quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Velvet,

What happened to fleshing out the accusation of unanswered questions?

It's not that important to me..... go back and look if you care to.  i was using it as an example to make a point in reference to something else.

You made your job an issue when you brought it up, now you back away. You implied "expertise".

Show me where i implied expertise, because i can show you directly where i said i was hardly an expert. Is the best you can do for your argument try to make me on the defensive about something i never even said?

Now you are saying, or at least the references you gave say, your expertise is anecdotal with no scientific basis in fact.

Never claimed expertise - you keep saying it and i will keep denying it.  i was called a liar and i cleared up the truth with reference to why i was around "druggies"  Post where i said i was an expert.

Even your reference to additives has a qualifier of "sometimes", "maybe" and "can". Contray to your original position - quoted word for word; "here in NY it's laced with all kinds of crap."

It is... don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.  Are you in oppositon and saying it's never?  You're argument seems to be - well it's at the user level as opposed to dealer level.  How do you determine between user and dealer when someone is given a joint to smoke?  Are all "dealers" the same - the ones who deal in affluent neighorhoods are the same ones who deal in the slums? 

quote:

By your logic then if you are a hunter and use your hunting gun to kill a human being - your a hypocrit. 

No VT, you aren't a hypocrite in that case you are a murderer. I'm slow - you'll have to flesh out the hypocrisy of your example. I don't see it.

Try harder

quote:

One that we suspect might promote psychosis. 

You and your industry suspect this because all the scientific studies regarding the other fear propaganda have failed to produce the desired result. They are running out of weapons in their lost war. You need to believe that to be able to go to work every day, but don't expect everyone else to drink the Kool-Aid; you never know what's been added to it.

The only thing i need to go to work everyday is the desire to make a difference in peoples lives in some small way.  This job affords me more access to people in the drug culture in some form or the other and i have ears and eyes.. see and hear things, go to trainings etc.  Did i claim Ph.D status?  Do i need one to post or have an opinion? 

My job? I'm in financing - I don't finance any drug related enterprise that I am aware of, however if requested, I'd consider it on its merit as any other credit decision I make.

quote:

Because alcohol is legal is no argument to then add another  substance to the market that people will use and abuse to get high with. 

Now you are changing the parameters of the example. I didn't say alcohol was an example of substance that people used to get high. I used it as an example of hypocrisy. Using one, even "on occasion" and prohibiting and being on a soapbox for banning the other is on its face hypocritical.

i don't agree. Depends on your reasons for wanting the ban.

Add cirrhosis, and the other detrimental effects of alcohol that don't exist with marijuana and you have a condition of a dangerous hypocrisy. Supporting the "culture" of hypocrisy and the industries of hypocrisy, isn't for me.

Especially if that "culture" infringes on something you like to indulge in or in bets case needs.  Luck for her she can get it from doctors and you'll never see her in a pcp rage or suffer the ill effects of some other crap that might be added, but than again i doubt you hang out in those circles, i imagine you are pretty affluent.

quote:

What other purpose does pot have if not to get high, besides the one of relieveing pain, which to me is ok,

How magnanimous of you! But of course you had to add; "...although i have recently read some about that as well so i am not so convinced on that either." Believing something anecdotal you read that you agree with and doubting scientific results on the study of pain management is, if nothing else, an illustration of your consistency and a symptom of a closed mind.

Hmmmmmmm... everything i read is anectodal yet what you read is written in stone? Who has the closed mind there? 

 To date there is a lack of ANY scientific correlation to marijuana use and lung cancer. Enough people believed, and enough scientific evidence supported the change in the law to make marijuana legal for pain management in CA and many other States. Guess what? In CA it is also being prescribed for those UNDER 18, quite frequently I should add. Is your preference drug of choice for the under 18 crowd Ritalin okay because it's universally "legal"? No examples of that being "abused" or "used to get high"; is there?

http://www.mfiles.org/Marijuana/marijauna_brochurea02.pdf
[excerp]

Physicians for a Smoke-Free Canada state in their
report released January 23, 2002, that at this point in
time we know more about the harm caused by marijuana
smoke than we do about the benefits. Numerous
studies have found that marijuana smoke produces
pulmonary damage similar to that produced by tobacco
smoke, only more severe.
• Marijuana produces 50 percent more tar than the
same weight of strong tobacco.
• Marijuana smoke contains 70 percent more benzopyrene
(a highly carcinogenic product) than
tobacco smoke.
• Marijuana smokers tend to inhale the smoke much
more deeply into their lungs and hold it in their
lungs four times longer than with cigarettes.

i am sure you will have some claim as to how this is all not true or some other claim as to it being someones propaganda.

quote:

At any rate.... those are my pov, opinions etc.  You have yours merc.  i don't see either one of us changing anytime soon.

