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Disease theory - 10/29/2007 10:15:35 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		You know I am radical, but radicals do most of the good in the world.

I wish I had some more info on this, but years ago I read that Louis Pasteur recanted his theories shortly before his death. He began to profess that germs do not cause disease, that they are caused by disease. Pasteur's death was very convenient for Lister.

Now, even if this is true, he didn't say that germs could not spread a disease. There was nothing of the sort in what I read.

Now follows a theory of mine. In Off Topic there is a thread about cheese. The cheese is dangerous I guess, and I guess why. The reson is that all of our immune systems are compromised by overuse of drugs, antibiotics and such. We had staph, now we got MRSA, they have to reengineer the flu vaccine every year. This because we have lost the ability to adapt to our environment.

Nature is going to respond to our tampering, I just hope it isn't in my lifetime. There are already diseases that are so dangerous that they just burn everything.

But then there are the normal diseases. Touch of a cold, flu, whatever.

I would submit now that people who drink when they eat would get less diseases.

I don't mean alcohol, but that might be explored later. Now when something goes into your stomach, it is in a vat of extremely powerful hydrochloric acid. Can you see a streptococcus anything surviving in an environment that could eat away stainless steel ?

So the reasoning follows that the mouth itself is where disease is contracted. Now to get a disease you need X exposure for X time. So if you eat something that is diseased, it is probably a good thing to drink something and "wash it down".

Of course I am a crackpot, but some crackpot theories hold true. I am not even saying I believe this, I want some input on it. All I know is that I drink alot when I eat. Even back when I drank milk, I'd put down a quart with a plate of food.

So, is it true, and if so, how profound is it ? Is it a big factor in health or just a minor thing ?

T
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RE: Disease theory - 10/29/2007 10:23:47 AM   
onmykneesb4Him


Posts: 113
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		i personally don't think that drinking while you eat has anything to do with what diseases you get.

You stated in your post that nature is responding to our tampering. i agree with that. My solution on a personal level is for individuals to foster their own health as much as possible. That means eating well, exercising, avoiding medicine whenever possible. The healthier you are, the less succeptibility you have. So even when you are exposed to a disease, you're chances of contracting it are much less than they would be in an unhealthy person. And should you contract it (we all get sick sometimes), you will be much more able to fight it off.

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RE: Disease theory - 10/29/2007 10:35:36 AM   
angelikaJ


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Status: offline 		I don't have a medical or scientific degree so this is just what I remember from biology as well as anatomy and physiology...plus what I have read on the side.

We usually catch colds and the flu from getting someones germy secretions on our hands and touching our nose or eyes...if we don't inhale it directly from the spray of someone's sneezing or coughing.

The bacteria that travel down into our gut and then make us ill have a hard shell that protects them against our stomach acids until they get into the friendlier environment of our intestinal tract.
Other bacteria enter our bodies directly from open areas in our skin.

If I am mistaken here...will someone kindly correct my misinformation?

aJ

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 10/29/2007 10:47:08 AM >

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RE: Disease theory - 10/29/2007 10:43:36 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		"avoiding medicine whenever possible"

We seem to be on the same page there.

There are things we do that affect our exposure to disease. It is getting so pathetic that people won't open doors in public buildings.

They need to wake up, this is our environment. Like people who bitch about smaking and drive behind diesels all day. Nature is indeed responding. Those who need a CAT scan for a hangnail are going to have weak immune systems. Those who get stabbed and call a cab instead of an ambulance will have better resources to call upon.

If you sneeze do you run to the medicine cabinet or just wipe up and continue what you were doing ? OK, you don't sneeze on food or a surface for food. But I mean say you are mowing the lawn.

More later.

T

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RE: Disease theory - 10/29/2007 11:05:27 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		angelika, you got in edgewise here.

No, you are not off base. The shells of certain organisms do exactly what you said. That is also why they make capsules and caplets for drugs sometimes, to get them through that harsh environment.

However my theory, which could be wrong, is that more diseases are caught through the mucous membranes.

I believe that there are many venues by which diseases enter our bodies, and I think it happens all the time. We only find out when one comes along to which we are not immune. Remember windowpane acid ? I never did it, but it was a small clear sheet you actually put in your eye. The drug was absorbed very quickly. This stuff was expensive and sought after way back when.

