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RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 9:59:04 AM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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Nodding......the "forced girl" threatened the cop card when I finally decided I had enough,and she had to go. It was a bluff, but I could have ended up in serious trouble. Only the fact that I had a roomate who could witness otherwise-and her fear of me outing her to her chat circle (where she trolled for masters) over it-made her stop.

It would have ruined her chances at free rides down the line. Which is why when a sub here says "Oh don't worry about that" here.........Good lord, would you risk having YOUR life ruined by trying to facillitate someone's silly fantasy?

You have obviously never had to function in the role of a top.

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Post #: 21

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 10:00:57 AM

Delightb32

Posts: 18
Status: offline

quote:

ice on this topic. Many people fantasize about forced situations; it is quite a hot trigger for a lot of people, including me, and of course, I am well aware that in whatever I do, I am choosing to feel forced and I never abdicate anything, it is always my choice and my partners are aware of that.

In that way, you are being empowered by your own choices, not, as some have written, being a person who cannot face up to responsibility, how generalized of a statement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofKaos

I definatly don't look down on anyone for things they like. Everyone is different embrase who you are and don't care what anyone else thinks. Anyone who looks down on someone else because of their likes or dislikes or anything else for that matter are intolerant, and there not worth listening to them anyone. It surprises me that even people in this lifestyle can be intolerant of other people.

I do. I look down on lots of people for the things they like. There are people who love to murder, there are people who love to harm their children in order to get attention. Not everything is acceptable behavior and it's rediculous to pretend that it is. There are absolutes. However, not everything is wrong and someone's disapproval of an activity does not make that activity wrong. I do not think it is wrong to want to be a forced slave. However, it seems impratical given that it would be wrong to force someone to be your slave. In order to make having a "slave" acceptable, there must be that initial consent, and thus the force aspect goes away. Additionally, at any point that someone who previously wanted to be a slave expresses an honest change in desire, that person should be released, making the mask of force even more tenuous. That's what there's role play. I suggest you find someone who will allow you to immerse yourself in the feelings you desire as it would be the easiest, and safest, way for you to meet your expressed goals.

(in reply to slaveofKaos)

Post #: 22

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 10:10:20 AM

frazzle40

Posts: 56
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline

As a sub, the forced is a fantasy. If i dont feel sub to someone, it doesnt happen.
Ok being forced as 'role play' is different.

(in reply to Delightb32)

Post #: 23

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 10:12:26 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: untrainedKajira

Many people have said that it is wrong to want it, as some people believe it can be inhumane.
but what if thats what people need? i am someone wanting this and i have been looked down apon and i just have to ask,
Is it wrong to want to become a forced slave?

No, I'd not say it's *wrong* exactly... more of just plain unrealistic. It can be done, there is slavery still in this and similar countries, but I'm doubting that is actually what you're looking for. I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure what you want is to pretend you're forced, to roleplay that in life long-term.

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(in reply to untrainedKajira)

Post #: 24

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 10:17:56 AM

bipolarber

Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline

Hummm... I seem to recall that there are a few people currently on trial for keeping a girl as a "forced slave." Anyone else remember the details of this case? I think there were like five or six people, they kidnapped an undergrad, kept her in a cabin for like six weeks....?

I wasn't really paying attention to the case, since it was obviously a case of violent rape.... and that's about as far from BDSM as you can get.

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 25

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 10:23:09 AM

Shawn1066

Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Yes, it's wrong to want forced slavery. But luckily, that's not what you're looking for. You "want" this... so it's not really "forced," is it?

Yup, that's pretty much my view on the matter.

(in reply to bipolarber)

Post #: 26

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 10:49:06 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: untrainedKajira

Is it wrong to want to become a forced slave?

No it's not wrong it's just an illogical.
Enforced by defintion cannot be wanted and therefore is not part of bdsm
So I think it's probably more helpful to feel this as a desire to be pushed beyond your limits of sumission right now.
maybe I am wrong...
but I am currently feeling that the more i am controlled the more freedom i have....
the more I am pushed down the more elevated I bedome
it's like saying the more humiliated I am the more I choose to maitain my dignity......
I also view the dynamic this way....no one thus far has Mastered me....I have been dominated and yes submitted...but to Master me?
There is a great deal of me to contain. to encompass, to satisfy, to control, to break, to top, to be smarter than, to be better than in so many ways.......and so I have the ultimate choice to say no UNTIL I decide that I will not say no, never say no....that's a point in time.......that elevates me above those who do have more limits and who do have less stamina to serve.
And no there's nothing wrong in CHOOSING that.
Is that helpful?

