RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (Full Version)

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DesertRat -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 8:42:15 PM)

Hey, I thought the dude cried "uncle", or did I miss something? Kind of a stubborn, 'I'm still right' kinda "uncle", but still an admission that change is in order. Or did I read that wrong?

Bob




sirrand -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 9:00:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic



quote:

I suppose I misjudged the level of commitment of quite a few of the purported sub/slaves.



Owch.

Answer me this one though. Say one is under dirrect orders from one's owner -not- to use a title for anyone but the owner. Do you still read it as the same "lack of commitment"?


Perverseangel,

I have tried very hard to read every profile carefully, only a few times have I sent introduction letters to those who have been owned, mostly by accident or because I wanted to congratulate them on their writing skills. I am well aware that some Dom/Masters impose that rule, I have done that myself. So the question was not for them. It was for wannabes. Putting sub/slave at the top over time evolved into a test of their commitment. There commitment, to what they said they thought they were.

If they gave me grief for writing what they said they were, at the top of my letter, then it was an indication that they may not have understood how important to achieving their desire in finding a good Dom/Master, it was to correctly identify themselves. New sub/slave wannabe may not understand what they were making a commitment too. Nor what commitment the Dom/me/Master was taking when the Dom/me/Master took them at there word. With some rare exceptions the wannabes have no resources and the Dom/me/Master has to foot the bill for what ever happens. It behooves the Dom/me/Master to find some way to penetrate the mind and heart of the wannabes. My first inclination was to just ask, but then I realized they didn’t know for sure themselves. So what was I to do but devise a test to make them think and maybe react. How badly did they want to be my sub/slave? I just didn’t expect the vehemence of the reaction. With further refection I realized that the owned slaves of the community were setting the standard and the test results were invalid. So back to the drawing board, but first I had to find out why the vehemence. So I thank all for the data. Still not sure of the underlining reason for the hostility, but maybe enough info to devise another test. Anybody want to help.

A friend to the weak and a Master to the strong.
Sir Rand




sirrand -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 9:05:15 PM)

a special thanks to bob for his pithy remarks. Oh Bob don't Tango?




Fidelity -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 9:09:45 PM)

The issue is not really knowing who they are Rand.

Unfortunately, one has simply to take the time to get to know people. In a flow dynamic,I have found that many don't realize who they REALLY are without face to face interaction.

So the vehemence comes from confusion when one stirs up these feelings-and they struggle to deal with them. I actually think it is more about this-than the question itself. Reality can suck when you don't even have a connection to your own core.




darlingjade -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 9:10:38 PM)

I didn't read all of the thread but am simply throwing my two cents into the pot. As I see it, addressing me in the manner of "hi, sub" would not be demeaning as much as it would be taking one aspect of my character and deciding to address me that way rather than by my name.

Now, I see in your profile that a few of your grand passions are art, film directing and dancing. How weird would it be for you to addressed in the following manners without your consent or an established relationship?

Hello Artist,

Hello Director,

Hello Dancer,

Just something to consider.




sirrand -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 10:34:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darlingjade

I didn't read all of the thread but am simply throwing my two cents into the pot. As I see it, addressing me in the manner of "hi, sub" would not be demeaning as much as it would be taking one aspect of my character and deciding to address me that way rather than by my name.

Now, I see in your profile that a few of your grand passions are art, film directing and dancing. How weird would it be for you to addressed in the following manners without your consent or an established relationship?

Hello Artist,

Hello Director,

Hello Dancer,

Just something to consider.


actually I am very proud of those things I would hope you would address me as those things, as long as you included sir. LOL

SR




batty24546 -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 10:45:47 PM)

I have no problem being called what i am, the thing that tends to bother me is when compleate stranges use the terms as if i was theres. When in fact i am not. I am my mistress's, not thers. SHe can and dose call me sub/slave, and I am proud to be hers and to be recongized as her slave. There is nothing to do with not being proud of who i am, or being disrespectful to others.