And consider the nicotine patch. If a drug can be absorbed in these ways, so can a microbe, especially a virus. Why should any microbe bother to go through the unfriendly stomach when there are so many other entry points available ?

And then the patch for heart disease, what was it ? Yeah, nitroglycerin.

The skin is the largest organ of the body. It has alot more functions than just to contain your organs. It is forever absorbing and excreting. There is a reason for this, although I do not want to speculate on that right now.

And then not even considering the skin, what of the mucous membranes in so many places. That includes the mouth, thus my theory. Call me full of shit, anyone, just back it up. This is a theory.

T

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RE: Disease theory - 10/29/2007 2:32:45 PM   
angelikaJ


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Status: offline 		Yes, the muscus membranes are the fast track for viruses especially the nose and eyes as I understand it...think of how many times we rub, scratch or even casually touch our face in the course of the day... .
It is the reason why the suggestion of simple, thorough hand washing is one of the best ways to avoid picking up those types of viruses.
Getting out of the office and being in "fresh air" once in awhile isn't a bad idea either in my opinion.

In healthy people the skin does an almost miraculous job keeping out foreign invaders but bugs have become more resistant and our diets have become less balanced...

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RE: Disease theory - 10/29/2007 2:34:48 PM   
asubmissiveheart


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Status: offline 		Very interesting thread here, thank you for starting it.

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RE: Disease theory - 10/29/2007 5:13:30 PM   
onmykneesb4Him


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Status: offline 		i totally agree. It drives me nuts the lengths some people go to under the illusion that they are staying away from germs and therefore "healthy".

my sister keeps an absolutely antiseptic house, and she literally squirts everyone that walks through the door with purell. Her um's are always sick- really sick. They never seem to get better.

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RE: Disease theory - 10/29/2007 6:58:35 PM   
briska


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Status: offline 		Kids need to play in the dirt and have colds when they are young to develop antibodies and "immunities" they use further down the line: True

Germs <3 Mucous membranes: True

Drinking milk/soda/water immediately after eating the smallest bites of food: False

We have mucus membranes all over our body; like someone said, even the tiniest cuts in our skin attracts germs (hence, antiseptic).  While this includes the mouth (how many of us chew our lips, bite our cheeks by accident, wear braces?) it's not the only place where we attract germs, just as Louis Pasteur was not the only person to study germ theory.  In fact, over the years in Public Health, there have been many different theories of the spread of disease, everywhere from the Ancient Greeks, where they first hypothesized that nature affects our health, to the Middle Ages, with the "God wanted you to get sick" way of thinking, to Miasma, to Bacteriological/Germ theory.  (In case you're wondering, I'm a Public Health major, and a total health nerd).  Just saying, that while your theory is cute, it's not the end all be all of getting sick; germs are fast and tricky things. And, think about it: When you're chewing your food, and drinking water/milk/soda, do you swish it around your mouth to get every single peice of food in your teeth, or do you just drink it and get most of it down?  Even brushing your teeth immediately before/after eating will produce tiny cuts in your mouth you won't see. 


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RE: Disease theory - 10/31/2007 12:28:09 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		I am different than others. I brush with the firmest brush available and almost never bleed.

Everyone is different. I can hear the old Woman cough in her house across the street, that after listening to Judas Priest. I have a tooth that actually capped itself.

I just wish I could see. My range of focus is going fast, and not only can I not see at night, I can't stand full sunlight.

Point is we each have weakness and strength, the trick is to find out what causes the weaknesses. When we really really want to do better, we can discuss what causes our strengths.

Right now, just looking for opinions and who knows what else. Thanks for the who knows what else. Agree, disagree, it's all good.

However, if this theory develops, we got the edge on everybody. Understanding this is important, this is our very lives. It is but one aspect, albiet an important one, of understanding our lives, and possibly ourselves.

I started about the minerals a while back, and pretty much nobody bit, but people do not understand.

Do you have any idea how an antibiotic actually works ? It sickens your body in a way that is inhospitable to the disease.

Read this one more time "it sickens the body". That is EXACTLY what an antibiotic does. That is it's stated function.

Post on, and if you have to, tell me I am full of shit.

