RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes?

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ownedgirlie -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/21/2007 12:30:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Nodding.......which is why Knowing an owners limits are important to someone desiring to be property-and just how much they value what they have. Indeed. I didn't know all of them though. Neither did he. This was something that had never come up before. I would have done the scenario that came up. No question. And I would have survived it. But I admit I am grateful he spared me. It goes to show, though, that just because a slave does not limit herself from doing the most extreme things with her, doesn't mean he will do it. It means a responsible Owner will take into account the well being of his/her property, in order to maintain her/his/its value to him/her.

RRafe -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/21/2007 2:00:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Nodding.......which is why Knowing an owners limits are important to someone desiring to be property-and just how much they value what they have. Indeed. I didn't know all of them though. Neither did he. This was something that had never come up before. I would have done the scenario that came up. No question. And I would have survived it. But I admit I am grateful he spared me. It goes to show, though, that just because a slave does not limit herself from doing the most extreme things with her, doesn't mean he will do it. It means a responsible Owner will take into account the well being of his/her property, in order to maintain her/his/its value to him/her. I state a lot of my likes upfront-to chase off women who would otherwise waste OUR time. But you cannot know everything about someone, until you spend oodles of time with them-in person. Even then, it's sketchy. But I do have a sense of conscience and accountability. It stops me from doing dumb stuff most of the time-because I hate the feeling of guilt that comes from screwing up. Humility and realizing that you are not god is not a weakness. It's a practical thing one does out of a sense of self preservation-it's not noble-it just works.

slaveluci -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/21/2007 5:21:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe It's often because subs tend to limit a lot of things they don't really understand-in different contexts than they imagine when setting them as such. I really agree with this. When Master and I began our relationship, I told Him of two hard limits. Two things I will not ever do period. (You can't figure them out, so don't even guess. It's not two of the usual 3 everyone assumes are universal[;)]). Anyway, He agreed with them as He had no interest in either of them anyway so that worked out conveniently. However, if He did have some interest in either of them, that would not have changed the fact that I am never going to do either of them. I love Him with all my heart and do my best every single day to please Him. This never involves doing something to damage me either physically or emotionally/mentally. These 2 things would do just that. Neither of us are interested, neither of them are ever going to happen. If I had come into the relationship with a list of 20 things I've never done but said I never would do, that would have been very different. I made sure He knew that I will always do all I can to please Him and have any boundaries pushed, as is so often said. I just wanted Him to know that those 2 things were never going to be something I could deal with. I was very honest, He was very accepting and as for every other activity - it's fair game and we're experimenting! I saw no need to mislead or deceive Him into thinking that my feelings about those 2 things would ever change because they won't................luci

RRafe -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/21/2007 5:30:13 PM)
Right lucy, but I'm sure you had very good reasons for those two limits-and felt no need to make more up out of your imagination of how horrible certain things were going to be. Which is the difference between operating out of practicality-and being a squicky little princess.[:D]

slaveluci -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/21/2007 5:48:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RRafe Right lucy, but I'm sure you had very good reasons for those two limits-and felt no need to make more up out of your imagination of how horrible certain things were going to be. Which is the difference between operating out of practicality-and being a squicky little princess.[:D] Exactly[:D]..........luci

SirEbonyPhoenix -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/21/2007 8:07:45 PM)
For me, a hard limit would be anything that is unsafe or unsanitary and as such, I will not oblige any sub or slave in that regard. Examples of my own personal hard limits would include scat play, waterpsorts, blood play or fire play. But I also have other hard limits that don't relate to the lifestyle per se, yet are ones which violate the aspect of safe, sane and consensual, which among them would include any sub or slave who abuses alcohol, uses drugs (illegal ones and prescriptions if abused), or smokes. It is imperative that one have a clear conscience and focused mind in this lifestyle and if they are doing any of these hard limits, I personally will not play with them at all. True, it may seem harsh, but that's how it is with me as a Dominant.

chellekitty -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/21/2007 9:06:31 PM)
i have two catagories of hard limits...one that i am physically incapable of doing and one that i am psychologically incapable of doing... they may or may not over lap... if they are purely physical, i will attempt to do them if i am asked, but i will tell my Dominant before hand, because i don't submit to people that break their toys...and then they, thus far, have always retracted the request/order....because they don't break their toys...if it is no longer a physical limit...then it is no longer a hard limit... if they are psychological...again it is a case of not breaking me...i can do them...but i will be broken afterwards...i will need a lot of psychological care, and i probably won't trust you ever again if you decide to do it all on your own....now, with time and trust built up, i want to get rid of these...but not with just anyone...time and trust... and if there are some that breach both areas...both can be worked on at the same time, but the physical has to be healed before it can not be a hard limit... limits are not things that are impossible for me to do...they are things that if i did, i would be broken afterwards...so i have to put a limit on myself, so that i can be healthy and whole and safe....protect the property at all times, even from the owner, if necessary... i don't like having limits...but i am not perfect...i am human... chelle