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 11/7/2007 10:51:49 AM >

(in reply to untrainedKajira)

Post #: 27

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 10:50:59 AM

charlotte12

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline

When i first discovered this lifestyle at the age of 19 all my fantasies up to that point had been of being forced. It took me a long time to recognize that my desire to please and serve is a part of this for me too. I have now found someone who understands that i like being made to do things that i don't like. It is not the activity i'm doing but the act of being forced that makes me feel good. Completely forced slavery? No, not really possible if only because we live on a planet with laws designed to protect us from these things but with the right partner and a whole lot of self-awareness and communication there are ways to reach a level of consent that will leave much of what is done in that "forced" catagory. The key is not to rush into "forced" anything except roleplay (and even that can be scary) with people you haven't taken the time to fully know and trust.

I do know the more i tried to convince myself that my fantasies were "wrong" the more unhealthy i became and the more i started to reach towards dangerous means to achieve them since just telling myself i shouldn't feel this way was not enough to make the feelings go away. Just my 2 cents.

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(in reply to untrainedKajira)

Post #: 28

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 10:54:01 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

You have obviously never had to function in the role of a top.

I so agree.

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 29

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 11:51:58 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I don't think it is so strange that the OP is seeking advice on this topic. Many people fantasize about forced situations; it is quite a hot trigger for a lot of people, including me, and of course, I am well aware that in whatever I do, I am choosing to feel forced and I never abdicate anything, it is always my choice and my partners are aware of that.

In that way, you are being empowered by your own choices, not, as some have written, being a person who cannot face up to responsibility, how generalized of a statement.

As the OP is quite young, I believe a more thoughtful answer should be provided in this case; one given probably by more experienced submissives or slaves who have enjoyed the "forced" feelings than by Dominants who see this desire as a threat, instead of a fantasy that can easily be dealt with.

That is why the psychological aspect is so important; we can live out our fantasies without fear of reprisals if we are aware of each other's needs.

But you will note, sexy red...she did not mention a fantasy. What she stated was this....

Many people have said that it is wrong to want it, as some people believe it can be inhumane.
but what if thats what people need? i am someone wanting this and i have been looked down apon and i just have to ask,
Is it wrong to want to become a forced slave?

Nothing in that paragraph speaks of fantasy. And for once, I can utter this line...you don't quite understand the line that a man puts himself on when he decides to accomodate the want and desires of someone for whom the force isn't a fantasy but a real desire. Because what happens when she decides she no longer wants to be a "forced" slave?

I played with a girl who wanted to be "forced". With her, it was fantasy...she was submissive but she wanted to be "forced" through aspects of the scene. Very hot. But ... as has been noted on here by me before...when I woke up the next morning to the sound of my bag landing by my head and the words "You have 10 minutes to clear out of here or I am calling the cops and showing them how you assaulted me", it was MY ass and MY career and MY reputation on the line, not hers.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 11/7/2007 12:00:18 PM >

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 30

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 1:54:19 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: untrainedKajira

Many people have said that it is wrong to want it, as some people believe it can be inhumane.
but what if thats what people need? i am someone wanting this and i have been looked down apon and i just have to ask,
Is it wrong to want to become a forced slave?

If you ultimately provide consent while being aware of what you're doing and of proper mind set, then, meh, sure, it's fine. If you agree while drunk or not understanding what you're agreeing to, then it's not consent to continue forcing you to. It's morally questionable to take away someone's right to continually provide consent; then again, it's practiced in many contracts that obligate someone to a particular behavior in America. At the same time, those contracts are often over finicial matters, which aren't as dire as one's very ability to be otherwise free.

Wanting forced slavery without having the slave-to-be's consent first, though? That might be what people've been bashing in your past (haven't read other replies yet). Even if someone "needs" it, that's taking away what another might need and has a right to.. freedom. It's entirely selfish on the part of the person who takes it; highly both immortal and illegal.

