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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:14:29 PM

pinkme2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Yeah, how many Democrats vs. Republican's can you name that were doing business with Nazi Germany? Banking anyone? LOL!

Wasn't it the Muslims who had an empire so large the sun never set on it? Is that why Arabic is spoken widely in South America and Africa?

And it would be the fault of the protestors that we get pushed out of Afghanistan? Must be why the Russians pulled out, it was those massive protests in Red Square that did them in!

So when you get beat in one topic, simply move on to the next one? Hmmm..

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:15:39 PM

herfacechair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Of course it escapes all of the Bush worshipers that she in no way showed money coming from communists groups. As usual, Bush worshipers have at best a nebulous grasp of reality which of course is why Bush loves them so much, it makes fooling them so effortless.

ROTFLMFAO!

Using your line of reasoning, a defense lawyer can get a murder case dismissed in a case where there was no witnesses but plenty of forensics.

I mean, since nobody saw the murder, it “couldn’t” have been the suspect, right? (rhetorical question, not meant to be answered).

But when you have members of a major anti war organization that protests western actions, but not communists ones (note their bragging about a global movement), where one or more of the organizers wear communist emblems, don’t you think that something is going on?

When a bunch of people march with banners calling on the workers, students, and others to stand up to fight for communism, or socialism, don’t you think that something’s up?

It’s almost like someone saying that the BDSM session never happened, because nobody outside the dungeon saw the Domina pour candle wax on her sub.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Heck, most of them cant even begin to have discourse at the level of some of the liberals here and so they have to invent straw men to attack.

I’ve debated with liberals online for over four years, I’ve yet to see one of you present a well thought out, reasoned, or logical argument.

Most their arguments are emotionally driven rather than fact based.

What I’m seeing here is your expectation that our side of the argument agree with you, or your position, at the same time you disagree with ours.

It doesn’t work that way. When you have two people on opposing sides of the argument, who are passionate about their positions, and they come head to head, you’re not going to have a discussion, or discourse! You’re going to have an argument!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:25:00 PM

herfacechair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

I can't believe this is still going on.

Now that I’m in it, it’s going to go on and on and on . . .

(in reply to joanus)

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:26:53 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

But the fact that 9 out of 10 terrorists support Democrats ought to tell you something.

...yup, tells me that they're much more worried about Democrats.........propaganda is a dark art........

You're demostrating absurdity by being absurdly funny, right?

The Democrats whole plan for beating terrorism is... umm... what again? Being nice and appeasement?

......sighs....is it so hard to believe that people without your political beliefs are not foolish? Of course appeasement doesn't work......but neither does needless confrontations......i am reminded of something Condoleeza Rice said a while back of US foreign policy in the middle east...."For 60 years, my country, the United States pursued stability at the expense of democracy in the Middle East -- and we achieved neither"......it seems to me that there is a need for a wide debate on a sensible US foreign policy in the middle east......one that focuses less on a US defined sense of stability and more on self determination for the peoples there. Arguably US support of Israel has distorted the balance of power in the region. A new approach is needed, one that does not breed resentment of US foreign policy.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:28:53 PM

herfacechair

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SimplyMichael: KY, I know you think you are quite slick but once again you can't respond to anything I have posted and insult me.

KY addresses you while staying in line with the argument. As for the insults, I see a tit for tat going on.

SimplyMichael: As usual, when Republicans face off against someone who doesn't have a mushy grasp of history they resort to name calling

I’ve lost count of how many Democrats who’d froth at the mouth about NAZIs when they face a Republican with a good grasp of history. It works both ways.

However, in this thread’s case, I’m seeing their insults resulting from insults you throw their way.

SimplyMichael: and or hand wringing over our "irrational hatred of Bush"

Many of the people that I debate with do have a massive hatred of Bush. This hatred is such that they refuse to see the geostrategic reality for what it is.

SimplyMichael: which is amusing coming from people who were screeching to impeach Clinton over a simply lie about sex

And you show little understanding of the Republican position when you say this.

We were up in arms about his perjury and obstruction to justice charges. The mainstream media tried to make this as if it was all about sex, but we had concerns about someone in the executive branch, the branch charged with enforcing the laws of the land, encouraging someone to break the law.

THAT’S what it was about.

SimplyMichael: and mine comes from a complex undermining of the values and constitution of the country I love.

