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would you give someone another chance? - 8/8/2005 9:33:13 PM   
justatoy2


Posts: 163
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		If you had a submissive who lied to you about something. Would you give him/her another chance? Does it ever matter the reasons why? Or is it just better to cut your losses and move on.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/8/2005 10:04:17 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justatoy2

If you had a submissive who lied to you about something. Would you give him/her another chance? Does it ever matter the reasons why? Or is it just better to cut your losses and move on.


I have been there and its not a great feeling to find that something told to you about the slave when she was collared on line was in fact a lie (told me this in her email begging release), lets just say it bloody well, hurt. Would I give her another chance?…. That would depend entirely on the situation. There would need to be a lengthy re-getting-to-know-you period. There would have to be a situation occur when I could say “Ok, I’m prepared to see if we can make it work.” I just don’t like saying “never”, because that is a long time and people do change. You’d have to do something really nasty for me to lock the door in your face.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/8/2005 10:04:42 PM   
CalliopePurple


Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline 		It depends on a lot of things including how big the lie was, the reason for the lie, if I uncovered the truth on my own or if it was confessed to me, and if there is genuine remorse for misleading me.

I'll take an example from a past relationship. He asked me if I was a virgin, I told him I was because I didn't want to get into the long story explaining that technically, I wasn't, but biologically I was (intact hymen). I also didn't feel comfortable enough with him at that point to explain that it was with a person related to me by marriage, not blood.

He learned when my sister, thinking he knew already, started talking about it to him. Understandably, the first reaction was hurt. I hadn't intended to hurt him, merely keep hidden one of the things I've done that I'm not proud of. Our relationship survived that, lasted another ten months in fact.

If the roles were reversed and I learned of a lie of that nature, I'd like to think that I'd be relatively understanding because of my own tendency (that I'm working on) to lie when the truth might make someone think less of me. I'm fairly forgiving, though, so I'd probably give the person, whether it was a vanilla relationship or a D/s one, another chance to prove that s/he can be trusted.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/8/2005 10:19:32 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		If trust has been broken between me and another person, a few things have to happen in order for the relationship to be close again:

They have to show me they understand exactly what they did wrong, how it affected me, and are truly sorry for not only the thing itself but for how it damaged the relationship.

They have to show me they are really ACTING on that understanding and making a change for the better.

I have to want to risk the emotions again.

Just remember that forgiveness does not entail reverting back to the way things were. Things will never be the way things were. They CAN possibly reform scar tissue and continue. But it's a difficult process that usually is not worth the initial breach of trust.

(in reply to justatoy2)
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RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/8/2005 10:33:11 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline 		Yes, I would, in many cases. But in others, considering the enormity of lies and the harm caused, to do so would be foolish at least, maybe even dangerous.

Bob

< Message edited by DesertRat -- 8/12/2005 8:35:28 AM >

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/8/2005 10:53:57 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		It depends. If she admitted to me that she had lied before I discovered it on my own, I would keep her. If I discovered on my own that she had lied, I would not keep her.

My reasoning is this. Everyone makes mistakes, and it's possible to make a bad decision and lie about something. But then it's your responsibility to acknowledge that you made a mistake and to tell the other person that you lied--because if you don't, you are continuing to lie as long as the other person doesn't know. And that's no longer just a mistake; that's a willful attempt to disrupt the relationship.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: justatoy2

If you had a submissive who lied to you about something. Would you give him/her another chance? Does it ever matter the reasons why? Or is it just better to cut your losses and move on.


(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/8/2005 11:56:09 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

If trust has been broken between me and another person, a few things have to happen in order for the relationship to be close again:

They have to show me they understand exactly what they did wrong, how it affected me, and are truly sorry for not only the thing itself but for how it damaged the relationship.

They have to show me they are really ACTING on that understanding and making a change for the better.

I have to want to risk the emotions again.

Just remember that forgiveness does not entail reverting back to the way things were. Things will never be the way things were. They CAN possibly reform scar tissue and continue. But it's a difficult process that usually is not worth the initial breach of trust.