I have a very different outlook on this than most. I am so off the wall that I don't even  know where the wall is anymore, and what's more I am not looking to find it.

I am trying to express myself for the betterment of others, how I am and what I am is of no consequence to others. I know I am different, and I know everyone cannot live like me. But I eat different, I drink different and I am just different. I think differently, and I live differently, but that does not mean that something cannot be beneficial to another.

Egg me on and I will tell you how I live, but realize this, I have not seen a doctor in over twenty years.

Get egging if you want to hear it. Perhaps tomorrow, it is too late now. After work tomorrow I might just do it, and you can judge for yourself . I know I am not normal, and I have no wish to be normal. What I do and how I live, most could not only not do it, they could not comprehend it. I have a certain philosophy by which I live. By which I eat.

Yes perhaps tomorrow, but now I must go. Gotta get up and work. See you after work.

T

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RE: Disease theory - 10/31/2007 2:06:05 AM   
ShellyD


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Status: offline 		Oh Termny8or,

I don't know where to begin with your theories, there are a few errors I studied many years in order to learn about this and cannot put it all here to fully inform, so bear with me.

The skin protects the body by being intact and having an 'acid mantle', This is the pH level and is a complicated scenario, but basically it is created out of the body's salts, and the 'flora' (bacteria) that live on everyones skin. The checks and balances of the hosts bacteria and fungi, generally makes for an environment that bacteria cannot multiply in. That said, it requires a healthy immune system and no breaks. When  a break occurs in the skin and bacteria enters the body it finds a warm moist environment, food  and multiplies, this is infection-a colonisation of bacteria.

Then you have viruses, these cause the common cold, hepatitis, HIV/AIDS, flu's and many more. There is a major difference in bacteria/fungi and viruses, and far to complicated for a definition here, but bacteria have a membrane that encloses it. This is where antibiotics come in, they work in two major ways, as a bacteriostatic agent, high/low pH, and more, This makes the environment 'unwelcoming' and bacteria are either unable to or reduced multiplication. Other antibiotics are bacteriocidal, actively kill the bacteria by forcing a break in the bacterial membrane so that contents leech out. There is so much more to this story, but it is doing my head in just now.

Just a few points;
1 thereare many classes of antibiotics that work in different ways and on different bacterias
2 the body is actively protecting itself at all times, it is extremely effective at this, so long as the immune system, and therefor, immune response is not compromised
3 yes, mucous membranes are the most common portal of entry into the body, this is what the tonsils are for, they are an organ of the immune system full of antibodies to try and destroy any bacteria/virus that enters on food, in the aire etc.
4 a big part of good health is adequate hydration, part of keeping all the bodies systems going about their role of running a body, keeping us alive.

I have heard of all the arguments about antibiotics and don't want to get into a debate, I am just trying to provide some information.




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RE: Disease theory - 11/2/2007 11:27:30 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Shelly, thanks for writing that.

What might interest you is an article I read in a magazine that claimed that childhood vaccinations cause allergies.

It is belived that allergies are an erroneous response by the immune system. I do not disagree with this. You seem interested enough in this that I might send you the scans of the original article. This guy get a little too technical for me, but it might be something you can handle. He gets into specifics about why when we immunize, and certain other factors, the immune system develops improperly. Thus there are allergies.

I can't analyse all of his facts, assumptions and declarations, it is not my field. He is talking globulins and all this, I just don't know. But he does seem to make a good case. And I do not like it actually. If what this guy says is right, there are those among us who do not have a chance, because we did not grow right.

I have long held that a healthy human body is very resistant to disease, just like they say in plants, disease strikes the weak. But if they make us weak when we are born, and screw up the development of our immune systems, we are screwed I think.

Old country doctor used to come to your house, or a midwife. They helped you deliver the kid. They cut the cord. They left. "Do you want a birth certificate ?", "yup, I'll get it when I come to your offfice and pay you". There was nothing more, nothing. Yet people suvived. There was hardly any cancer, no MRSA, no alot of other things.

Sure some babies died, but look at the US infant mortality rate in the world now (America by the numbers, from citypages). Look at what we got. Look at advertising.

If I were an alien looking at the advertising here, I would have to assume that we are all incontinent, impotent, unable to fall asleep, allergic to our own environment and are in constant pain. Would you want to came here ?