Don’t see my rights, and this constitution, being undermined. The people that tried to argue this point with me in the past failed to prove that this was the case.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:29:06 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair

We have ruled the world before

And by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again

The day will come when we will rule America

The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world…

...yup, thats an extremist.....and so's this....

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." Anne Coulter

......i don't think any side has a monoploy on extremists......

You spelled her name wrong. And she's not an extremist in the least. She only uses words to put liberals in their place, not swords.

(my italics)

....thats just absurd.

(in reply to pinkme2)

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:32:11 PM

herfacechair

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL, which terrorist group came out publicly for Kerry?

So, you think that they thought that their support of Kerry was an enhancement?

You don't think that they would have got the idea that they would make people wanna distance themselves from Kerry? It ain't like they could vote.

Now, assuming that there are some attributes to these folk that make them dangerous, and plotting and capable of intrigue-------waltz me thru the downline on that would you?

Maybe I am confused, but I really gotta say I fuckin' doubt it.

Ron

I’ve read the transcript of his speech, Bin Laden was clearly threatening the red states.

Strategically, it wouldn’t make sense for Al-Qaeda to try to get people to distance themselves from the candidate that would improve their [the enemy’s] geostrategic position.

The Republicans were after Al-Qaeda. The object was to get rid of, or weaken, the party that screamed the hardest for going after Al-Qaeda. Part of this strategy involved them working hard to drive our Iraq casualties up prior to our elections.

Notice how the leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq talked smack, in smugness and arrogance, after the November 2006 elections.

There’s even recent precedence, with a terrorist attack in Spain indirectly leading to Spanish troops being pulled out of Iraq.

(in reply to mnottertail)

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:33:26 PM

herfacechair

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Will reply to the rest later . . . this is fun . . .

(in reply to herfacechair)

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:39:11 PM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

quote:

Putting the Shia in charge of Iraq is a strategic mistake which is why when the rose up after GWI, Bush father allowed Saddam to massacre them along with the Kurds. Whatever can be salvaged from this massive strategic blunder can only be done so diplomatically, not at the end of a bayonet. Speaking of which can you name the last time there was a bayonet charge? Probably not but I think it is so cool!

Umm... We play out each action without the benefit of hindsight. Furthermore, you have no guarantee that any other action would have yeilded a better result. So, we're back to what we have NOW, and can quit looking back and wishing it were different.

YOU play out the actions without benefit of hindsight or foresight or pretty much any sight. Read the book Bush's father wrote, in it he explains why allowing the Shia to run Iraq was a very bad idea. The problems we are experiencing in Iraq are only news to you and Bush Jr. They aren't news to anyone else. Same goes for the strategic and tactical blunders which are all counter to well established counter insurgency strategy and tactics taught to first lieutenants...

quote:

quote:

It is the incompetence of this administration, like Custer's, that has emboldened our enemy. This war isn't being lost because some grandmother is standing on a streetcorner with a sign saying "surrender now" (or whatever) but because Bush has made blunders at every level from strategic to tactical.

So you have a high level security clearance?

The fact that you think you need a high level security clearance to have a basic grasp of strategy and tactics for fighting insurgencies is laughable. Most of the best books were written forty years ago before the disaster in Vietnam. Winning generals anticipate the enemies action, as Patton did prior to the Battle of the Bulge and they WIN. Bush's piss poor handling of the post war planning caused the disaster we are debating and the sad thing is, even if he did it perfectly, there is still no "victory" to be had in the US as long as the Shia are the majority in Iraq. It would be like the Pilgrims holding a vote if they should stay in America and asking all the Indians to vote!

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 10/29/2007 3:40:06 PM >

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:39:37 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

The Democrats whole plan for beating terrorism is... umm... what again? Being nice and appeasement?

Nope. Decentralized response. We have a 2nd Amendment, you should have a gun. Stop being a Paranoid Pussy about "Terrorists", and grow a set of balls.

quote:

quote:

......sighs....is it so hard to believe that people without your political beliefs are not foolish? Of course appeasement doesn't work......but neither does needless confrontations......i am reminded of something Condoleeza Rice said a while back of US foreign policy in the middle east...."For 60 years, my country, the United States pursued stability at the expense of democracy in the Middle East -- and we achieved neither"......i

"Democracy" didn't work out the way the US wanted when Hamas got themselves elected the LAWFUL GOVERNMENT of Palestine.

