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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/22/2007 8:19:28 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Nope, some guys are into that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

If she'll call the cops and press charges, it's a hard limit.


How about a sharp kick to the balls?   

(in reply to windchymes)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/22/2007 9:35:03 PM   
fsub4use


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well, sometimes our hard limits disappoint us...
i have a hard limit of tickling....  i have asthma and that kind of out of control breath play throws me into deep fear and the difficulty of breathing plus the fear throw me into an asthma attack.  so, i hate that i list it as a hard limit - i love love love to laugh - but it is a medical issue for me... i have never been able to get past it, much as i have tried.  so i have surrendered to this reality for me.

but feel free to tell me a good joke and get me to laugh.... *winks

< Message edited by fsub4use -- 11/22/2007 9:37:44 PM >

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/22/2007 10:19:02 PM   
tulitukka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

What I have a problem with is when a Dominant hears the word "limit" and suddenly, even if it's something he never even thought of before, he becomes consumed with pushing or breaking that limit. Rather than focus on the plethora of things a sub WILL do, oh no, it's all about pushing THAT limit.


A sad dichotomy that is. For me, pushing my submissives psychological (and perhaps physical) boundaries is, definitely, part of my kink. I happen to get major kicks out of getting my submissive to squirm and to want something they thought they would never like. Perhaps it's the trainer/teacher in me that makes me that way. I won't of course be consumed and totally focus on new things, but I admit that I do have focus on such things.

I've been wondering whether I should accecpt submissives for training and how to go about starting such a thing. But then again, I think I'll give myself time to learn the ropes myself before going that road.

(in reply to windchymes)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/23/2007 9:23:41 AM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

One never knows what one might be motivated to do, in the right context.
  There is no possible motivation that would make me reconsider my hard limits. My hard limits are things that I consider morally wrong or psychologically damaging to me. Everything else is a soft limit and is always bendable.

If a Dominant told me he was going push my hard limits, he'd find himself pushing up against the curb he was kicked to.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 11/23/2007 9:25:02 AM >


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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/23/2007 9:29:01 AM   
tanzur


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quote:

What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes?

Death does. It's a bit hard to recover from that.

(in reply to pinksugarsub)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/23/2007 12:33:14 PM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

i came into my relationship with 4 hard limits. (other than the obvious ones of course)...i thought that these things were set in stone as hard and so thought i wouldn't ever have to do them. my Daddy made it clear that he thought that i was just being over cautious and that the things i had on my list were things he had done with others with no problems. i still thought i wouldn't have to do them, ever.

Then after a few months of being collared i was told that the limits that i had were being ALLOWED by him until he decided that he wanted to go past them, and until he thought i could handle going past them.

By a little more than a year after being collared,  3 had been past by and two of them are now pretty common place.

Now, of course there are a bunch of things that i've never tried, and things that make me nervous and the like. These things aren't hard limits because i don't have enough understanding of them to say one way or the other and only time will tell...if they are even ever brought up at all. All i can do for those things is try them and see.

There is another limit that is allowed, and just as a matter of safety due to breast implants that are large and over the muscle, and that is no breast bondage. It's a good thing that my Daddy isn't into that anyway, but i know that as long as i have these implants, then that would not be something that is forced on me even if he was into it.



This fits my experience almost to a T. I have somethings I won't do, generally because they involve health, safety, welfare and legality. These involve things like blood play, severe breath play, scat, UM's, things of that nature. I used to have other things that I would have labeled under the category hard limits and most of the people I have interacted with over the years go into a relationship with some dealbreakers as well.

What I have found is that some of those things can work in some relationships and not in others. Conversly there are things I really like in some contexts that give me zero pleasure in another relationship. Degredation, humiliation and objectification are good examples of this. I know people who I have loved doing these things too, it was sexy, erotic, and incredible, sometimes even for both of us*chuckles.* Then there have been others I have known that I could never have enjoyed doing these things to, even if they liked it.

What I do is walk into a relationship with an open mind and begin it with some hard limits. But over the course of time, generally every two or three months I will sit down with her and we will re-examine things because sometimes these things change. Its always something I can push if I choose, to, thats my option, I am the owner after all. But unless I have a reason too, which can be as simple as I want to or that I am an evil provacatuer intent on eliciting a response, I tend to stay within parameters until I think the conditions are right for the pushing of some serious limits.