I guess that's why we haven't heard anything happening at Area 51 lately.

If we were just able to take money completely out of the picture we could do alot better. And that cuts so many ways. How many of you strive to eat right but are forced to eat fast food for lunch ? How many even go to a birthday party and are forced to eat a bunch of shit that kills you ?

You may notice the MRSA thread re-invigorated. I will have something to say tomorrow there. Right now it is getting too late. I am very close to going to bed.

Be well or get well.

T

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RE: Disease theory - 11/3/2007 12:57:12 AM   
slimcontroller


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quote:

Pasteur's death was very convenient for Lister.


But somewhat inconvenient for Pasteur !

I think you may have a future as PR man for our sainted UK NHS, as this would clearly get them off the hook with MRSA.

Slimc.

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RE: Disease theory - 11/4/2007 8:34:10 AM   
TotalState


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

What might interest you is an article I read in a magazine that claimed that childhood vaccinations cause allergies.

I hate this.

Was it a scientic journal?  Can you name the research it was based on?  If you can't, it's hearsay.  It's just as bad as saying "Oh, but my neighbor Jim thinks that getting a blood transfusion is bad for you, so...".  This is the sort of thinking that gives us superstition and "home remedies" like putting infants in cold water to "cure fever". 

You said in your OP that you are a crackpot.  Yes, yes you are.


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RE: Disease theory - 11/4/2007 8:38:08 AM   
OrrisKitten


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Status: offline 		I don't know how muh I agree with this theory. If it were true then it would be used. We live in such a scientific world with people constantly finding new ways to cure things and regardless of washing something down, the fact is that the piece of contaminate meat will not go instantly from your mouth (where those evil mucous membranes are that want to gobble it up) to the vat of acid in your stomach, it has to go through a process through most of your body. The protiens are picked up along the way by receptors and just as easily, whatever bad thing it is that you can get is still absorbed, just in a different way. Getting something out of your mouth does not make you safe. The food gets broken down and the particles get absorbed and used by your body (This is why we need to eat to survive). If you get a warped piece of protien in your system it could fuck you up, regarless where it is taken in.

As for the glorified past without vaccines and midwives at home... Well, lets just say that a common cold and a touch of flu is what killed people back then. No, there may not have been as many known diseases that we have to deal with today, and if there were it was probably chalked up to being possessed by the devil or something.

I don't know that I feel that mandatory vaccination is the key to stopping this, but education is where I would rather see things go. Don't make anything mandatory, but make correct info mandatory, explain to people in layman's terms what is happening in your body and why it is happening. It may not cure any kind of disease, but at least it will mean less of a privlidged few who can understand what science is doing since it is so wrapped up in jargon as it is.

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RE: Disease theory - 11/4/2007 12:03:19 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		TotalS...; for you, just for you, I will find that article.

The only thing, after finding it is what to do with it. I don't know if I should scan it or try to retype it or maybe do a detailed recap, of course including the author's name.

You get to the point in life where you can judge the validity of a statement by it's content. This guy wrote about SPECIFIC forms of bacteria in our bodies and some very SPECIFIC things about immunology.

The question becomes ; do we all need a Phd to believe anything other than what the mainstream sources say ? Because I don't have a Phd I can't say that the levels of thimerosal were too high in immunizations ? This is a conclusion the medical community reached after years of harming people.

You see in any theory, especially those that are accepted, someone was first. Someone went out on a limb, beyond the textbooks, beyond accepted theory. There was nothing to support their claim but research, and it was indeed a theory. Some are wrong of course, but some are right.

I think immune response is screwed up in alot of people, that article makes a good case. I don't even know some of the words, but I will find it and at least recap it like I said. Then we can go Googling a bit and find out if we want to believe this.

I was born in 1960, grew up with allergies, which does not support this, but the day came when I stopped all medicines. I was about 12 and I got Mom to get me a box of matches. When my allergies flared up, I would light a whole book of matches and inhale the fumes as the sulfur compound burned, not the cardboard part. When it quit fizzing it was put out.

I believe I made my body react, in a way to become afraid to produce an allergic response.

I have not taken an antibiotic in twenty years or so, the other day I had a cold. I said DAY. How long does a cold last for others ? I mean it was gone within 24 hours. It's not all that unusual, but I heal very quickly and I don't get sick often. I believe that I have a superior immune system, partly because of my diet and partly because of my strict avoidance of drugs.

