Abortion (Full Version)

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LadyLynx -> Abortion (10/6/2007 7:38:35 PM)

I know, major hot blood topic   I believe it should be legal, despite that I would not get an abortion. I think it is murder. However knowing other people view it differently, it should be up to the individual......BUT! Have you thought of what if they outlaw abortion? What's next? birth control? I mean people don't want to believe this, but women could end up losing most if not all that we have strove for.  It was only 80 odd years ago that we got the vote!  And after the get done gunning for women, who is next?  I got to say if they do outlaw abortion, I will move.  I love the USA, but if my abililty to choose goes out the window, then this country will have ceased to be what I thought it was.



sub4hire -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 7:43:17 PM)

I know most of the US does not see it the way I do.  However....I don't feel it really matters if we are for or against abortion.  The bottom line is, if they do outlaw abortion people will still have them.  It will just revert to back alleys once more.  More people will die. 

Sort of like outlawing drugs....it doesn't mean it is good for you but people are still going to do it.

I believe we should impart morals on our children.  That way if they do decide to have an abortion they know the longterm consequences.



KatyLied -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 7:49:04 PM)

A woman should have ownership of her reproductive rights, with no interference from anyone.  This includes the right to give birth, use birth control, obtain abortion, sterilization.    



LadyLynx -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 7:55:17 PM)

I do agree about teaching children about morals,  however the point of my post was that we may find more freedoms then that taken away from us.  Oh yeah, the Back Alley Butchers would definately get alot of business, and alot of scared young women will lose being able to have children, or their lives.   I don't have children yet, and when I do, I mostlikely would be tempted to lock them in the basement til their oh 25.  However not exactly a reasonable solution, (as all people need a period where they act like idiots and learn from their mistakes.)  I would much rather my daughter come to me, say she is pregnant and that she wants an abortion and finding a way to do that, without her losing anything exept for alittle bit of pride.  Like I said before, it should be about making our own choices, not having them made for us.



MissSCD -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 7:56:16 PM)

The woman always has the right to choose.  If we lose this right, we may as well start wearing viels like women in the third world countries have to wear.
I am concerned that women need to educate themselves enough so that they will not have to use abortion as a tool.  So many women such as myself would love a child of their own.  It is impossible. 
Safe sex is another option.  Use birth control, and yes, I believe abortion is murder.  That is why we need to study it.
I saw a film on it in college.  I used to be totally pro-abortion.  When I saw that tape in a pshce class, it changed my mind right away. 

Regards, MissSCD



CuriousLord -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 8:30:35 PM)

So, if I understand you correctly, you feel it's murder, but you believe it should be legal murder for the sake of not giving way on women's rights?

No need to have that fear.  While it's true that a lot of pro-life would have birth control also outlawed, they're not the majority.  There will always be extremists on all ends of things.  No need to act differently due to them.

I'm against abortion.  I nearly vote oppositionally to it (this is to say, I look for pro-life in political canidates as the most important factor in deciding).  Still, I'd also vote oppositionally against banning birthcontrol (probably moreso).  I doubt I'm in the minority.

Abortion's murder.  A lot of pro-life want to stop it.  This doesn't mean that they also want to take away all birth control; just the one that happens to involve killing the baby.



CuriousLord -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 8:44:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

A woman should have ownership of her reproductive rights, with no interference from anyone.  This includes the right to give birth, use birth control, obtain abortion, sterilization.


Since when was murder a right?

I get the whole "it's my body" bit.  I'd like point out that, when the baby is developing, you're "eatting for two" because there are, indeed, two bodies.  I can not see how you can possibly be so cynical as to argue that the second life is so unimportant as to its life terminable at the first life's whim.

To be earnest with you, such a notion is as disgusting as the idea that I should have the rights to do whatever I want with my body.  Such as lifting my arm in a swift fashion, regardless of the person next to me.  Who cares if I punch them?  It's my body!  My right!  Their life doesn't matter.  And, if I'm one who cares so little for others that I don't mind punching them, I should legally be allowed to.



