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Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can you compromise?


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Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can you c... - 8/9/2005 12:35:35 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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One of the reasons I think some people (especially male submissives) have trouble finding an appropriate femdom partner (for a long term relationship) is that they do not understand their own submissive "appetite" -- either from lack of experience, or having "eyes bigger than stomach" so to speak.

What is your kinky appetite, and how willing are you to compromise for the right person (ie, this person had all the other things you wanted in a long term relationship)? Instead of getting into confusing words like TPE or 24/7 or "lifestyle" -- what if you instead defined it as "Appetite"?

How often do you need it? That's a simple question.

Some male submissives have an ideal that they'd be dominated quite often --every night, for example, or "all the time" when at home. They would be forced to dress up, endure floggings, strap on play and bondage after work regularly. How realistic is this? For both people? And, has this submissive ever sustainted this pace in a relationship, or does it just "sound good"?

Are people shying away from saying things like, "I think I'd want to have some power exchange once a week at least, or 5 or 6 times a month" because it doesn't sound lifestyle-enough, or doesn't give justice to the unsaid, unspoken "who is in control" aspect of the rest of the relationship? Lots of people on the net seem to scoff at terminology like "how often do you need to play" or "how many scenes do you want to do a week" because it, to them, perhaps doesn't give justice to the "lifestyle dynamic."

But simply stated, in most relationships aren't power exchange "experiences" threaded together regardless of whether you maintain the power control dynamic "all the time" or the opposite -- have no assumed roles of power in between "sessions"? The act of restraining someone, using implements and having a clear BDSM "act" -- whether it be 20 minutes or 2 hours -- is an important thing to recognize and measure when you are considering a partner.

If you compared it to vanilla sex, isn't it like asking a potential partner flat out -- "What's your sexual appetite? How many times a week do you have sex?" It should be a simple question, and one that everyone has an answer to (whether they are honest or not, that's a different issue). In a BDSM sense, if you ask that kind of a question, it gets muddied. The vanilla version of the muddied response is, "Well...that's hard to say. I mean I'm *always* loving on my partner, where does it start and end? A long kiss in the middle of the evening, maybe I'll steal a few moments to tease her nipples in the car, sometimes we'll neck and get into heavy petting at a movie theater...so, I guess I would say ALL THE TIME. I like to make love all the time."

If a submissive can honestly state how often they "need it" without feeling like they need to say "oh, all the time, I'm the real deal, it is who I am" -- and, without thinking like a horny teenager who has been asked the vanilla sex question, "Oh I want to have sex three times a day, every single day, for the rest of my life." Be realistic, ok?

I think for someone who has had some BDSM experience, they should be able to identify how their BDSM appetite runs. How often, what kind of interaction, when does the need turn from an urge to a nagging distraction, how long they can go without, and what constitutes a full "release" and a successful "session". Do these seem like irrelevant types of questions? Are they questions that in some cases cannot be answered?

Akasha



< Message edited by AAkasha -- 8/9/2005 12:36:40 PM >

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 1:32:23 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

What is your kinky appetite, and how willing are you to compromise for the right person (ie, this person had all the other things you wanted in a long term relationship)?


I've always maintained that the WHO is more important than the WHAT. With the right person I'm quite flexible about the WHAT as long as there is a strong D/s component. Throw in some yummy pain and I'm good to go. Even the simplest of play can be elevated when done with someone you have an emotional and psychological connection with.

quote:


Instead of getting into confusing words like TPE or 24/7 or "lifestyle" -- what if you instead defined it as "Appetite"?


I'm not sure that would be helpful. I think there are already enough euphemisms and acronyms in WIITWD (see? LOL). I don't think more would be better.

quote:


How often do you need it? That's a simple question.


Not so simple really. There are times in my life when I crave it with significantly more intensity than I do at others. Sometimes it's a roaring fire, other times just embers waiting to spark.

quote:


If you compared it to vanilla sex, isn't it like asking a potential partner flat out -- "What's your sexual appetite? How many times a week do you have sex?" It should be a simple question, and one that everyone has an answer to (whether they are honest or not, that's a different issue). In a BDSM sense, if you ask that kind of a question, it gets muddied. The vanilla version of the muddied response is, "Well...that's hard to say. I mean I'm *always* loving on my partner, where does it start and end? A long kiss in the middle of the evening, maybe I'll steal a few moments to tease her nipples in the car, sometimes we'll neck and get into heavy petting at a movie theater...so, I guess I would say ALL THE TIME. I like to make love all the time."