(in reply to untrainedKajira)

Post #: 31

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 2:01:45 PM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline

i just have to say after reading this thread i am kind of enlightened about something.

i guess because i am just not wired to be a person who would ask to be forced and then cry foul afterward, i had never thought of it like this, but it is really enlightening to me what a Master must go through when deciding what to do and not to do to another.

i mean sure, i have heard stories of fakers/posuers and such, but once in a relationship with someone, who was desiring something, seeking it out, alot of times aggressively so, and then to flip the script on everything....wow....i just didn't think that it would be a concern.

Color me totally naive.

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cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

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Post #: 32

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 2:09:51 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

i just have to say after reading this thread i am kind of enlightened about something.

i guess because i am just not wired to be a person who would ask to be forced and then cry foul afterward, i had never thought of it like this, but it is really enlightening to me what a Master must go through when deciding what to do and not to do to another.

i mean sure, i have heard stories of fakers/posuers and such, but once in a relationship with someone, who was desiring something, seeking it out, alot of times aggressively so, and then to flip the script on everything....wow....i just didn't think that it would be a concern.

Color me totally naive.

Trust really needs to go both ways.

I used to think that simple rules and structure could solve evey problem and issue. That was me allowing myself to be programmed by stereotypes. It tripped me up in dealing with actual women-who would pay lip service to those ideals-but who didn't really want that in the end.

So that obviously wasn't working, and I was forced to adapt to more realistic dynamics. What I do now is communicate and test. If I see ANYTHING that causes a twinge in my gut-I will push on it like an absolute bastard..Because I am going to use the same intensity in going after the truth-as someone like this CLAIMS to want-but in ways that will NOT carry a legal consequence for me.

If I can push the emotional boundaries that hard-show the reality behind the fantasy.....and she doesn;t crack,doesn't have tantrums, doesn't fall apart..... I realize the possibility that I MAY be dealing with a mentally and emotionally stable person.

Even then, it's going to take time to convince me, and gain my trust.

It's a tweo way street ,and things are earned-not given.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 33

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 2:19:09 PM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Trust really needs to go both ways.

I used to think that simple rules and structure could solve evey problem and issue. That was me allowing myself to be programmed by stereotypes. It tripped me up in dealing with actual women-who would pay lip service to those ideals-but who didn't really want that in the end.

So that obviously wasn't working, and I was forced to adapt to more realistic dynamics. What I do now is communicate and test. If I see ANYTHING that causes a twinge in my gut-I will push on it like an absolute bastard..Because I am going to use the same intensity in going after the truth-as someone like this CLAIMS to want-but in ways that will NOT carry a legal consequence for me.

If I can push the emotional boundaries that hard-show the reality behind the fantasy.....and she doesn;t crack,doesn't have tantrums, doesn't fall apart..... I realize the possibility that I MAY be dealing with a mentally and emotionally stable person.

Even then, it's going to take time to convince me, and gain my trust.

It's a tweo way street ,and things are earned-not given.

This, i think, is helping to clarify some things in my mind...things that my Daddy is trying to teach (but he has a method that usually involves me stewing on it, disecting it, and waiting fo a long time, then figuring it out)(of course, in that process i am also attempting to accept and i am obeying)

He will occasionally just throw stuff out there, and he says that if those things are followed in the next day or so by some sort of meltdown on my part, then he knows that i am not ready to go there.

Before i sound like the type of female that you seem to be talking about, i will say in my own defense, that sometimes....usually....if i were more allowed to communicate, and if what i said to him was heard and acknowledged, then most of these meltdowns would not exist....not that i'd be meltdown free...but.. better)...Communication to me is a huge way of building trust, and when i can't communicate then my trust suffers and so does everything else.

Edited to add: Btw, i personally never actually have tantrums...or anything like that, i just get more quiet...and have alot of questions....seek a ton of clarity and maybe will cry.

< Message edited by daddyncherry -- 11/7/2007 2:23:18 PM >

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 34

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 2:31:44 PM

RRafe

Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline

cherry, be aware that he is learning to trust you TOO.