Perhaps Condi Rice JUST ISN'T SOPHISTICATED ENOUGH to handle the complexities of the gig? Hell, she can't even hide the home she owns with her lesbian friend ( Which would get her tossed from the military... )

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/29/2007 3:42:11 PM >

_____________________________

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 3:41:49 PM

SimplyMichael

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to pink or herchair,

If you were Bin Laudin, why on earth would you publicly come out for the side you truly wanted to win?

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 5:27:43 PM

TreasureKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Any idea of which former communist country received massive US support for many many years and was never tied closely to Stalin?

Can you name a Middle East country other than Israel the West has not invaded, occupied, or overthrown their government?

How many democracies has the US overthrown?

Can you by any chance give us an example of how Iran is going to do this? (edited to correct punctuation)

How exactly can you exploit that as weakness?

Speaking of which can you name the last time there was a bayonet charge?

You do realize that the natives living in America before the arrival of savages lived longer, were healthier, and in general were far more civilized than the savages from Europe? Or that North America supported a far larger population that Europe?

Can you point to anywhere that this administration has used any of the standard COIN strategies and can you explain why when they finally did so it was only YEARS after the fact? Can you explain why riding in an armored vehicle is directly counter to standard COIN strategy and is in fact one of the GOALS of "terrorists"? (again edited to correct puncutation)

Yeah, how many Democrats vs. Republican's can you name that were doing business with Nazi Germany? Banking anyone?

Wasn't it the Muslims who had an empire so large the sun never set on it? Is that why Arabic is spoken widely in South America and Africa?

And it would be the fault of the protestors that we get pushed out of Afghanistan?

Do you know WHY that was being said? Do you know what we did about it? Do you know why they were right?

If you were Bin Laudin, why on earth would you publicly come out for the side you truly wanted to win?

You certainly ask a lot of questions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Of course it escapes all of the Bush worshipers that she in no way showed money coming from communists groups.

Really?

Though you may argue differently, I think the links she provided showed clearly that many of the participants in the 911 Power to the Peaceful Festival have questionable ties to Communism. Of course, you'd have to really stop to think about it, but just how do you think these peace rallies are funded?

In part by participant fees.

From the Tabling Invitation for the 911 Power to the Peaceful Festival:

If you are interested in Tabling at the festival please fill out the form below and send it in with your tabling fee. The cost to table is a sliding scale $50-$100+. We rely on your contributions as all involved make the festival possible.

So even the organizers recognize that the participants are financially sponsoring the event.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 9:14:28 PM

SimplyMichael

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Okay, you guys have convinced me, I surrender! Those sneaky commie bastards are stealing our vital essence one $50 table at a time! I am curious, how many bridges do you guys own?

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 9:29:06 PM

luckydog1

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Hmm, I don't see any conservative actually claiming that simplymicheal, don't you have anything beyond strawmen and insults?

The fact remains you have ben shown evidence of Communists and communist groups funding and organizing parts of the "Peace" Movement. Now are you disputing the evidence that has been given to you, or pretending you haven't been given any evidence?

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:02:51 PM

pinkme2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

But the fact that 9 out of 10 terrorists support Democrats ought to tell you something.

...yup, tells me that they're much more worried about Democrats.........propaganda is a dark art........

You're demostrating absurdity by being absurdly funny, right?

The Democrats whole plan for beating terrorism is... umm... what again? Being nice and appeasement?

......sighs....is it so hard to believe that people without your political beliefs are not foolish? Of course appeasement doesn't work......but neither does needless confrontations......i am reminded of something Condoleeza Rice said a while back of US foreign policy in the middle east...."For 60 years, my country, the United States pursued stability at the expense of democracy in the Middle East -- and we achieved neither"......it seems to me that there is a need for a wide debate on a sensible US foreign policy in the middle east......one that focuses less on a US defined sense of stability and more on self determination for the peoples there. Arguably US support of Israel has distorted the balance of power in the region. A new approach is needed, one that does not breed resentment of US foreign policy.

I'm not calling you foolish, only the idea of appeasement. You may not be for that, but many of our democrats here are.

You talk of a new approach. What would that be?

(in reply to philosophy)

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:04:58 PM

pinkme2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

to pink or herchair,

If you were Bin Laudin, why on earth would you publicly come out for the side you truly wanted to win?

I already answered this question.

