can i? And there's just so much, just so much pain out there. It really hits home when it hits home..
 



Yes Prinnie, I know. I have that feeling far too often, keeps me up at nights, and keeps me down during the days.

I've been writing since I was 13, 37 years now. I keep telling myself there has to be a way to communicate with everyone such that they will understand and find peace within themselves and peace between each other.

I look at the impact other writers have had: the American Constitution, the Bible, the Qu'ran ...

Then I look at the world: barely literate, intensely egotistical, translation provlems due to the language-dialect-personal connotation matrix ...

And despite that, they are good people doing the best they can to be the best they can be. No different than you or me.

And so I end up feeling depressed because I'm not a good enough writer to find -that- way to reach them and help them to see each other for what they truly are. I haven't found that way yet, and probably never will.

But Prinnie, what I have learned is that I can help this person, or that person, today. That's all I can do, and likely all most of us can do. It has to be enough for me. To have the opportunity, today, to help someone feel better about him/herself.

Maybe that's the message, for each of us to help someone, today, one day at a time. I don't know. If it was the message I'd expect everyone would get it, but perhaps those who don't are in greater need of help than others.

I really don't know.

One thing I do know, beating yourself up because you can't help everyone is -not- the way.

At the end of the day, count the good things you did, not all the good things you couldn't do (if you count those, you'll never sleep).

And always remember you're doing the best you can, under difficult circumstances. As you learn to do better, your best will get better. But there's no magic wand to make that happen. Only by trial and error, an open mind (but not a gullible mind) and an open heart can we learn to do better.

And as I've nothing better to do with my life, that's what I do: help and learn.

quote:



It's been a spitritual day..........



Aren't they all?

To live, to think, to feel, these are all spiritual events if one chooses to see it that way.

Prinnie, it isn't easy being the one to hold the hand of the one who is suffering. But it's even harder to be the one suffering with no hand to hold.

Don't underestimate the value of the good you do.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 10/6/2007 6:28:45 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 6:42:30 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		I heard this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

I drank a great deal in less than an hour, and broke all my rules about drinking,....hence the downer and the guilt in the early hours no doubtand hence all the tears today probably

 
And I heard this:
 
quote:
and I have to ask myself also that if those players were all so quick to leave me and reject me and just come back at me when they need me how was that really serving me/ it was loveless bdsm and that's not what I want right now...



Last night, you released a lot of pressure you were under.

Today, you are looking for someone who can share the burden, not add to it.

Makes perfect sense to me.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 6:59:28 AM   
AEslaveM


Posts: 126
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		More hugs to you and sister, as it sounds like you need them...................

M

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M


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 7:09:49 AM   
lighthearted


Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Yep it's been a spirtual day....



you know and I know there are no accidents in life, that all of this happened now for a reason.

but to your OP...the thing about guilt, it's just like anything else we feel...it's natural, and while it's self serving at it's very center, it's part of a process where we can grow and continue on, if that's what we choose.

best,
lighthearted

_____________________________

"Thou art to me a delicious torment." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 7:39:54 AM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline 		Is there any way your could get together with your sister and have an open honest talk?
She may also be feeling a lot of guilt from being in her situation and haivng to ask you for help.
 
I always find that no matter how hard the subject matter is, when everything is expressed and feelings are validated and/or just shared out in the open, much healing can take place.
 
Best Wishes, Missy.

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But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 8:24:35 AM   
amiciaN


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I would like to echo the sentiment expressed by brightspot.  My mother is disabled and she is often almost consumed by guilt over asking for help.  For many many years, she was the one everyone turned to 'get things' done'.  Now that she can't do those same things, her self-seteem has plummetted and she feels a tremendous sense of guilt over being a 'burden', no matter how many times I reassure her that she is not.  I also have a niece (well, she's really my cousin's daughter, but she calls me "Aunt" anyway) who is a twin... but her brother was stillborn.  She maintains that he is still with her (and I believe her).  At times, she struggled with a tremendous sense of guilt for simply having lived while he died, but finally her brother's spirit sat on her bed one night and explained a few things to her.  He is not envious of her 'life' at all.  He takes great joy in her accomplishments, shares her joy when she is in love, and longs to cradle her in his arms when she is hurting.  He 'lives' through her.  You do not seem like a selfish person at all and I can't imagine your twin could be much different in that regard.  When you feel guilty for being happy, you are also indirectly saying that you feel your sister would not want you to be happy, which I don't get tthe impression is the case with you.  With so much 'darkness' in her own life, perhaps the 'light' present in yours is just what she needs.  What she surely doesn't need is to feel guilty for 'ruining' your happiness and causing such guilt within you.

