RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD”

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/11/2005 8:24:02 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

Or even her Master should have been there while the play was happening?

He was there....re-read the second post from her.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/12/2005 2:00:04 PM

dominmd

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Sorry, brain leak.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/12/2005 2:27:39 PM

whisperjade

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dominmd

Sorry, brain leak.

LOL - no, not a brain leak.....yes, He (my Master) was there but as We both agreed between each other in Our relationship, He will not interfere in the encounter unless He gets a signal from me - which i did not give Him yet - or i become incapacitated during the encounter. He was, Himself, in quite a dilemma as He wanted to end it long before but did not receive a signal from me as i, myself, was trying to push my own limits but it just became too much for me - pushing my own limits does not make me a "doormat" submissive. The clincher ended up being that the other dom did not/would not understand "red" even though we had all discussed it several times in general meetings together, as recent as earlier that evening during dinner with him.

again, i must thank you all for your supportive feedback - it won't get that far next time with anyone else......no way.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/12/2005 6:57:52 PM

dominmd

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If your Master would have stopped it, it would still have been ok seeing how the dom did not respect your safeword.

I can understand where Mercnbeth are coming from with the whole no safe word at all method. And I am curious as to how their version works.

< Message edited by dominmd -- 8/12/2005 6:59:01 PM >

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/12/2005 8:51:00 PM

subversiveone

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dominmd
there were some really interesting posts on this subject about a month and a half ago.
if memory serves correctly, memphisdscouple and cheekybottom were the originators...
see: RE: I trust You to hurt me - 5/31/2005 10:46:43 AM from cheeky and read memphis' replies

< Message edited by subversiveone -- 8/12/2005 8:54:11 PM >

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/13/2005 10:35:52 AM

sub4hire

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quote:

the whole no safe word at all method. And I am curious as to how their version works.

Doug and I don't have a safeword. Although we have also been together 6 and a half year's. We sort of know each other quite well.
Just as Merc has been together I believe two year's now. They know one another.

Problem with no safe words at all is a stranger is not going to know you. How can you communicate what we have learned from one another when that learning is not there?

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/13/2005 2:56:35 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

Mercnbeth are coming from with the whole no safe word at all method. And I am curious as to how their version works

It is easy actually, LOTS and LOTS and LOTS more communication, TRUST, exceeded only by honesty between the two of us, and time. The time aspect accounts for expanding limits and needs; not just for one of us but for both of us. Expanding limits are natural to a deepening emotional and physical bond.

I KNOW beth. she KNOWS me. There is no doubt between us. When we met I had a lot more lifestyle experience than she had. Could I have taken a short cut and explained to her the safe word method and it use? Of course. But over the years, no one has been able to explain how a submissive, especially a novice, can or should maintain the analytical ability to determine a safe word is needed. The whole purpose of submission is to give in to another, to trust another, and to let yourself freely experience what is happening to your body, and more importantly, (at least to me) you mind.

I took the time to study beth, body and mind. I made sure I knew enough about her to appreciate when I was venturing into areas where I had to tread slowly. Again, this is especially important regarding her past bad emotional experiences as well as bad physical experiences. I still do. Yet every day she submits deeper, every day our relationship grows.

As with limits, it's really a misnomer to say a slave like beth has not limits. she has limits - mine. And she also has a safe-word - me. The reason it doesn't work for all is that they don't want to take the time to accomplish this.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/13/2005 8:28:08 PM

RosaB

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quote:

i won’t go into details about the other things he did that angered me out of respect for him but the lack of his respecting my using the “red” term is imperative.

You are way to generous, he doesn't deserve your respect. He sounds dangerous. Or was he a novice? If so, lets hope he didn't get back in touch, as yet, because he's remorseful and too embarassed. But, regardless, you deserved better than what he offered up.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/13/2005 10:27:09 PM

NickInSLC

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I don't know about the rest of the world. But where I play, failure to respect a safeword is cause to be immediately escorted from the party by force and permanently blacklisted.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/14/2005 10:21:04 AM

itzelwing

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quote:

I KNOW beth. she KNOWS me. There is no doubt between us. When we met I had a lot more lifestyle experience than she had. Could I have taken a short cut and explained to her the safe word method and it use? Of course. But over the years, no one has been able to explain how a submissive, especially a novice, can or should maintain the analytical ability to determine a safe word is needed. The whole purpose of submission is to give in to another, to trust another, and to let yourself freely experience what is happening to your body, and more importantly, (at least to me) you mind.