Emerald pretty much took the words out of my mouth. The only thing I will add to it is that even given the above whether or not I will give them a second chance depends also on how much hurt the lie caused. Lies are often used to cover up actions, and if those actions and the lie(s) caused enough hurt that I simply can't get past it emotionally I'll be honest with the person about that and move on. But in cases of anything less than that, Emerald's stately nicely outlines what my expectations would be.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 2:09:27 AM   
HalloweenWhite


Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear


quote:

ORIGINAL: justatoy2

If you had a submissive who lied to you about something. Would you give him/her another chance? Does it ever matter the reasons why? Or is it just better to cut your losses and move on.


I have been there and its not a great feeling to find that something told to you about the slave when she was collared on line was in fact a lie (told me this in her email begging release), lets just say it bloody well, hurt. Would I give her another chance?…. That would depend entirely on the situation. There would need to be a lengthy re-getting-to-know-you period. There would have to be a situation occur when I could say “Ok, I’m prepared to see if we can make it work.” I just don’t like saying “never”, because that is a long time and people do change. You’d have to do something really nasty for me to lock the door in your face.


Find out why they lied and decide for yourself if you want to give them another chance.



HalloweenWhite.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 3:08:37 AM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Having a lie come forth and be honest would subject the submissive to being punished. I'm a sadist and a punisher. Why waste the opprotunity to make the sub never want to lie again? If the punishment didn't work the 2nd time, there would be a deffinet discussion of the realationship with a 9 out of 10 chance that the realationship would be over. Comming forth with admitance is good but should still bare consiquinces. After all this is a realationship of trust and understanding but we aren't playing base ball. It would take one hell of a conveincing plea to get a chance for strike three.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 4:56:28 AM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline
I do not tolerate lies, and they are total deal breakers. The reason behind them doesn't matter. Be honest with me. We'll either get through whatever the problem was or we won't, but the integrity of the relationship will be intact. If I can't trust someone I don't want them holding a spot of intimacy in my life.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 6:33:07 AM   
ChereeAmoor


Posts: 185
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		You have heard of the old rule of "Three strikes and you're out". There is a pretty good reason for it. If something happens once, it is an event. If the same thing happens again, it is a coincidence. If it happens for the third time, now you have a pattern, and patterns of behavior are the absolute boogers.

I personally do not believe in coincidences. But I do believe that everybody deserves a second chance, no matter what they have done or said. Sometimes, when a person LEAST deserves understanding and compassion and a second chance, that is when they need it the MOST - does that make sense?

We have all screwed up a time or two, we have all been forgiven for it, and as long as we learned, then it was worth the price paid.

(in reply to BeachMystress)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 6:44:50 AM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		We all tell our truth as we see it.
What was the truth yesterday might not be the truth today.
But then, it does depend on the truth, the honesty and the manner in which one does lie.
Some truths are black and white.

I believe out right deception, thus the motive for a lie, is far more greivious.
I have been lied to, deceived and have done the same. The motivation is, IMHO, is the crux of the situation.

If the motivation is pure or the motivation is out right "evil" (for lack of better words)...the receiver must make the choice.

We can say we hate, loathe, detest liars.....but then we lie and do not the truth (our truth or the legal truth), we dont hate ourselves, we justify it.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
If i seek forgiveness it is unilateral. If i seek genuine discussion of why, looking at the motive, then forgiveness and accountability can be bilateral.

There are some lies and actions which should never be told or done. Period.
Bilaterally forgiving is restoring the relationship and the trust and respect must then be rebuilt. Guarding ones heart from anothers words and actions is not necessarily distrustful, it is building up trust until full trust is gained.

Yes, i do have many examples of all of this. As do all of you.

Just remember to judge a lie, one must look within themselves and say, do i have the right to judge, not knowng all the facts when my own back yard has lies and deception within it?
When you point a finger, 3 remain pointed in your direction.

Bilaterally forgivng is a risk and only an indvidual decides if that risk is worth taking.

I will not lie about this...i have been on both ends. If you look within, you will agree, you have to.