That is a shame and perhaps the most disheartening think you've posted. It also points to a major difference between us. If you made a argument or factual representation, the possibility of change did and does exist in me.

quote:

It is... don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.  Are you in oppositon and saying it's never?  You're argument seems to be - well it's at the user level as opposed to dealer level.  How do you determine between user and dealer when someone is given a joint to smoke?  Are all "dealers" the same - the ones who deal in affluent neighorhoods are the same ones who deal in the slums?[/quote]Don't know and never claimed any expertise in that area. However, your statement quoted referencing absolute speaks for itself. Sure, I'll stand behind the "sometimes", "maybe" and "can" representation. I don't even expect you to back off your absolute. 
 

quote:

Hmmmmmmm... everything i read is anectodal yet what you read is written in stone? Who has the closed mind there?

The studies that are sited ARE written in stone with scientific results NOT anecdotal. Read again - this time for comprehension.

quote:

Produce "facts" and maybe i will. 

The BEST you can do is a brochure from 2002!? ??? Why not suggest I view "Reefer Madness" it's similarly timely.
 
That being the case, your side of the "war" truly has surrendered and it seems the word hasn't trickled down to the troops still hiding away in caves!
 
The claims made on the other side are not only supported by facts, but people living by the consequences of those facts; both positive and negative. 
Your 2002 dated "brochure" had not one Doctor named. All information came from sources required to take positions in support of their agenda's and industries. I again appreciate that is the only tact you can take, but really - in the age of the internet and fast changing status you should site something more current.

PS - In Washington State, marijuana is also LEGAL, passed by Initiative 692 in 1998. Care to be educated?: http://hemp.net/692faq.html

Back to the OP - What of the "war"? What are you doing to end it versus perpetuating it? Half truths, fear propaganda, and outright lies doesn't appear to be working. Wouldn't access and regulation serve much of your agenda? Or is your position in that regard also best "kept to myself"?

(in reply to velvetears)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne


i have never, in 30 years, seen weed laced with something that i wasnt aware of when i bought it.  no one else who smokes has come forward to say they have ever encountered it either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
You often bring things up that are not important? Should the balance of your inquiry be taken in the same context?

quote:

Mercnbeth
You said your work in rehabilitation should be considered as another alternative reason for you position as opposed to only your friends and family. My apologies if I assumed your work in the field implied expertise. Obviously - I was wrong.

quote:

velvetears
It is... don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.  Are you in oppositon and saying it's never?  You're argument seems to be - well it's at the user level as opposed to dealer level.  How do you determine between user and dealer when someone is given a joint to smoke?  Are all "dealers" the same - the ones who deal in affluent neighorhoods are the same ones who deal in the slums?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Don't know and never claimed any expertise in that area.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The studies that are sited ARE written in stone with scientific results NOT anecdotal. Read again - this time for comprehension.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The BEST you can do is a brochure  from 2002!? ??? Why not suggest I view "Reefer Madness" it's similarly timely.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

That link is nothing more than unsupported propaganda.

Here's how to tell the difference.

REAL RESEARCH has an ABSTRACT, Goals, Methods, RESULTS, Analysis and CITATIONS TO PREVIOUS WORKS relied upon for the study.

Get back to me when you have some real evidence, and not more Government Propaganda produced by Government Employees only really concerned with hiring MORE Government Employees.

You know, Science.

Boy, all that weed must have made me too dumb to just accept shit with no scientific basis, eh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

There is some laced pot in America, but it is very rare, and confined to certain communities.  I grew up on the East Coast and knew of one person who got Loveboat instead of weed, and smoked, and freaked/hospitalised at 15.  He had smoked many times before.  The economics of it does work to all who have commented otherwise.  You take crappy PCP and cut it with embalming fluid ( a formaldhyde variant), then roll a small joint of brown weed, and dip it. The economics works out the same as with crack.  You sell 1 dollar of brown weed for 5$ and a dip, and the user goes sailing with captian stupid for 5 $.  In the 80s when I was in Virginia, only black people used it.  It was a common drug in DC.  Termna8tr is right, it doesn't smell like pot.  Rarely people get it by mistake, often young/new users, or its passed arond while drunk.  In certain communites it is devestating, and a real problem. 

Bubt that has to much more to do with criminalization and the problems of the Ghetto, and people taking advantage of the poor and ignorant.  Which legalisation would likely help alieviate, cetainly for Pot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaraseeks
I agree....this is SO far off topic its unreal.  But still, must everyone be such an ass to the girl?  She obviously means well

quote:

Did you read the scientific study i posted linking early pot smoking and psychosis, the one where they have isolated a gene?

quote:

Whatever is hapening in this "war on drugs" - has little influence on how i personally feel about drug use.  i have seen the ill effects.  i grew up surrounded by it, disgusted by it.  Curious Lord said it  best when he said - i am not directly quoting him, just from memory - He used to think about legalization of pot but then saw how stupid it made everyone.  That just about sums it up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zaraseeks

...why is everyone being so harsh and rude with velvetears???...