Back when I had my last doses of antibiotics it was after I beat the flu. I mean it was bad, my roommate thought I was going to die, and urged me to go to the hospital. I refused. I had about four meals that month, I could barely walk. I could barely make it to the bathroom, which was right off my bedroom. I persevered.

The antibiotics came because of a subsequent ear infection. I did not want to be deaf. But the original infection was beat. It was do or die for my immune system. Let me tell you, ANYONE else with this condition would have gone to the emergency room. Anyone in their right mind anyway.

The mind controls the body. In my mind, if this infection was not beaten, I would die. When you get like that, I believe the immune system can do things you never thought it could do, just like the stories about 80 year old Grandmas picking cars up off their grandkids. Adrenalin is powerful. You can realize strength much greater than you ever thought possible, but you must be pushed to that point.

So label me a crackpot, I have no problem with that. As long as everyone in here realizes that what I state is my opinion, or my theory, we will be just fine. But I like to throw offbeat ideas out there, and that is something I share with every innovator who ever existed in the world.

I can say unequivocably that a coolant leak is the worst thing that can go wrong in your bigscreen TV. I have no letters after my name, such as CET. I did not even graduate highschool. Do I sound like I am stupid ?

I fully agree that misinformation can be worse than no information, but there is plenty of misinformation in the mainstream. And accepted "facts" are accepted by people who have a vested interest in their acceptance. Refute that. Take a look at who governs the USDA and FDA, and have a look at their "day" job. They all work for chemical or drug companies.

These companies also give big grants to medical schools. When one of these companies supports certain research, and publishes it's conclusions, debate will be limited. They do affect the curriculum, and the reason they spend that money is to make more money.

The basis of all of it is logic. Each of us must decide what we are going to believe forthwith, research and check out, or dismiss summarily. The choice is yours, and I got one piece of advice. Things are not necessarily true just because "they" say so. Of that there is no doubt.

T

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RE: Disease theory - 11/4/2007 2:20:31 PM   
TotalState


Posts: 278
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Status: offline 		Are you seriously comparing your baseless theories with that of real research?

I wait with bated breath for that article. 


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RE: Disease theory - 11/4/2007 4:08:42 PM   
Solipsistic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Take a look at who governs the USDA and FDA, and have a look at their "day" job. They all work for chemical or drug companies.

These companies also give big grants to medical schools. When one of these companies supports certain research, and publishes it's conclusions, debate will be limited. They do affect the curriculum, and the reason they spend that money is to make more money.


Having grown up with a research scientist for a father, and having spent my entire academic life in science (I got my degree in microbiology), I can say this is complete BS.  The fundamental problem non-scientists have with understanding science is their inability to understand the Scientific Method and empiricism.  You're a perfect example.

Theories are great, but to be science, you need to back up your theories with reproduceable evidence.  Do that, and scientists will listen to you.  If you don't, you'll be ignored.  And for good reason.

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RE: Disease theory - 11/5/2007 4:27:25 AM   
Driver1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Solipsistic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Take a look at who governs the USDA and FDA, and have a look at their "day" job. They all work for chemical or drug companies.

These companies also give big grants to medical schools. When one of these companies supports certain research, and publishes it's conclusions, debate will be limited. They do affect the curriculum, and the reason they spend that money is to make more money.


Having grown up with a research scientist for a father, and having spent my entire academic life in science (I got my degree in microbiology), I can say this is complete BS.  The fundamental problem non-scientists have with understanding science is their inability to understand the Scientific Method and empiricism.  You're a perfect example.

Theories are great, but to be science, you need to back up your theories with reproduceable evidence.  Do that, and scientists will listen to you.  If you don't, you'll be ignored.  And for good reason.




He dips To all;

I really enjoyed the stimulation of this thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method#Definition
Mathematical method
Scientific method

1
Understanding
Characterization from experience and observation

2
Analysis
Hypothesis: a proposed explanation

3
Synthesis
Deduction: prediction from the hypothesis

4
Review/Extend
Test and experiment

http://www.answers.com/topic/empiricism

The differences between Scientific Method and Empiricism are dramatic for good reason.  One can be explained logically in science method the other not.  It is not that Empiricism is Bullshit! but that it simply does not confirm to the science perspective!   Empiricism conforms to the experience perspective and should science have the technology to investigate the empirical claim then (and only then) it may be accepted by the scientific community. (This is why some claim scientists to be anally retentive!)