DesertRat -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 10:51:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirrand

a special thanks to bob for his pithy remarks. Oh Bob don't Tango?


Of course I tango! Everyone in New Mexico tangos. Our state motto is "The Land of Tango Enchantment".

Bob




luvdragonx -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 11:18:46 PM)

Ok, I wasn't going to jump in here, as it seems so many have handled it beautifully thus far, but now I'm here.

quote:



I have tried very hard to read every profile carefully, only a few times have I sent introduction letters to those who have been owned, mostly by accident or because I wanted to congratulate them on their writing skills. I am well aware that some Dom/Masters impose that rule, I have done that myself. So the question was not for them. It was for wannabes. Putting sub/slave at the top over time evolved into a test of their commitment. There commitment, to what they said they thought they were.

If they gave me grief for writing what they said they were, at the top of my letter, then it was an indication that they may not have understood how important to achieving their desire in finding a good Dom/Master, it was to correctly identify themselves. New sub/slave wannabe may not understand what they were making a commitment too. Nor what commitment the Dom/me/Master was taking when the Dom/me/Master took them at there word. With some rare exceptions the wannabes have no resources and the Dom/me/Master has to foot the bill for what ever happens. It behooves the Dom/me/Master to find some way to penetrate the mind and heart of the wannabes. My first inclination was to just ask, but then I realized they didn’t know for sure themselves. So what was I to do but devise a test to make them think and maybe react. How badly did they want to be my sub/slave? I just didn’t expect the vehemence of the reaction. With further refection I realized that the owned slaves of the community were setting the standard and the test results were invalid. So back to the drawing board, but first I had to find out why the vehemence. So I thank all for the data. Still not sure of the underlining reason for the hostility, but maybe enough info to devise another test. Anybody want to help.
.


I know others have already let you have it with 'But I'm not YOUR sub'. So try this on, if you please.

I personally don't get violently offended necessarily when someone contacts me and addresses me as 'sub'. I am put off, however, because whoever is initiating contact is presuming a lot. Presuming that I don't have a proper name that distinguishes me from the other thousands of submissives out there. Presuming that I won't care that you won't bother to use a unique identifier when communicating with me, especially if you initiated contact. If you found my profile to be interesting and unique enough to email me, you can find me interesting and unique enough to call me by the name I have on file, until we enter into some other agreement.

I can then presume that you are the same kind of 'wanna-be' you speak of. There are countless 'wanna-be' doms who insist on using said titles. Many of us don't respond well to demands on addressing a complete stranger as Sir or Master. They have done nothing Domly or Masterly in our eyes. Yet they insist on us using the title. Are they then committed where we are not? Would you suggest to all new submissives to immediately revere any man who says 'I am Dom' just because he says he's one? Is that your answer to finding a good Dom/Master? I guess any woman who allowed you to call her 'sub' without issue is an automatic yes from you?

If you feel there's some litmus test for separating the 'real' subs from the 'wanna-bes', you'll be looking a long time. The overwhelming negativity to your approach should tell you something - it ain't workin'. It won't work. Pushing people's buttons just to see their reaction is a sure fire way to get your head bitten off, you shouldn't be surprised.





BeachMystress -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 11:23:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat


Of course I tango! Everyone in New Mexico tangos. Our state motto is "The Land of Tango Enchantment".

Bob




Desert Rat.. totally off topic.. I noticed in your posting to this topic that you've found your slave. Congratulations! See, told you those cute cats of yours would work *grins*




DesertRat -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 11:42:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat


Of course I tango! Everyone in New Mexico tangos. Our state motto is "The Land of Tango Enchantment".

Bob




Desert Rat.. totally off topic.. I noticed in your posting to this topic that you've found your slave. Congratulations! See, told you those cute cats of yours would work *grins*


Off topic? No, it was a direct reply to a comment from the OP. And thank you for the kind words. Unfortunately, she and I have parted company...but I still have the cats! *smiles*

Bob




BeachMystress -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/10/2005 11:54:53 PM)


LOL, nonono.. I was off topic, not you.