I often ask my mother why she always helped everyone and she always replies that it was the 'right thing' to do... it made her feel good about herself.  When people didn't ask for help she could have gladly given, she was often angry that they didn't ask, needlessly suffering when it wasn't necessary.  I then gently remind her that she raised my sister and I with the same values.  We also have no wish to see her suffer or worry when we can help and that by not allowing us to help, she is denying us the same fulfillment she derived from helping others  That is often accompanied by an added little sting of guilt for not seeing she needed help in the first place!

Maybe one way to work through your own guilt would be by helping her work through her sense of guilt for being sick in the first place.

As always, this is only my opinion based on my personal experience and observations... ymmv.


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I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 8:30:41 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating





It makes me think>  she might already "know" much of what you are feeling, and if not she most likely wants to know..smiles.

So if the situations were reversed....what would you want to hear from her???
    filtered information? or about everything?
 


That's exactly it: I can't imagine the situation reversed because as far as I can remmeber she has always been the 'weaker'.....the more depressed, the more physically challenged, the more 'unable'''''but if the situation could be I'd want her to have a man, to dance for him to tell me she was in love, to tell me she was happy. That's all I have ever wanted for her and all I ever have tried to do for her.
i am am just too overburdened by her and too guilty to fucking say so.....
and it has it#'s knock on effect in as much as i am only alright when helping others and i am always self-defetaing and driving lovers away and i suppose it's because I feel guilty about tthat too....

damn damn I am crying again and didn't foresee any of this.......insight.....
like if I have that feeling of really KNOWING I am in love...I rarely say, push it away, make them wrong and rarely disclose.....

how fucked up is that for a therapist????

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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 8:34:18 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amiciaN

Maybe one way to work through your own guilt would be by helping her work through her sense of guilt for being sick in the first place



Yes sorry can't type see for tears....

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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 8:43:57 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

damn damn I am crying again and didn't foresee any of this.......insight.....
like if I have that feeling of really KNOWING I am in love...I rarely say, push it away, make them wrong and rarely disclose.....

how fucked up is that for a therapist????



You have as much right to be happy as anyone you've ever helped.

What would -you- say to you, if you were your own client?

Physician, heal thyself.

(more gently: Prinnie, you can work yourself out of this dead end. You know that by being miserable you subtract from the happiness in the world, when your mission is to add to the happiness. Let your mission start with you.)

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 8:48:50 AM   
amiciaN


Posts: 228
Joined: 1/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: amiciaN

Maybe one way to work through your own guilt would be by helping her work through her sense of guilt for being sick in the first place



Yes sorry can't type see for tears....



Hugs.  Just lots and lots of hugs.....


_____________________________

NChaka's amicia

I have never been lifted so high as when I kneel at His feet.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 9:06:15 AM   
Cyntilating


Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating





It makes me think>  she might already "know" much of what you are feeling, and if not she most likely wants to know..smiles.

So if the situations were reversed....what would you want to hear from her???
    filtered information? or about everything?



That's exactly it: I can't imagine the situation reversed because as far as I can remmeber she has always been the 'weaker'.....the more depressed, the more physically challenged, the more 'unable'''''but if the situation could be I'd want her to have a man, to dance for him to tell me she was in love, to tell me she was happy. That's all I have ever wanted for her and all I ever have tried to do for her.
i am am just too overburdened by her and too guilty to fucking say so.....
and it has it#'s knock on effect in as much as i am only alright when helping others and i am always self-defetaing and driving lovers away and i suppose it's because I feel guilty about tthat too....

damn damn I am crying again and didn't foresee any of this.......insight.....
like if I have that feeling of really KNOWING I am in love...I rarely say, push it away, make them wrong and rarely disclose.....

how fucked up is that for a therapist????



....it's ok Prinsexx....tears cleanse....
 just wish I could hug you while you cry..
 
you say she has always been the weak one...so does that mean you feel , somehow, that you always have to be the strong one?
 
don't know why> but feeling like you two ( sisters ) could exchange those for a day...let her be the strong one and let yourself fall into her arms and weep..
could heal alot......
just a thought.
 
sending another hug anyway..
Cyndi

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 9:09:41 AM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		someone had to tell me this last night...its ok to feel...you don't have to pretend to be "strong"...because feeling is not weak...

and on that note, i really should close the internet browser and get my ass started on my step work because i really want to get through it...i am ready to heal....

edited to add: this was a FR to whoever needs it...btw


< Message edited by chellekitty -- 10/6/2007 9:10:22 AM >

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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

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RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 9:12:58 AM   
Bobkgin


Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		Prinnie:

Feeling the love in this thread?



_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 9:19:55 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		guilt makes you a cripple.



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This is him

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Guilt - 10/6/2007 2:44:39 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

guilt makes you a cripple.




It does. At least, irrational guilt does.

agirl



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Profile   Post #: 40
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