CuriousLord -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 8:53:53 PM)

I had a nice, sarcastic reply.  It was a good one, too.  And now it's deleted, because I'm not sure what you were trying to say.. it seemed to contradict itself halfway through.

So you think abortion is murder, but that women should always be able to conduct this murder..?



BlackKnight -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 9:06:24 PM)

Yes a woman should have ownership of her reproductive rights, the right to use birth control, sterilization,
to have sex.
But what about the baby's rights. "I brought you into this world I can take you out!" how many times have
we heard that? should parent be allowed to KILL their CHILDREN?
Once the genes are melded together a life is created.
Your not legally allowed to commit suicide, but you can kill a human baby when the BABY is inside you.
Partial birth abortion is the BABY, during birth, getting turned around, a needle shoved into
the BABY's head at it's base, where the spine meets, and the BABY's brain gets sucked out!
The BABY is being born and then the BABY's life is taken. The BABY could, should, be allowed to live.
if you don't want the CHILD then let someone who does adopt the child. why go threw 9 months of carrying
this CHILD to extinguish the CHILDS life. It's not about choice, it's about a CHILD.



MstrDennynSlave -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 9:15:18 PM)

there are only a few cases where i approve of abortion. with more and more young girls starting puberty early, my own girls started at 9 and 10, in the case of incest or rape of a young girl. the body at this age, 8-16 is not able to carry a baby to term without undue consequences to the child. emotionally as well as physically. the other is in the case of the mothers life being in danger as well as the baby's life, this pertaining to adult women. the rape of an adult woman would also be taken into consideration for me also. if the woman is too fragile mentally, before the rape, like in a handicapped person, or someone in a psychiatric facility long term.

there are so many people that cant have children, that desperately want children. if you find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy, carry the baby to term and place the baby up for adoption. you can always make the choice to place the baby in an open adoption, if you want the baby but are physically unable, or financially unable to care for a child to adulthood.



LadyLynx -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 9:15:33 PM)

Well there are so many different views on when is it viable life.  I believe that life begins at conception, at the very least.  But I know not alot of people believe that. And even if I believed that abortion should be outlawed I would have to think what about in cases of rape/incest? Medical reasons?  It should still be a personal choice.   As for birth control not being outlawed, well alot of people also said that Hitler wouldn't amount to anything, then Boom! he was elected Chancellor.  So never say never. (personal rule.)  And please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think that men should have much of a say about what we do with our bodies.  Unless  the woman in question is married to the father of her baby  (Though definately willing to discount that if there was history of abuse.)



LadyLynx -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 9:22:55 PM)

I agree with that,  But consider the 2nd half of my post:  The freedoms that we take for granted, could be taken away.  Do some reading, read about before we became a country, The Salem Witch Trials, the time after the Civil war, Segregration. German history in the 1800 and early 1900's. Russia before and after Communism, Other countries behind the Iron Curtain. 



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 9:23:19 PM)

If it can be sustained on medical life support then it is a life, if it cannot then it is not. This also does not take into account any rights the Father may have. If Men are going to be held financially accountable if the child is born, then they should have some say so in whether an abortion can be done or not. Personally I am against abortion, but I believe it should be a choice within the guidelines of the first sentence.

Orion



laurell3 -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 9:28:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx

I know, major hot blood topic   I believe it should be legal, despite that I would not get an abortion. I think it is murder. However knowing other people view it differently, it should be up to the individual......BUT! Have you thought of what if they outlaw abortion? What's next? birth control? I mean people don't want to believe this, but women could end up losing most if not all that we have strove for.  It was only 80 odd years ago that we got the vote!  And after the get done gunning for women, who is next?  I got to say if they do outlaw abortion, I will move.  I love the USA, but if my abililty to choose goes out the window, then this country will have ceased to be what I thought it was.


why would you think they are going to "outlaw" abortion?  If anything the law has become more permissive on this topic.
Unfortunately both pro-choice and pro-life camps have some merit in my opinion.  However, having had alot of experience with families that were not ready for children and the unfortunate effects that had on the child, I have to say, "life" is not quality.  Until our system learns to deal better with the aftereffects of all the unwanted children, child abuse, and child neglect, I will continue to support abortion personally.
That's my opinion, as I stated above, I respect other's opinions on this issue as well.
l