There's a difference between the nice gestures and fucking. IMO, we'd all be better off without the sacchariney ideal of "making love" for precisely this reason - It muddies things up. People either want to make every act of love into 'making love' or they want to use 'making love' as an excuse to justify sex. Sex for the sake of sex is just fine, no justifications necessary. In 13 years the DH and I have never used that phrased as we both think it is so overused as to be meaningless. It hasn't seemed to have dampened how we feel about each other one iota or made or sex life shallow. </meaningless digression>

quote:


If a submissive can honestly state how often they "need it" without feeling like they need to say "oh, all the time, I'm the real deal, it is who I am" -- and, without thinking like a horny teenager who has been asked the vanilla sex question, "Oh I want to have sex three times a day, every single day, for the rest of my life." Be realistic, ok?


I agree. I think Dominants need to be realistic as well and not fall into the "I'm all Dom/me all the time!" type of trap either. No one will dominate every single second of every single day.

quote:


Do these seem like irrelevant types of questions? Are they questions that in some cases cannot be answered?


No, they are very relevant. I think these questions CAN be answered but they require people to (a) dispense with all their fantasy notions of what BDSM is like and (b) have even a modicum of self awareness so that they can be honest with themselves (and therefore their partner, too) about who they are and what they want.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 8/9/2005 1:34:12 PM >

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 1:34:48 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha



There is so little that turns out to have been worth taking the time to read in forums like this. Thanks for a penetrating exception.

Noah

< Message edited by Noah -- 8/9/2005 3:55:46 PM >

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 1:37:34 PM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		For me, my apitie involves signs of submission, being given pain and often i also like the comfort aspect afterwards, i must also say i like kinky sex, as for how often, idont know, smal things, pretty often, full sessions, once a month perhaps, somthing like that.

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 1:44:49 PM   
RosaB


Posts: 852
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		NM

< Message edited by RosaB -- 8/13/2005 12:39:55 PM >

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 1:59:55 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I don't think it's more or less complicated in vanilla life. It's just about finding your compatibilities and seeing if things mesh "well enough" so everyone feels fulfilled. Most healthy relationships fit amazingly well in the key areas, pretty well in everything else, and a few areas they don't mesh well or grate on eachother.

I agree that it's simply a time, experience and practice, which is why novices tend to have a hard time of it.

(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 2:52:01 PM   
darlingjade


Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline 		First, great topic!!!


quote:

I think for someone who has had some BDSM experience, they should be able to identify how their BDSM appetite runs. How often, what kind of interaction, when does the need turn from an urge to a nagging distraction, how long they can go without, and what constitutes a full "release" and a successful "session". Do these seem like irrelevant types of questions? Are they questions that in some cases cannot be answered?


I think they're great, fundamental questions that should be asked and answered honestly in any negotiation so that both partners needs are being met.

That having been said, as a submissive, a lot of my needs tend to shift and change to suit those of my partner's. The ones that don't are the ones that I'm very specific about and try to bring to the attention of anyone I'm considering entering into service to.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 3:10:27 PM   
pandoravampire


Posts: 374
Joined: 12/6/2004
Status: offline 		How frequent is need to play, has been very dependant on my partner of the time, and how throroughly i was exercised the last time we played. Some scene's leave me satisified for much longer than others. Perhaps this is because the longer lasting scenes, for me at least, tend to be the ones that push the most buttons. The more complex and addressing of our needs, the longer the satisfaction from the scene lasts for us both. And we both have a well earned rest.

But a absolute base line of i NEED to play once a week. If not, i get twitchy, antsi, gobby, frustrated and unpleasant to be around. A scene balances me out, smooths my creases, bonds us once again and things settle down, for about 5 days.