~~shy
(feeling quite philosophical this morning)


_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 6:56:24 AM   
slavedesires


Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justatoy2

If you had a submissive who lied to you about something. Would you give him/her another chance? Does it ever matter the reasons why? Or is it just better to cut your losses and move on.


Let's reverse this, shall we?
If you had a Dominant who lied to you about something, would you give him/her another chance? Does it matter the reason why? Or is it just better to cut your losses and move on.

Cutting losses and moving on will never better either one involved. Understanding the situation, take responsiblity for the wrong done AND the response to the situation, then moving on will promote growth in both....but many do NOT want to take responsiblity.... many do not want to deal with the bitterness, resentfulness and revengeful response...many do not want to take responsiblity that they choose to lie or deceive.
Thus we carry baggage into the next relationship based on not dealing with, taking responsiblity for the emotions, and we do ourselves and the next one who enters our lives a great disservice.

i hope i explained this thought well ....
if not ....lolol....someone will find fault and i will find the words to better explain.

~~shy

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 6:57:34 AM   
gentlesurrender


Posts: 99
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		it has all been said

and i very much concur that to judge someone, first judge yourself

there was an survey done about lieing and it brought forth the conclusion that everyone of us lies every day.

be it lies of, do you like my new hair do, oh yes very nice (not)
to partners lieing about what and where they are going
to lieing about surprises for people
to bending the truth to get others out of trouble

it all depends on the lie and the impact it has. When my ex-husband had an affair it was totally dishonest and disceitful, but i loved him and forgave him. But in all the time of growing the oak tree of trust, it took all over seconds to hack it down. Can you surmount the challenges ahead, do you want too is really the question.

I would agree with the 3 strikes and your out, at some stage you just have to realise that the person is lieing or being deceiptful then there is a problem in the relationship.

wishing you well with your decision

_____________________________

We're never so vulnerable than when we trust someone - but paradoxically, if we cannot trust, neither can we find love or joy" Walter Anderson

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 7:00:16 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		It depends on the seriousness of the matter and the potential or real damage of the lie.
Easy answer is "Yes", because everyone makes mistakes. I have been told lies that I found unforgivable, so while we later became friends, lovers we could never be again. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 7:27:02 AM   
justatoy2


Posts: 163
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		thank you all for your responses. I am not going to go into great details about this situation, but i will say the lie was done to me, it was pretty darn serious, but this person and i have been close for over 5 years. I feel torn and conflicted. My nature is to forgive, but this friend lied an decieved me. Although now wants forgiveness i don't know how truly sorry she is. Thanks again for your input.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 8:31:12 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		How did you find out about the lie? Did she come to you with it? Or did you discover it on your own? As I've said, to me that makes a big difference.

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 8:32:39 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		For me I didn't focus on the specific wording the OP used of "lie" and noted in my first post that I changed it to "broke trust."

Not every lie breaks trust necessarily, but I think it's when trust is broken that we need to consider the question of "do we try again?"

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 9:14:59 AM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		BDSM relationships are ALL about trust.
NO they lied that creates a shadow of doubt.
I do not think its repairable.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to justatoy2)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: would you give someone another chance? - 8/9/2005 10:51:19 AM   
tinkJH


Posts: 180
Joined: 5/22/2005
Status: offline 		I probably did one of the worst of all possible things, to master. I won't go into details. I lied about something and I kept up the lie for about 8 months. Until one day I just couldnt do it anymore, I didn't know how to, and I just plain didn't want to anymore. And before I began the lie.. I had spent almost three months pushing him away from me, trying to just.. vanish. The amount of crap he put up with from me - and then that lie.. I simply can't explain why.

How I am still here? Hell if I know. He gave me a second chance.. and knowing, realizing what I had lost.. and was allowed back - was enough. It's been... two and a half years since that incident. I've not lied or kept anything from him since. Nor would I.

_____________________________

"I know you didn't bring me out here to drown,
so why am I ten feet under and upside down..? " (Lifehouse ~ Storm)


~the everyday rantings of a still learning mommy slave~
http://brazendreams.blogspot.com/

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
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