The last girl I played with was terrified of knives at the outset,by the end she adored the feeling of razor blades across the surface of her skin, the inclusion of large knives in edge play and the occasional katana involved in a scene as well. Its always worth keeping an open mind about most things. Generally can't just means won't.

(in reply to daddyncherry)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/23/2007 1:52:21 PM   
CalifChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

As for you comments about tickling and such...anyone who has to put that down as a boundary that will not be crossed...has no sense of what a real limit or boundary is.

I don't like to be tickled; I will smack the person who tickles me. That does not mean that its going to ruin the relationship; it only means that they had better understand that I mean what I say. If they can handle the punch; then tickle away.


Several people said the same thing... I just picked one to quote at random.  I am a bit taken aback that some people dismiss something so easily just because it is not a hard limit for THEM and they don't seem able to appreciate that it might be a hard limit for someone else.  Why does it have to be the "big stuff" like scat or blood or fire, in order to be serious?

I wavered being "hates" and "hard limit" on tickling.  You want to take me to a very bad psychological place? Tickle me with your fingers.  Will do it EVERY SINGLE TIME, without fail, you can put hard money on it.  I'm not talking about a touch that is ticklish, I'm talking about deliberately tickling with the fingers.

My ex found himself on the receiving end of a baseball bat (too bad he ducked) because he tried that after I had left him.  Figured he didn't have to keep me happy anymore, didn't have to respect what I had said was NEVER to be done to me, so he was just going to be a jerk.  If he had done that during our marriage, he would have gotten only one chance, and then yes, if it happened a second time, it WOULD have ruined the relationship.

Cali

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/23/2007 5:36:20 PM   
pinksugarsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

What I have a problem with is when a Dominant hears the word "limit" and suddenly, even if it's something he never even thought of before, he becomes consumed with pushing or breaking that limit.  Rather than focus on the plethora of things a sub WILL do, oh no, it's all about pushing THAT limit.


Man, this has happened to me but i couldn't articulate it -- to me it signals a gamer, not a real Dom.  Always wanting the submissive to feel distress.....that's not my idea of a sound relationship.
 
pinksugarsub

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/23/2007 6:25:17 PM   
Squeakers


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   My hard limits are mostly moral.   My moral limits can not be pushed.   There are things I might not want to do, I'd do it, as long as he had my best interest in mind. I'm not going to pair up with someone who'd want to cut off my little finger.    

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 11/23/2007 10:46:58 PM   
Estring


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I told my slave what we would and wouldn't do. Hard limits are things that I will not do.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/4/2007 1:01:03 PM   
kinkypuppy2


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Hard limits should ALWAYS be respected. only after trust is there and both are comfortable can they be talked about and pushed a little.

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/4/2007 1:14:10 PM   
VegasDom76


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For me a hard limit is something I would NEVER do. Its something i see as beyond my personal capacity of acceptance.
imho you should never set something as a hard limit that you MAY or MIGHT becurious about down the road.

(in reply to kinkypuppy2)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/5/2007 5:34:35 PM   
CelticPrince


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pink,

Ahard limit is just that, they do not go there, but there are soft limits.

CP

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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/5/2007 7:01:48 PM   
NightWindWhisper


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Neat subject--and neat points of view.

A hard limit to me is a "no."  No means "no."  So it's off limits.

But oftentimes hard limits are defined by many factors.  Pedophelia is the classic one--trangress it, go to jail, it is by definition non-consensual, and cannot be made consensual by any means.  "Scat" is either based upon fear of potential health issues and the "yuck factor."  Yet "fisting" is often a hard limit, as well as anal intercourse.  These "hard limits" sometimes originate from bad prior experiences, or from lack of knowledge.  For me "it's a hard limit," means that--and I respect that.  Yet I might, over time, after trust develops point out that my partner's views on fisting is based upon either bad experience or fear that is not based upon fact.  Still--she has the right to define that as a hard limit simply due to a "I don't want to talk about it," point of view.  Ok, though I will point out that, in my opinion she is missing the singular most intimate and loving, and connective act that two humans can engage in, with no pain, no stretching, and no negativity.  And I have found out that over time this hard limit has become a favorite activity. Though I do not pounce on a person's limits so see if I can transgress them.