Because they believe that the US population can be threatened into voting the way they are told. It's a misunderstanding of Americans. The Japanese did it, as did Bin Laden on 9/11. We won't capitulate as Spain did.

But it worked for them in other areas- to issue threats on the voting populace.

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:09:13 PM

pinkme2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Nope. Decentralized response. We have a 2nd Amendment, you should have a gun. Stop being a Paranoid Pussy about "Terrorists", and grow a set of balls.

If that's what the Dems idea of fighting terrorism was, you'd even have me behind it. I live in Montana afterall.

You're telling me that's the Dem's platform?

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:14:00 PM

farglebargle

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It's kinda late, and I don't want to go too far afield, but.... You would have to believe there's a meaningful difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, first.

Whereas, the Republican Party couldn't get away with the wholesale violation of US Law without the tacit support of the Democratic Party.

The essential point is to convince YOU that YOUR VOTE actually matters, and you have more to gain in preserving the status quo, than having a revolution and retaking your government.

So, no. That's not the DNC platform for Liberty, Freedom and Security.

But I figure that at some point, people need to transcend the pointless debate, and just take care of themselves.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:15:10 PM

farglebargle

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quote:

We won't capitulate

Then why did Bush obey Bin Ladin's 9/11 dictates, and remove the US Troops from Bin Ladin's homeland, Saudi Arabia?

If that ain't capitulation, what is?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:32:53 PM

pinkme2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
YOU play out the actions without benefit of hindsight or foresight or pretty much any sight.

Um, no. And that's not what I said. You may need to reread.

quote:

Read the book Bush's father wrote, in it he explains why allowing the Shia to run Iraq was a very bad idea.

Now you're agreeing with a Bush? Interesting.

quote:

The problems we are experiencing in Iraq are only news to you and Bush Jr. They aren't news to anyone else.

Again with your assumptions. They aren't news to me or to the President I imagine as his father fought them once before. And wrote a book... one you recommended.

quote:

Same goes for the strategic and tactical blunders which are all counter to well established counter insurgency strategy and tactics taught to first lieutenants...

Yes, I agree there have been errors. So let's get them straightened out. But having once been in the military, I can tell you that the military is under tremendous pressure by the state department to fight wars their way. Just like in another war... hmm.. what was that one called again... hmmm... /sarcasm. So let's talk to all the major components, including the higher ups who are intent on PC-ing the military until they are crippled and can't do basic jobs. The President very well may be doing that, but he's not a dictator and can't just have his way by fiat.

quote:

The fact that you think you need a high level security clearance to have a basic grasp of strategy and tactics for fighting insurgencies is laughable.

Again with you misrepresenting what I said. We're not talking basic strategy for fighting insurgents. You were talking about major errors by Bush and his generals. Which I responded by saying you really don't have all the info. So do you have a security clearance for that or don't you?

quote:

Most of the best books were written forty years ago before the disaster in Vietnam. Winning generals anticipate the enemies action, as Patton did prior to the Battle of the Bulge and they WIN.

All wars have problems, changes of directions and their victories. We've had some of each in this one as well. But people like yourself, fooled by the media and aided by the Democrats have forgotten how real wars are run. There were naysayers in WWII as well, but somehow we shut them up and won. So no worries.. while you all protest and pout and whine, the real men and women will fight and keep the freedoms you so enjoy.

quote:

Bush's piss poor handling of the post war planning caused the disaster we are debating and the sad thing is, even if he did it perfectly, there is still no "victory" to be had in the US as long as the Shia are the majority in Iraq.

Finally you are being honest. If the Shia are the majority, then a government where they have more say and power would be natural. The Sunnis have been the insurgents, and trouble-makers and can be dealt with. If they want a say in the new government, they need to play by the rules. So you basically are saying that because you define victory by the impossible, there's no way Bush/his generals/the military/anyone can acheive enough for you to be satisfied here. Instead of endlessly complaining about things then, just be honest and say that you'll never be happy until the entire region is gutted of it's majority. What is your solution or don't you have one? Perhaps you're just content to gripe.

quote:

It would be like the Pilgrims holding a vote if they should stay in America and asking all the Indians to vote!

No, it wouldn't be. The Pilgrims never used road side bombs, nor did they terrorize and behead those that had been their neighbors just months previously. And they are not insurgents.. they are terrorists, aided by those that come into the country for that purpose.

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