Which is why he is being so patient-he must see a lot of potential in you.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 35

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 3:25:05 PM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

Thankyou for bringing up two way trust.
Forcing someone to do something even if they have said that's what they want is very difficult and can be dangerous.
And if they haven't said it's what they want even more dangerous.
Not only because what you are doing is against the law but also because of the possible psychological implications.
When I have been asked for a rape scenario I have always gone into great detail about how it will happen and the 'victim' has always changed their minds. Ok I over egged the pudding a little lol.
But I have been forced as a newbie sub with no communication what so ever. I am still recovering.
As tops we can never know what someone wants because no matter how well or for how long you talk about something it is always different than the fantasy or different than with someone else.Or as Dominants within a D/s relationship we take the risk of pushing too hard and too fast or not hard enough or not fast enough.
It's impossible.
Will someone tell me again why we do it.

(in reply to RRafe)

Post #: 36

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 5:18:17 PM

miladyh

Posts: 64
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: untrainedKajira

Many people have said that it is wrong to want it, as some people believe it can be inhumane.
but what if thats what people need? i am someone wanting this and i have been looked down apon and i just have to ask,
Is it wrong to want to become a forced slave?

My own opinion...yes. To me, it speaks of someone who never wants to face up to their own decisions and bear the consequences of them. That may not be your mindset...you may well indeed come from the aspect of "I accept the responsibility for being forced into this...I chose to fight becoming a slave and was forced into it...he/she won and now I pay the price for what I wanted". But there again, if you want it, then you are making a choice...though a rather complex, mind-twisting one...to get to where you want to be and it is one that allows abdication of your responsibility in choosing a partner who will help you become what you want.

I like someone who takes responsibility for their choices. I would rather lay out what I am, what I like and don't like, act the way I do at all times and find out whether or not that dominant chord I strike resonates in harmonious accord with the strings within the submissive. Having her freely submit her will to me, even with occasional challenges either serious or playful, means much more than overpowering someone into doing something that I would always be reminding myself came from an initial position of unwillingness.

I would disagree with this...when I was with my previous master I begged him to take the control away from me, to make me feel submissive with his words and actions. It was what I needed and craved from him. He would not do it he told me I should "just be submissive" to him, to me that meant I dont want to be bothered having to try, you should just be sub. I felt we were in a kinky vanilla relationship the whole time. I want a strong man mentally that can do this...that can make me his slave, that can make me feel powerless by his presence alone.

Its not about not taking responsability for your personal actions or choices...its about feeling someone's power over you mentally knowing you would do what it is they are asking of you without a second thought. It is feeling them exerting their will over your own and knowing without a doubt you will bend.

*edited to notate that doing his will means within reason*

< Message edited by miladyh -- 11/7/2007 5:26:20 PM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 37

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 5:22:32 PM

kitttty

Posts: 494
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline

kajira, eh?

Look hon, if the guy who happens to force me into slavery is some rock hard barbarian warrior who wisks me off to some fanciful planet where we embark on our ultra romanticized notion of slavery, then Im all for forced slavery. Being that this isn't so likely, I think Ill stick to screening guys before I let them own me.

But hey, if forced slavery is what you want, there are plenty of maurading slavers running around darfour who would be more than happy to tie you up and rape you and whatnot. What's stopping you from moving? Maybe the fact that no one, *no one* really wants forced slavery.

(in reply to miladyh)

Post #: 38

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 5:26:15 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

i just have to say after reading this thread i am kind of enlightened about something.

i guess because i am just not wired to be a person who would ask to be forced and then cry foul afterward, i had never thought of it like this, but it is really enlightening to me what a Master must go through when deciding what to do and not to do to another.

i mean sure, i have heard stories of fakers/posuers and such, but once in a relationship with someone, who was desiring something, seeking it out, alot of times aggressively so, and then to flip the script on everything....wow....i just didn't think that it would be a concern.

Color me totally naive.

It happens...see my post.

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 39

RE: is it wrong to want forced slavery? - 11/7/2007 5:27:57 PM

MissMagnolia

Posts: 3636
Status: offline

Doesn't "forced" and "wanting" cancel each other out?

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(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 40

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