I took the time to study beth, body and mind. I made sure I knew enough about her to appreciate when I was venturing into areas where I had to tread slowly. Again, this is especially important regarding her past bad emotional experiences as well as bad physical experiences. I still do. Yet every day she submits deeper, every day our relationship grows.

As with limits, it's really a misnomer to say a slave like beth has not limits. she has limits - mine. And she also has a safe-word - me. The reason it doesn't work for all is that they don't want to take the time to accomplish this.

Please don't take this wrong, but I have to take some issue with this statement. Remember that every couple, BDSM or vanilla, is different, and we all have different needs.

Kat and I have been together for nine wonderful years. And we still play with safewords.

Is it because I haven't taken time to learn her "body and mind"?

Hardly. Learning her, inside and out, has been a major part of my role...not only as her dominant but as her lover and friend. We are not a 24/7 M/s couple, but BDSM is a HUGE part of who and what we are.

To the best of my memory, she has never used her safeword with me. I have, so far, always known when she's had enough and when to push for a little more. And that point varies from day to day. But... the safeword is always there just in case. When she bottoms, it is important for her to always know that she still holds the key. She still has to trust that I will let her use it, but if things go too far, she can stop them with a simple signal.

Does this mean our scenes are not really "total power exchange"? I dunno. I don't care. There's an awful lot of power exchanged, and if it's not "total", it's enough for us. I do know, or at least feel, that she gives herself up to me completely.

Is the safeword a security blanket? Maybe. Does everyone need to use one? No. But the implication that safewords are unnecessary, or worse, that "real, experienced" players don't use them is misleading and potentially dangerous.

A lot of people come to boards like this to learn, and I think it's imperative to those of us who have been at this a while to consider the lessons we provide when we converse on these topics. It strikes me that while we all should feel free to discuss our own styles, we should also keep it very clear that our ways are not the only ways...

Safe, Sane, and Consensual. Those should be the only rigid rules to which we adhere. All else is personal preference.

That's my opinion, and it's offered free of charge. You get what you paid for.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/14/2005 5:08:52 PM

whisperjade

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quote:

I took the time to study beth, body and mind. I made sure I knew enough about her to appreciate when I was venturing into areas where I had to tread slowly. Again, this is especially important regarding her past bad emotional experiences as well as bad physical experiences. I still do. Yet every day she submits deeper, every day our relationship grows.

As with limits, it's really a misnomer to say a slave like beth has not limits. she has limits - mine. And she also has a safe-word - me. The reason it doesn't work for all is that they don't want to take the time to accomplish this.

again, i am appreciate of all the feedback...please keep in mind that this was NOT with my own Master....it was with another dom that joined Us. Of course, it goes without saying that my Own knows me best and i know Him.....i never need a safe word with Him nor have i needed one with any other dom that We have had join Us.

in fairness, i have heard back from the other dom and he has given me opportunity to give my feedback to him and i did. let's hope he'll learn something from it.

whisper

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/14/2005 9:47:49 PM

NickInSLC

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I think it's commendable that you give this fella the benefit of the doubt. But the simple fact is, disrespecting a safeword is highly dangerous and extremely disrespectful.

I am from the camp that doesn't like to use safewords. I don't feel that they convey enough information. I prefer to use constant open communication. But just the same, I still honor safewords.

Just imagine how your scene would have played out if you had been playing with this guy one on one in a private setting. That's just plain unacceptable. Like I said before, in the group I belong to, this guy would have been physically thrown out and blacklisted for life.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/15/2005 7:57:16 AM

Mercnbeth

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Amazing, the question was posed as to why I and beth do not use a safeword. The answer wasn't an attempt to set a standard or critique anyone else. I would ask, have you ever asked your submissive how she monitors her need to safeword? Per you she hasn't used it, but if it's there, there must be a reason and in some fashion must be considered by both of you during your "play".