Unfortunately scientists appear to forget that although a claim cannot be proved scientifically does not exclude its worthiness; it can simply be that the technology is not available to establish its scientific validity.

I base my comments upon "Science Process" and "Technology Process" certainly not disimilar. Eg, Man discovering how to make bronze implements was  technological process and is claimed to be unscientific.   Scientists investigating how to improve the bronze process claim their results to be scientific because they 'investigated'.

Healers claiming the use of plants to be therapeudic were scorned by scientists but today's technological advances (which now are so intertwined by science process) have enabled the isolation of phytochemicals from plants to establish the validity of their effects upon the human body.    http://www.answers.com/topic/phytochemical?cat=health

Solipsistic- There is no need to flame the Op in your anally retentive science process shield. (Your gig, your unacceptive perspective of others)

(Edited to address Solipsistic's belief regarding Drug companies and their influences)

The OP does appear heavy handed (intentionally provocative as he claims) with his statements about Drug company influence- hey, Is Mc Donalds having stores at hospitals ethical or justifiable when 'fast food' is proven in studies to influence lifestyles towards  Obesity?   Same and other 'science process' findings link Obesity to Cardio Vascular Disease, Diabetes Type 2 etc. Am I wrong in saying that multi national food outlets influence the 'media' to downplay these findings to reduce loss of the advertising dollar?

Here in Australia we do not have the 'ultimate' Drug approval System however we are the envy of many.   There is (I understand) more transparancy in our approval processes than USA and UK.  There is no doubt that all companies are there to make money for stock holders etc and to refute claims by others regarding this is folly.  Smoking is a classic for starters.........

Our Drug process here challenges the drug companies to prove a substantial difference in a newer drug to replace another that costs less with our pharmaceutical benefits scheme. The obvious catch is that drug companies come out with newer (so called improved ) drugs that cost more and our 'decision makers' require them to justify why! 

People in lower socio-economic countries are dying because the drug companies see no 'stock market' return in imporoving drugs from the 1960's to save them.  Meanwhile we in developed countries have no need for these drugs as we are free of these diseases so where is the money to be made.   The principal return for drug companies is from cold and flu drugs.  Things that lower-socio strata often have resistance to (OP's argument) or simply have to ignore from cost.  

I don't have all the references for this but could easily find them but suggest you spend the hours necessary by utilising the Science Process to open your eyes.

Warm regards Driver.


< Message edited by Driver1961 -- 11/5/2007 4:57:34 AM >

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RE: Disease theory - 11/5/2007 7:00:03 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		Agreed Driver.

Let me just say this, I can't tell you what I know, because I know nothing. You can't tell me what you know for the same reason. We can only tell each other what we believe.

Even if our statements are backed up by what some call solid facts, you have to believe that the facts are solid. We can see research results first hand in some cases, then get proven wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

If I could give you ten sites with cites for everything I say, it would not mean a thing. That is because anybody can write anything. But taking the grain of salt does not mean that you didn't get a grain of truth.

Indications are this, indications are that. That is all we really have in the end. I thought that everybody on this and other fora assumed that they are simply reading someone's beliefs, their opinions, but indications are that this is not true of everyone.

But what if I am right ? What if I am completely right (not likely, but certainly possible). What then ? Blow the whole medical industry off on it's ear ? See the thing is that they are right sometimes too, it's just that I think they are wrong sometimes as well. They have been proven wrong, but then that is only if you believe the proof. Prove the proof. Then prove that the proof is proven. This can go on forever.

Knowledge is like a crystalline lattice of thought, when facts fit, they are believed. When they do not fit then who knows. I try to share my beliefs, and I have dismissed many crackpot theories out of hand.

One for example is the water guy. Claims that no matter what you do you are drinking disease markers or something. There is another water guy who claims that cancer is caused by the hydrogen bond angle being too acute. I read their ads, and their beliefs do not fit. If the water was no good for us we would die of many many things, not just cancer.