In the meantime, i have other sexual needs that need addressing more often. I have a habit of orgasming daily. Im not fussed if thats on my own, or if He would like to join in. Better if he joins in, but it doesnt necessarily have to be bdsm, its a orgasm, not a masterpiece in the making.
My ex, was a twice a month person - a tremendous strain on our relationship. And because of that knowledge of how badly i cope without sex, i was open and honest about my need for sex, and my need for bdsm, their intensities and frequencies. I asked the same questions of Him too.
Having a high libido, is a strain for some parnters to cope with. Its important to be honest in this early discussion/negotiation process. But pride and ego often make this impossible i guess.

i have also been in a long term relationship, where i was the one without a libido. I was the 'twice a month if i have to'. This resulted in not being able to bend over to pick something off the floor without his hands running up my skirt. I began to resent him pretty quickly indeedy. Twice a month if i have to was the result. His libido was so huge, there was never enough space for my tiny baby one at the time to grow and develop. Had he stood back, allowed me space, would of discovered that it wasnt sex that was the turn off, it was simply that vanilla, did sod all to float my boat. He would of been thrilled at the bdsm side of developments, but it was vanilla through and through, including the communication style = zero!

Since being in a relationship where we live together, our bdsm needs are also able to be fulfilled without sex. A powerexchange within a D/s framework, where my limits are pushed, yet no sex occurs is a mighty satisfying evening in - i can tell ya. And i dont yearn for sex after, it satisfies my need to be dominated, my need to submit and visa versa. If these needs are adressed thus, then the need for sexual play is greatly reduced. Always a delight, but sometimes, life gets in the way of sex (ie.kids, visitors etc) but a serious discussion doesnt make that much noise lol.

good thread!




(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 8:41:59 PM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

But simply stated, in most relationships aren't power exchange "experiences" threaded together regardless of whether you maintain the power control dynamic "all the time" or the opposite -- have no assumed roles of power in between "sessions"? The act of restraining someone, using implements and having a clear BDSM "act" -- whether it be 20 minutes or 2 hours -- is an important thing to recognize and measure when you are considering a partner.

snip

I think for someone who has had some BDSM experience, they should be able to identify how their BDSM appetite runs. How often, what kind of interaction, when does the need turn from an urge to a nagging distraction, how long they can go without, and what constitutes a full "release" and a successful "session". Do these seem like irrelevant types of questions? Are they questions that in some cases cannot be answered?


Good question. In My relationships both current and prior, You are right that the need to control or power dynamics have been separate from the need for 'scenes' or 'play sessions'. And how often I need to feed that urge compared to how often My submissive needs to feed that urge is important to the ultimate success or failure of the dynamic.

Right now I need to interact every other day at least in some way. Usually this does not have to be a huge thing...just enough to ease the cravings. I have found that if I do not feed the urges like this then after a week or two I become extremely irritable and impossible to live with. For My submissive, if he is not being played with his own urges often remain pretty dormant. If I am using his body in any way then his urges increase at the same rate.

Roughly every two weeks I need to fully feed that appetite and take things to a strong release. I watch the body language of My submissive and can tell when his hunger is getting to the point where it must be fed and I make sure that happens often enough for him to maintain his balance.

I am not going to directly address the question of what constitutes a fully release or a successful session because that changes for Me depending on My level of tension. If I am happy and relaxed then the play is a lot more playful and I play much more often and lightly. During those times a successful session would be when I achieve the desired responses from the submissive.

When My life is full of tension then the NEED to feed that appetite is greater and the method of feeding it is different. That is when the intense most pain filled sessions occur. A successful session here would be when I have achieved a release of My tensions.

What I do to achieve either outcome depends on circumstances, time, the condition of the submissive and his needs.

Gentle Lady

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/9/2005 9:36:08 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline 		I think one reason people are hesitant to voice their "real" expectations, is because they are often stigmatized because of it.

The "unspoken, who is in charge" dynamic, as Akasha put it, is often overlooked or trivilaized by the world at large, and individuals who only play ,or are overtly kinky...say...once or twice a month, are made to feel that that dynamic of command is less for them--that they are less a part of the bdsm community.



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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 5:12:59 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

One of the reasons I think some people (especially male submissives) have trouble finding an appropriate femdom partner (for a long term relationship) is that they do not understand their own submissive "appetite" -- either from lack of experience, or having "eyes bigger than stomach" so to speak.

What is your kinky appetite, and how willing are you to compromise for the right person (ie, this person had all the other things you wanted in a long term relationship)? Instead of getting into confusing words like TPE or 24/7 or "lifestyle" -- what if you instead defined it as "Appetite"?

How often do you need it? That's a simple question.