As others have mentioned, there are emotional, spiritual or experiential based limits--and these need to be dealt with very carefully.  A dominant can unwrap the layers of armor around early sexual abuse in a way that leaves the submissive exposed and raw--this limit is one that should be imposed by the dominant, even if the submissive is unaware of it. 

Then as the submissive finds that what was once perceived as "pain" is no longer pain, but is a stimulus leading to subspace, and the submissive experiences it as delightful--it may in fact, over time change from a hard limit, to one that is a soft limit--which can be pushed, with respect for the outcome.  To me the submissive controls the depth and breadth of experience, since it is her pleasure that fires my pleasure. 

I do find it notabable that I have heard more complaints by submissives that "he will not give me what I need," than I do from dominants who say: "She's too timid."

What we do is about fun--about what excites us--what thrills us, keep that in mind, and be respectful, and the path unfolds....

(in reply to CelticPrince)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/5/2007 7:44:55 PM   
Grlwithboy


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Hard limits are also things that the person can't do. I'm not going to do certain things with a person who's had a hip replacement. I'm not going to insist on a laundry list of items only by rote memory from my husband, who is ADD and prohibit him use of timers and lists and punish him when he messes up. I'm not going to make someone whose throat closes up if she eats nuts have a bite of my snickers - stupid limit, right, it's just a snickers.


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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/6/2007 9:00:11 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Willowmoon

Sorry I have to disagree for me tickling IS a hard limit and I do have a sense of what a 'real' limit is. For me tickling is a hard limit as it is a trigger for flashbacks to childhood abuse.

I don't have many things in the hard limit box but that is firmly there and if anyone tried to push with me I would be ending the relationship.

Willow

/shakes head in disbelief

I can not believe that so many misunderstand the issue about hard limits or boundaries and what they actually are.

Willow, you have a good grasp on it but you are still looking at it from the wrong direction. A boundary or limit is something that would cause irreparable physical, psychological, or mental damage.
Anyone who crosses that line with someone, deserves to be in jail.

Everything else is just preferences; I don't like this, I won't do it; I like this, let's do it; I am unsure about this, let's discuss it.

Pretty simple when you think about it.


If you don't think that deliberately causing a recurrance of a mental illness is harmful, then I'm the one shaking my head. You said that tickling couldn't possibly be harmful and willow responded telling you one case in which it is.

Because it isn't harmful to you doesn't mean it isn't harmful to someone else. In Rrafe's view I am a "squicky little princess". The difference is that I am a squicky little princess with generalized anxiety disorder and those things he views as squicky cause me panic attacks. Since deliberately bringing on active occurances of mental illness is harmful to me, we don't do things like that. Which is why I limit duct tape gags, he joked about it one day and nearly set off an attack from just making an obvious joke.

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(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/6/2007 9:07:15 AM   
HalloweenWhite


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As far as I'm concerned, if a submissive said to Me "so and so is a hard limit" then I wouldn't go near it, let alone try to push it.

(in reply to pinksugarsub)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/6/2007 11:51:26 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes?


If it's mine. Either my 'limits' become yours or we don't get together.

(in reply to pinksugarsub)
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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/6/2007 4:28:24 PM   
Grlwithboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes?


If it's mine. Either my 'limits' become yours or we don't get together.


That is one of those many things that works perfectly well when the person setting the agenda is not an idiot. :) If only that were the norm.


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RE: What Makes a Limit 'Hard' in Your Eyes? - 12/6/2007 4:42:57 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

That is one of those many things that works perfectly well when the person setting the agenda is not an idiot. :) If only that were the norm.


I couldn't agree more! Its why I advocate knowing the person you play with is much more important than knowing your, or their, 'limits'. It's not the path to a 'quickie'; but, in my opinion, it represents a safer path.

Besides, if you aren't sure the person setting the agenda is, or isn't, an "idiot" how much confidence can you have on your limits being respected? In fact one of my 'limits' is not to play with idiots. If they chose to be with me without knowing me and mine - that would qualify them for the idiot label and disqualify them from being with me. QED! 

(in reply to Grlwithboy)
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