But that may be the difference, captured by this quote:

quote:

And we still play with safewords.

We live this life, we don't play at it.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/15/2005 1:35:35 PM

InsomniaNow

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Being also from SLC, as Nick is I can say that somebody not respecting the use of a safeword would indeed result in a life long blacklisting.

That being said, I am also one that doesn't like to use safewords.. First, outside of a scene where the bottom wants to be able to scream "No!" "Please stop!", to enrich the scene i.e. fantasy rape. A Safeword isn't really needed.. The word "stop" will suffice nicely.

Second, when I play I like to be connected enough to the bottom, that I know how they are feeling. Sometimes this has to be done verbally..

It's amazing how effective it can be to notice when the bottom is beginning to tense up, and to walk up and gently touch them, showing compassion. Not only do they get comfort but it also builds trust, they can see that your paying attention and care! It has happened before and will happen again where I have somebody who tenses up and when I touch them, they don't relax.. Generally this tells me there is a trust issue, and I cut the scene short.

At the level of play I participate in, it's not uncommon for a bottom to become non-verbal. In this situation if I was to rely on a safeword to know when to stop, It could be very dangerous.

It would seem this guy that disrespected the use of safewords is an inexperienced player, the scene should have ended far before it did and an experienced player should have known that.

I am far more likely to trust a doctor who is fresh out of medical school, than I am to trust a guy who's been practicing medicine for 20 years with out the education. That's something we see often in the SM community players who do this stuff with out any education.

In SLC we have the best SM education available anywhere, and it results in very excellent players...

Andrew

quote:

ORIGINAL: NickInSLC

I think it's commendable that you give this fella the benefit of the doubt. But the simple fact is, disrespecting a safeword is highly dangerous and extremely disrespectful.

I am from the camp that doesn't like to use safewords. I don't feel that they convey enough information. I prefer to use constant open communication. But just the same, I still honor safewords.

Just imagine how your scene would have played out if you had been playing with this guy one on one in a private setting. That's just plain unacceptable. Like I said before, in the group I belong to, this guy would have been physically thrown out and blacklisted for life.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/15/2005 4:43:45 PM

whisperjade

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"It would seem this guy that disrespected the use of safewords is an inexperienced player, the scene should have ended far before it did and an experienced player should have known that."

i sincerely hope, InsomniaNow, that was not meant as an critiquing insult towards either me or my Master - i fully explained WHY the encounter went on so long.......i agree, i should have ended long before but i also had my reasons for allowing it to go on.....the issue i presented was not about how long the encounter went but the basic fact that he disrespected ALL my verbal terms for the encounter to stop.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/16/2005 4:04:56 PM

sweetpettjenny

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Stop means Stop simple as that

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 8/19/2005 7:00:42 PM

MistressGrace07

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Oh man.. disrespecting the safe word is DANGEROUS... obviously that person would be written off My play list forever (if I was a sub or if it was My sub..). This is why I encourage subs to play in a public play space the first time with Someone.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 10/27/2006 12:03:39 AM

Mistressnfantasy

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sometimes i play with submissives that i think could do more with .. and occasionally wish that they would let me push them further........but then I check myself and always remeber that everyone is at a different level to me and may not be reaqdy for that ... especially if they are uttering the safe word ...........thus one must respect all peoples wishes..

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 10/27/2006 7:35:54 AM

ToGiveDivine

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Being Dominant doesn't make a person 100% right even though it appears some do think that way.

This is a no brainer, he (notice no capitalization for him) was wrong, You were right - avoid him because You deserve better.

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RE: DISRESPECTING “RED”/”STOP”/”SAFE WORD” - 10/28/2006 9:19:38 PM

MistressSassy66

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I would not session/scene with someone who does not respect you using safe words.

I dont session/scene with submissives that say they dont use them.

Its doesnt go SAFE,Sane and Consentual for nothing.

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