My experience is that... generally... the newer someone is to the lifestyle the more apt they are to not understand the difference between wants and needs. Doesn't matter if they are male or female, dominant or submissive, it seems to be a general lack of experience. From what I have observed over the years in others as well as myself, the more experience you gain in this lifestyle the better you understand the dynamics that really work and the better you understand yourself. When many people are new they are a bit like wide-eyed kids in a candy store (or else very scared and timid), and they tend to want to try everything, they quickly develop "do-me" lists which they proudly present to their prospective dominant or submissive partners. And when someone more experienced asks them about what kind of relationship they want, is friendship or affection or love important to them you get either surprised / confused looks or blank stares. My personal opinion is that most fetishes fall into the "optional" category, they certainly do for me. I enjoy play, I can get edgy and extreme in some cases, but the vast majority of it is optional. If I encounter a submissive who just can't do fetish A, I move on to B, C, D, E, etc. and rarely is that a problem. For example, I love doing bondage, especially rope bondage (I was very kinky boy scout ), but at one point I met a submissive who would have panic attacks if tied up, she just couldn't handle it. She was a wonderful person with a lot to offer, so no problem, we moved on to other things and enjoyed them. I also learned through my experience with her that it can be a very powerful thing to order a submissive to remain in a certain position rather than tying them up, then proceed with other things (like flogging) and punish them if they move... to see her straining to keep still and obey is a remarkable experience and I found it very rewarding. I might never have discovered that if I was hung up on "do-me" lists and unwilling to be flexible.

When I browse profiles or meet someone in real life I'm always interested to know what kind of relationship they seek... for example, long term vs play partner, is friendship important, affection or love, etc. Then I move on to things like how much control they are willing to surrender, what kind of relationship do they envision having with their dominant... a slave, just an object, a companion, just submissive in the bedroom, etc.? Fetishes are the last thing on my list to discuss. That says a lot about where my priorities are and I listen to how a submissive answers my questions to gauge where their priorities are.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 5:20:57 AM   
nella


Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		i think it is also inportant to let pepole know that those that do want to play often do not do somthing wrong. Often at this forum i get the impression of submissive needing play often, that have preferances bad, submissive that can be played whit every once in a while and generaly have no list of wants and needs good. Is it not more the matter of fitting the right sub to the right Dom?

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 5:41:02 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		I agree its about fitting the right submissive with the right dominant. But I get a very different impression about things than you do. Having preferences is fine, but people need to know the difference between wants and needs. Using myself for example, I need a solid, long term relationship; I have a strong preference for rope bondage, but I can live without it if my needs are met and there are other preferences that compensate for that. I think what Aakasha was objecting too, and I know I was, are submissives that present a long list of fetishes, not as preferences, but as needs... they just have to have this and have to have that... and its all fetishes. I can understand someone saying they need a few fetishes, I've know several submissives that needed to be allowed to kneel by me because it helped them feel submissive. But when someone, especially someone new, presents me with a list fo 30+ fetishes that they just absolutely must have... I pass on them. Especially when you asks them, "How much experience do you have being a pony girl, how were you trained?" and they reply, "Oh I haven't tried it yet but I just love the idea and... blah blah blah." Waiter, reality check please! There's a name for them, "Do-me queens". As for how often to play... speaking for myself, I like a little something everyday if possible and I'm sure many others do as well, nothing wrong with that or with wanting less.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 11:41:55 AM   
luvdragonx


Posts: 388
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Do-Me Queens!!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!!! I love that term!

I've found that my wants shift also. I've recently come to discover that while my pain tolerance is still high, my desire for pain during play has diminished significantly. And I believe it's due to experience and who I'm partnered with. It's like trying a new food and loving it. For a while, you can't get enough, but then either you burn out on it for life, or your desire for it wanes. Then you have to be in the 'mood' for it. A few might love it just as much in 30 years as they did the first day. BDSM is no different, imo. WhenI first jumped in, the endorphin rush was a high I wanted to experience again and again. That rush, however, can be draining, and I saw myself headed for burnout. Now I'm re-evaluating my needs vs wants to find a new balance.

I agree, the long list of fetishes can be daunting for both Dominants and submissives - the Dom/mes don't want Do-Me Queens (love that!!) and subs may feel obligated or compelled to over-inflate their ability/desire to accommodate this list. Expectations on frequency of play are a good thing to establish, so long as those expectations are revisited regurlarly.