Lancealittle -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/21/2007 9:15:08 PM)
I started off with more hard limits than I have now.. I suspect I'll end up with a submissive who might not want to go as far I do with certain things. For me, communication dictates a hard limit, before I push a boundrie I'm going to let them know I'll be doing it and ask them to tell me their honest feelings on it. Depending on the answer will depend on whether or not I push that particular limit. It's really important to me though that my submissives boundries are well established early on, but that has a lot to do with the fact that I'm not looking for a slave, I'm looking for a submissive. I don't want property, I want some one who gives themselves to me to be taken care of, trained, and controlled. That's gift in my eyes and my gift back to them is to take care of them and train them. If there's something I really want to do that they're not into, chances are if I'm at that point with that particular submissive they're the type that will do it just because I want to, it becomes my responsibility to determine if it iwll have a lasting negative effect and it's purely situational.

tulitukka -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 1:59:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Honsoku A 'hard' limit is just that. It means not now, not ever, you try this and I'm gone (game over man, game over!). Pushing boundaries should not be the attempted breaking of hard limits. The issue is that many people list things as hard limits that are really just current or soft limits. The difference being that soft limits can be pushed with care. On CM the overstating of hard limits is particularly prevalent as a lot of people list things as hard limits which are blatant nonsense, so I take them with a grain of salt. If a limit is something of interest, the reason(s) behind the limit will be examined to ascertain whether or not it is a 'hard' or 'soft' limit. Pushing boundaries, on the other hand, should be taking a non-limit further than it has been taken before with that person. If no more than 10 clothespins have been tolerated by you before, the 11th would be pushing a boundary. Pushing boundaries can also be the breaking down of soft limits, as they are boundaries in their own right. There's a confusion in terminology, which helps mud the issue. The way I've seen soft limits and hard limits described is: soft limit is when you go past the point when it's no longer something the submissive enjoys. For example, pain can go to a point where the submissive is, in fact, in pain and is getting no goodies out of it. But it is still something the submissive may tolerate without being wounded. A hard limit would be something that would actually cause (medium or long term) damage, mental or physical to the submissive. The first one should be stepped over only with care. The second one shouldn't, though the boundary where mental damage happens can be pushed, and thus the boundary of hard limits. From this perspective the hard limit of "no rape play" is as hard as "no killing", if the submissive is a rape victim and if it were done right now, then the person would have a high probability of getting into a very bad mental state, out which it is difficult to climb back without the help of doctors. If on the other hand, the submissive had learned to trust the dominant and had done a lot of healing on the rape issue, he or she might want to see, if the boundary was a little bit further than they imagine. I see no difference between maiming one physically and maiming one mentally from this perspective (except that it is a whole lot more difficult to get ourselves to grow new feet for the damaged ones than it is to get our heads in a state that can handle certain kinds of play). The limit right there, and right then is hard, because associated risk of severe mental or physical damage is way too high.

windchymes -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 5:01:51 AM)
What I have a problem with is when a Dominant hears the word "limit" and suddenly, even if it's something he never even thought of before, he becomes consumed with pushing or breaking that limit. Rather than focus on the plethora of things a sub WILL do, oh no, it's all about pushing THAT limit.

IrishMist -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 6:00:33 AM)
I don't have hard limits. I have boundaries that are pretty much the same as any other rational human being. No one steps over MY boundaries. Period. To do so is immediate end of relationship and most probably would end with an arrest. Outside of the obvious that was stated above; there is very little that I will not do, have not done, and am not willing to try. [:)]

Vanatru -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 6:45:18 AM)
I have a hard time taking sub/slave hard limits seriously when I see stuff like: country music, tickling, and the like. I can see such things as dislikes or even hates, but would a sub actually go to the cops because she was tickled? Since hard limits can change, they are not hard at all. What'd make a LOT more sense for the prospective sub/slave is to choose VERY CAREFULLY the master/dom they get involved with and see what kind of hard limits HE has.

IrishMist -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 7:47:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vanatru I have a hard time taking sub/slave hard limits seriously when I see stuff like: country music, tickling, and the like. I can see such things as dislikes or even hates, but would a sub actually go to the cops because she was tickled? Since hard limits can change, they are not hard at all. What'd make a LOT more sense for the prospective sub/slave is to choose VERY CAREFULLY the master/dom they get involved with and see what kind of hard limits HE has. No, what would make sense is if people would stop for a minute and understand that some things should never have to be discussed; therefore they should never make it on that so called list. As for getting to know someone first; well umm, DUH. LOL As for you comments about tickling and such...anyone who has to put that down as a boundary that will not be crossed...has no sense of what a real limit or boundary is. I don't like to be tickled; I will smack the person who tickles me. That does not mean that its going to ruin the relationship; it only means that they had better understand that I mean what I say. If they can handle the punch; then tickle away.