LadyLynx -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 10:14:03 PM)

I have alot of family members who work in social services,police dept, teachers, etc. So growing up heard quite a few horror stories about people who should not have reproduced!  Plus not to mention alot that shouldn't have been certified for foster care and adoption. Nothing specific has made me start worrying about it,  just thinking things out.......saying to myself, "what if they did outlaw it?"  "would that be the end of it?"  Look at it this way: Pro-lifers say abortion is murder, and alot (not all. but alot.) think that not having children isn't following God's law.  Birth control would fall into the same catorgory because it is stopping a natural process.    Now like I have said before, I personally believe that it is murder.  But it is my body, and therefore my right to decide ethier way. As for the father.....if I am in a commited relationship with him, then yes I would consider his say. if it was a 1 night stand or a casual relationship, uhh no. 



CuriousLord -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 11:51:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx

Well there are so many different views on when is it viable life.  I believe that life begins at conception, at the very least.  But I know not alot of people believe that.


It's one of those things were people are just uneducated.  There's this period we're in where religion's dying off yet people aren't quite educated enough to understand morality still.  (Previously, religious mandates forced people to obey morality; they didn't have to understand it, they just did it.  Now, they don't have to, and most don't understand.  Since not everyone feels it when it's inconvinent for them, this causes the "pro-choice" movement.)

A value within a couple of orders of magnitude of a human life begins to grow at conception, so far as my best model begins.  This qualifies as "murder" in a mild sense in abortion even the moment after conception, rapidly growing as time passes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx
And even if I believed that abortion should be outlawed I would have to think what about in cases of rape/incest? Medical reasons?  It should still be a personal choice.


Sure, a personal choice in those cases.  Not all cases, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx
As for birth control not being outlawed, well alot of people also said that Hitler wouldn't amount to anything, then Boom! he was elected Chancellor.  So never say never. (personal rule.)


Hilter used fear to rule.  He told people that they'd lose their God-given rights if they didn't take liberties to protect them.  Liberties that happened to include putting down others.  I'd ask you to consider this parallel more closely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx
And please don't take this the wrong way but I don't think that men should have much of a say about what we do with our bodies.


Yes, yes.  I know, sexism is only a natural impulse, I suppose.  But, ask yourself: how would you feel if a male rapist told you that you shouldn't tell him what to do with his body (i.e., his penis)?  You don't give a damn about his penis, right?  Only what he's doing to his victim.

I care about the abortion victims.  I don't give a damn about the woman's body, so long as it doesn't screw up things for the victim's body.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx
Unless  the woman in question is married to the father of her baby  (Though definately willing to discount that if there was history of abuse.)


Very different subject, so let's not get off topic.  There's the whole question with the greater relationship of the mother to the child by being the one to have to bear it.  I'd state my position here that this relationship is greater, not absolute.  The man, regardless of marital status, has both an obligation and an interest in the offspring, even if it is not as significant as the mother's.  I can not tolerate the sexists that would deny the man his rights here.



LadyLynx -> RE: Abortion (10/6/2007 11:57:58 PM)

The only reason why I brought up Hitler, is because that is a classic example on how things can get seriously warped.  Human beings have the tendency to say "that would never happen" and yet it has happened, time and time again. 



CuriousLord -> RE: Abortion (10/7/2007 12:01:58 AM)

It's cool.  I just think it's important we keep people within their rights- that's the lesson from Hilter, isn't it?



HotFaerieMama -> RE: Abortion (10/7/2007 12:07:18 AM)

i don't think that abortion should be outlawed but there should be regulations set in place. i myself am pro choice i do have a child and well if i were to get pregnant right now my only choice would be abortion because trying to carry untill full term could possibly kill me and the baby. for those who are unable to care for a child or could die in the process of being pregnant/child birth the option of abortion should be available 



LadyLynx -> RE: Abortion (10/7/2007 12:18:25 AM)

It's important to keep things in perspective.  "Those who do not learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it"  I have always liked that quote, maybe a bit trite, but very fitting



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