I'm sorry to hear things didn't work out. Don't worry, the cats will work their magic again. :-)




sirrand -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/11/2005 2:23:27 AM)

HA! HA! Bob your a hoot. Well I get to NM every once in awhile maybe we can find two slaves and go Tango the night a way.

Sir Rand




darlingjade -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/11/2005 12:36:40 PM)

Ummm, actually I wouldn't include the Sir since I only address one Dominant as Sir.




pinkpleasures -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/12/2005 6:47:25 AM)

i do not "get" this desparate need by some Doms and Masters to avoid using their first names while we are getting to know each other...and using my nick/first name as well. i don't see the insult/slight/etc....for one thing, the whole reason i'm talking to Them is to see whether W/we are possibly compatible and He is my One...so why would i offend Him? But i have too many men who get so annoyed they simply cannot sustain contact. Gee Whiz..i cannot understand why using an honorific You have not earned is so important. But hey...if You're that sensitive, W/we'd never make it anyway. i speak my mind..respectfully...but i do have one..i am not a doormat.

pinkpleasures




DesertRat -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/12/2005 6:58:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

i do not "get" this desparate need by some Doms and Masters to avoid using their first names while we are getting to know each other...and using my nick/first name as well. i don't see the insult/slight/etc....for one thing, the whole reason i'm talking to Them is to see whether W/we are possibly compatible and He is my One...so why would i offend Him? But i have too many men who get so annoyed they simply cannot sustain contact. Gee Whiz..i cannot understand why using an honorific You have not earned is so important. But hey...if You're that sensitive, W/we'd never make it anyway. i speak my mind..respectfully...but i do have one..i am not a doormat.

pinkpleasures



Well, we're not all like that. My first post to this thread addresses what you are saying, and others have said pretty much the same as me. Personally, I suppose I should be glad that I am competing with clueless, pigheaded Doms. Looking at some of their spelling and grammar, I think beer is a contributing factor. Guess I should be grateful for that, too, but I would prefer to see the level of interaction improve, even if it did make things more competitive.

Bob




nella -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/12/2005 8:05:32 AM)

Sir Rand

To call somone wannabe is perhaps not wise. You see that is somthing that is tworn around alos in this comunity, if you do no act,like, feel and do what some pepole think is right, you are considerd a wannabe. me forexaple, i have no idea how i would feare on a subliness test, perhaps i would fail, for i ahve idea, many in this lifestyle do not, and i am not a service sub, but i am werry dedicated.

Comitment to such as complex topic such as D/s is not somthing that is easy to messure, and there are no universal comitment tests. As for being called what you are, i am a magic practitioner, and some of my frinds and my Dom somtimes call me Witch, and i kind of like that. But even had i not liked to be refered to by such a word, that would not mean i would be a less dedicated occultist.




OsideGirl -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/13/2005 8:08:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat


I think beer is a contributing factor. Bob



ROFLMAO I love this!




IronBear -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/13/2005 8:38:54 AM)

I’m probably very old fashion in many ways (well I’m known for being quite Edwardian when I choose in both address and in writing), but I have this quaint idea that I can still exercise good manners when addressing sub/slaves whom I have just met or am contacting for the first time. I can recognise by how they refer to themselves or if its in reality if they are wearing a collar etc what their status is in the most part. I prefer to take the simple approach and ask them how they prefer to be addressed. This will, I believe, save much embarrassment later. In my opinion, my using courtesy does not in any way lessen my being a Master, but it does show that I recognise that I am not their Master. If they are collared, it also shows respect to the one whose collar they wear.


~ Grins at Desert Rat ~ Cats certainly do have that certain magick about them when you want to attract people who will fit in with you




nella -> RE: Why do sub/slaves not want to be called what they have declared they are? (8/13/2005 9:12:22 AM)

My mother always says, it cost so little to be polite, and it rewards both you and the other person grately in feeling well.




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