Willowmoon -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 7:58:26 AM)
Sorry I have to disagree for me tickling IS a hard limit and I do have a sense of what a 'real' limit is. For me tickling is a hard limit as it is a trigger for flashbacks to childhood abuse. I don't have many things in the hard limit box but that is firmly there and if anyone tried to push with me I would be ending the relationship. Willow

IrishMist -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 8:05:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Willowmoon Sorry I have to disagree for me tickling IS a hard limit and I do have a sense of what a 'real' limit is. For me tickling is a hard limit as it is a trigger for flashbacks to childhood abuse. I don't have many things in the hard limit box but that is firmly there and if anyone tried to push with me I would be ending the relationship. Willow /shakes head in disbelief I can not believe that so many misunderstand the issue about hard limits or boundaries and what they actually are. Willow, you have a good grasp on it but you are still looking at it from the wrong direction. A boundary or limit is something that would cause irreparable physical, psychological, or mental damage. Anyone who crosses that line with someone, deserves to be in jail. Everything else is just preferences; I don't like this, I won't do it; I like this, let's do it; I am unsure about this, let's discuss it. Pretty simple when you think about it.

Lordandmaster -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 8:13:41 AM)
If she'll call the cops and press charges, it's a hard limit. quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub My question is what view do Doms and Masters take of a submissive's 'hard' limits?

SirJohnMandevill -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 9:13:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Willowmoon Sorry I have to disagree for me tickling IS a hard limit and I do have a sense of what a 'real' limit is. For me tickling is a hard limit as it is a trigger for flashbacks to childhood abuse. I don't have many things in the hard limit box but that is firmly there and if anyone tried to push with me I would be ending the relationship. Willow I guess I'm too softhearted. If a sub has something as a "hard limit," I just figure, forget it, we've got enough else in common (assuming we do), and we'll do the other activities for which she doesn't have hard limits. As to "pushing boundaries," I use it in the same sense we aviation types use "pushing the envelope" -- giving a sub as much of something as she can physically or mentally stand (e.g, flogging) before she uses our safewords/safe signals. My .02 zlotys. Your milage obviously will vary.... Les (Illegitimate son of Bob Hope and Aunt Esther)

SimplyMichael -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 9:54:41 AM)
Limits, as they are most commonly used, are a fetish from the online bdsm world. They are meaningless in some ways although they have their uses. Take choking as a hard limit. Perhaps it is a limit because they have been in abusive relationships and were chocked and they freak out. A typical clueless dom chokes them in play, they freak out and so it should be a limit when playing with a clueless or unskilled dominant. A skilled dominant could choke her and make her love it. It would take time, perhaps even years, but it is done all the time. You first make them feel safe and grounded in the relationship. You then prove to them and get them to KNOW that if something bothers them that you are supportive if they bring it up. Then one day in the midst of some passionate fear play or perhaps some hot lovemaking you just mention how hot breath play (NOT choking) makes you. Most submissives LOVE turning their dom on. SLOWLY you go from talking to perhaps making her hold her breath. (I TOLD you this was a slow process!) Then one day you lightly put your fingers over her nose and if she loves control, she gets wet. SLOWLY you advance to where choking her becomes okay and perhaps even hot for her. On a serious issue it might take years but hey, if you have a lifetime together, what's the rush. Now, playing with someone unskilled, LOTS of stuff should be off limits. Hell, when I was unskilled, I can remember some rather basic humiliation play that caused some serious emotional issues that took months to work through. I couldn't get that whole "your a slut" thing was bad but "you are MY slut" was good. I couldn't hear the difference but SHE could. It is easy to degrade them but it takes skill to bring them back to being in a healthy grounded space. And trust me, give me ten minutes with a woman who's "only" limits were the three stupid ones they all list and boy will she find out she has about 100 new limits! That said, they are useful tool for unskilled players both top and bottom but the concept is, like SCC, only so useful for so long.

windchymes -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 9:59:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster If she'll call the cops and press charges, it's a hard limit. quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub My question is what view do Doms and Masters take of a submissive's 'hard' limits? How about a sharp kick to the balls? [;)]

velvetears -> RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? (11/22/2007 10:57:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Guess I've never really understood the whole "push your limits" thing. A limit is exactly that to me...a limit. It means end of the line, do not go past this point, not for any reason. My limits are things that I won't do today, tomorrow, or EVER under ANY circumstances. Then again, I don't attach the word limit frivolously either and I don't use it for things that I simply may be hesitant about trying or that I just don't like. i agree 100% - hard limits is a no brainer - if a dom can't understand that concept - later

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