And there is another point, even if you are drinking those terrible "disease markers", so the fuck what ? A life of purity, never exposed to anything bad will get you an ineffective immune system.

Now the guy who talks about vaccinations harming the immune system, I will listen. This makes sense. And he doesn't make money or even try to make money off of it. It's simply an article. He is sharing his beliefs. Is he right ? Damn if I know, but it makes sense. That is all I can say.

Disagree with me, that is fine. In fact that is expected. Bring your views to the table (errr, OK you are doing that). Will you convince me that I am wrong ? You might. It has happened, and I am sure the last time has not yet occurred.

I think I am an expert in logic, and not that school boughten logic. I understand how hypotheses are formed, and experiments conducted. That is why I do not care for the water guy. "Long ago the hydrogen bond angle was 115 degrees and hardly anyone got cancer, now it is down to 108 degrees and as a result cancer is epidemic". Bullshit, the one thing, even if true, does not prove the other thing. This is way beyond post hoc ergo propter hoc.

I have seen alot more, but I do not bring up what I have dismissed as false or misleading (except just now).

Here is a fact, I used to have bad arthritis, I could not walk up and down stairs without excruciating pain. The fact is I changed how I eat, and now I can stand straight up form sitting on the floor with my legs crossed. That is fact my friends.

The way I changed my diet has changed my life. I don't even have to brush my teeth anymore. I do not get halitosis. My theory on that cannot be proven, but the indications are there. My theory is that tooth decay starts from the inside, not at the surface. Teeth are bones. In a normal person they actually never stop growing.

I had a chipped tooth since my pre-teen years, it is no longer chipped, that is a fact. I know this and I can feel it with my tongue right now. It was hit with a shovel as a buddy and I buried something in the backyard. This is all fact, I don't just think my tooth capped itself, it has.

If I could find a database of old Xrays, like back from when I got shot, and then get new Xrays I could prove it to you. But I can't. I could get a current Xray, but without the old Xrays, that simply does not add up to proof. So I will drop it, but I really do know a few things. I know I can walk, I know that my right incisor no longer has that nice sharp edge I used to strip wires with. I know these things, you either believe it or not.

Suck down those bags of potato chips and bowls of macaroni. Don't bother to eat meat. Forget green veggies. Go right ahead. Live on pizza and spaghetti. Go right ahead, it is your choice. When I did that, I went from being one of the tough motherfuckers in this town to being barely able to walk. My recovery from that was caused by something. Think my drastic changwe of diet might have had anything to do with it ?

I saw no doctors, I had no surgery. I took no injections of any wonder drug, or anything for that matter. So what is to account for my recovery ?

Apply your school boughten science to that. Tell me what you think. Do you think my change in diet had nothing to do with it, and that my body was just ready to fix my knee joints, regardless of my mineral intake ? If that is what you think you need new science.

The "facts" that I believe fit with other "facts". You can do any experiment you want, feed whiskey to lab rats to prove that cyclamates cause cancer. Feed llamas cow shit to prove global warming. Doesn't work.

The problem is that sometimes the wrong conclusions are drawn.

Here are some beliefs of mine. As they farm the same land year after year, the minerals are depleted. I believe that they fertilize because the plants will no longer grow. I believe that this costs them money. I believe that they fertilize with what the plants need to grow. I believe that the essential minerals to life are ultimately provided by plants for the most part. I believe that if the minerals we need are not in the soil in which the plants are grown, the resultant food will not have those minerals, because I believe that minerals are elements.

I believe that many minerals are needed for people to have good health. I believe that if you don't get them you will not be healthy. I believe that senate document 264 was correct. I believe there are alot of sick people in this country. I believe that this is not a good thing, and I believe that "they" don't want to do anything about it. I also believe that it may be impossible to fix because I believe that there are more people on this planet than it can support.

Pick me apart. DO IT ! Tell me that you can live on Mallow cups and potato chips and be healthy and live to be 100. Tell me how right it is to not eat right and expect a cure in a bottle of pills. Tell me pain killers are OK, that pain is NOT a signal by the body for the brain to send more resouces to the painful area. Tell me you can eat anything you want, the doctors can fix it.

Tell me that.

Now, where were we.............

T

(in reply to Driver1961)
Profile   Post #: 20
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