< Message edited by luvdragonx -- 8/13/2005 2:08:45 PM >

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 12:27:00 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luvdragonx

snipped

I agree, the long list of fetishes can be daunting for both Dominants and submissives - the Dom/mes don't want Do-Me Queens (love that!!) and subs may feel obligated or compelled to over-inflate their ability/desire to accommodate this list. Expectations on frequency of play are a good thing to establish, so long as those expectations are revisited regurlarly.


An even worse situation appears when a dom feels obligated to "service" a submissive's needs when those needs are above his or her skill levels. I recall one submissive who really really wanted me to brand her. I found a way out of that one, but many many of the "train wrecks" I see in the scene are from that sort of situation. Let's not forget the universe's first not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity plea.... "Lord, the woman tempted me."






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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 4:35:23 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

An even worse situation appears when a dom feels obligated to "service" a submissive's needs when those needs are above his or her skill levels. I recall one submissive who really really wanted me to brand her. I found a way out of that one, but many many of the "train wrecks" I see in the scene are from that sort of situation. Let's not forget the universe's first not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity plea.... "Lord, the woman tempted me."



Umm, what ever happend to the Dom (you know, the person in charge who makes the decisions) actually saying "No, that's outside the scope of my expertise"? Why would a Dom feel the need to "find a way out of" that kind of situation when all s/he has to do is say No? Surely there aren't Doms out there who would rather cut off their right arm than admit that they are not experts in something?

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 5:05:36 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

Umm, what ever happend to the Dom (you know, the person in charge who makes the decisions) actually saying "No, that's outside the scope of my expertise"? Why would a Dom feel the need to "find a way out of" that kind of situation when all s/he has to do is say No? Surely there aren't Doms out there who would rather cut off their right arm than admit that they are not experts in something?


[laugh] You know, if you keep sticking your tongue so far up that cheek, it may stick that way,




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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 5:25:40 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: luvdragonx

snipped

I agree, the long list of fetishes can be daunting for both Dominants and submissives - the Dom/mes don't want Do-Me Queens (love that!!) and subs may feel obligated or compelled to over-inflate their ability/desire to accommodate this list. Expectations on frequency of play are a good thing to establish, so long as those expectations are revisited regurlarly.


An even worse situation appears when a dom feels obligated to "service" a submissive's needs when those needs are above his or her skill levels. I recall one submissive who really really wanted me to brand her. I found a way out of that one, but many many of the "train wrecks" I see in the scene are from that sort of situation. Let's not forget the universe's first not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity plea.... "Lord, the woman tempted me."







Dominating out of obligation isn't domination at all. The submissive might as well give a list of their wants/needs -- why not go see a pro? Now, a dominant doing something out of obligation even though they are not experienced is downright unsafe (why not be up front with the sub and say you don't want to/don't know how/don't care to learn).

Akasha

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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 6:24:06 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		From the switch side of things:

When I first entered my relationship with my dom (now 20 months in), we were playing all the time. I like to think of it as our honeymoon phase. Now, we have settled into each other, and both of us know that we can't be on the ball every day. We have work, stress, exhaustion, real life! We have a 24/7 relationship and people always ask me "does that mean you play all the time?" No, of course not. But we always know who we are...I am always his submissive, he is always my dominant. It frightens me a bit that people think are libidos would overpower the rest of our lives.

As a dominant, I find it a bit frightening that men (and it's always men in my personal experience) can not understand that I won't be decked in leather all the time, wearing 6 inch heels, a cruel stare burned across my face. In a long term relationship, I'll always be his dominant, and he, always my submissive, but I can't provide a constant barrage (sp?) of spankings, floggings, and forced feminization.


(in reply to AAkasha)
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RE: Do you know your kinky "appetite" - Can y... - 8/10/2005 6:40:16 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

An even worse situation appears when a dom feels obligated to "service" a submissive's needs when those needs are above his or her skill levels. I recall one submissive who really really wanted me to brand her. I found a way out of that one, but many many of the "train wrecks" I see in the scene are from that sort of situation. Let's not forget the universe's first not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity plea.... "Lord, the woman tempted me."






John when did you start popping up here? We miss you up north!

Oh and of course Ditto to your post.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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