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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 10:01:05 AM

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FR to the OP:
There's a recent thread on this subject, just fyi.

While I agree it might be a good idea to learn how certain things feel technically (ie: flogger, restraints, cane, etc). You cannot learn what it feels like to be submissive if you are not just from switching roles. A sadist will never know how a masochist feels from submitting to pain and vice versa. Having been in both roles, I have to say while I believe I have a bit of insight into what a submissive may feel like at times, even after a decade of subbing it's relatively useless as we all think/feel/experience things differently and have different desires. For someone that is not submissive the value would be even less, putting yourself in the position and actually having the mental desire to submit/serve are two totally seperate things.

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 3:01:49 PM

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I think I've said this before on other threads. Bottoming, I can and have done. Submission, however, is an entirely different thing to Me. There seems to be a lot of crossing of the terms in the responses, so I wanted to say that I'm looking at the question from a perspective that a bottom and a submissive are two entrirely different catagories.

As for bottoming itself, yes I've done it. I wanted to experience it for Myself so that I could learn things. I've also volunteered for the position so My husband could learn some things. I offerred to do it once to see if it could attract additional members to a certain event. (I didn't have to pay up on that one, though. I set the goal pretty high.) I'm certainly no masochist, but I can hit bottom space under the right circumstances. I look at it as I do as other experiences in My life. I learn things through what I experience. I may not be wired the same way, but I do learn from it.

Submission for Me is serving another to please another. That's not My cup of tea.

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 4:07:20 PM

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I have bottomed and been in service to serve my friends (in different ways) as well as to explore myself (I learned I'm a servant, not a slave...big difference for me). I learned valuable stuff each time I did it. I didn't go into any situation with the expressed desire to 'do it to be a better Master'; I did it to be helpful and to be a better PERSON.

Master Fire

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 4:41:37 PM

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As a sado/masochist I've been involved on both sides of a lot of rather rough play, but I had never actually bottomed for anyone. When my current darling partner started exploring her dominant side I started bottoming for her so she could learn certain things with someone she was comfortable with. We were involved in something one day and I can't remember what was said but I do remember her response. She laughed and told me I was a lousy bottom as I was pretty much still acting like the dominant and doing what I wished. At that point I had to really think things over. I certaily wasn't helping her and since I wanted her to find herself and really let that side of her out I did the only thing I could. I took a deep breath, knelt, bowed my head and said I'm yours.

Did it help me become a better dominant, nope not one bit. Did it help me have some great understanding of submissives, nada. What it did do was help the woman I love find herself and grow into that part of herself that she always kept locked away. That has brought some absolutely amazing times with both of us topping someone together.

Would I do it again for her, absolutely any time she watned to learn something. Would I do it for anyone else, never is such a big word lets just say it is highly highly unlikely.

K

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 4:47:20 PM

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quote:

When someone else claims that bottoming gives them a better understanding of what they are doing, your claim that they are wrong portrays you as saying that your way is the only 'twue' way.

I don't claim that my answers are the only ones out there, or that my line of beliefs is the only one that works. However in this topic, this situation, my mind just screams No, in reply.

I'm just amazed that others aren't feeling the same.

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Knowing others is intelligence.
Knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 5:35:36 PM

SirJohnMandevill

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shootingstar67
So Masters I am asking you. Would you ever consider bottoming? Not because you'd enjoy it but because it would make you a better dom?

I can't fly without an airplane, run the 100 in 9.1 or sing like Barbra Streisand.
Why should I try bottoming?

Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handmade Kinkiness)

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I am a fully eroticized being
No more neuroses
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With the deviant ingredient
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(in reply to shootingstar67)

RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 6:59:35 PM

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I often wonder where this myth origionated, and who disseminated it.

Can anyone trace it back?

(in reply to shootingstar67)

RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 7:30:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

<snip>...I didn't go into any situation with the expressed desire to 'do it to be a better Master'; I did it to be helpful and to be a better PERSON.

M. Fire-

Excellent distinction. I quite agree.

Stay warm,
Lawrence

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 7:36:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

So Masters I am asking you. Would you ever consider bottoming? Not because you'd enjoy it but because it would make you a better dom?

I cannot imagine that this would make my Daddy a better dominant. Why would doing something he did not enjoy add to our dynamic?

Exactly, I agree.

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 8:21:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Qithoras

quote:

When someone else claims that bottoming gives them a better understanding of what they are doing, your claim that they are wrong portrays you as saying that your way is the only 'twue' way.

I don't claim that my answers are the only ones out there, or that my line of beliefs is the only one that works. However in this topic, this situation, my mind just screams No, in reply.

I'm just amazed that others aren't feeling the same.

My mind doesn't SCREAM no, it only does that when I am afraid of something. I am certainly not afraid of bottoming, and wow, if I had discovered that I actually did have some qualities of submission while someone was flogging me, that would have been a good thing to know about myself. I consider self-knowlege to be a good thing, even when the thing I have learned isn't so yummy.

So, given the option of bottoming, I just say No, thank you. Given the option of submitting, I just laugh.

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 9:24:57 PM

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quote:

My mind doesn't SCREAM no, it only does that when I am afraid of something. I am certainly not afraid of bottoming,

I am not afraid of the idea, simply because I wouldn't consent to it. I find my mind screams at me when things are (well to my beliefs anyway) wrong, in a massive way. To me, it would be the same as coming home to find your house floating in the air upside down, your mind would scream No, because in reality, something like that is wrong on so many levels.

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Knowing others is intelligence.
Knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength.
Mastering yourself is true power.

-Tao Te Ching

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/29/2007 9:43:47 PM

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Interesting question..and one I relate to when as a submissive, I often receive requests of "would you ever considering switching, being Domme or Topping?"

Other than just saying, hell no, I try to explain that:

a: being submissive is what I am
b: being submissive and a bottom is what turns me on
c: I can empathize in an intellectual and emotional sense with a switch, Top, Dom or Domme
d: I could behave as a switch, Top or a Domme in an acting capacity, a helpful capacity, or experimental capacity, but it would never be from my sexual core; those actions simply do not arouse me.

I don't feel that I am missing out by not doing the opposite of what I am, I know enough about the synergy between my needs and my opposite's needs and how they mesh; interestingly enough, I get turned on from seeing or reading BDSM activities from BOTH the Dom and sub perspective, while I only identify with the sub side in my own relationships.

But I feel that I make a great submissive simply because I give my energy to the Dom and take his energy and the exchange is what makes each of us know the other, without having to consider practicing the roles.

(in reply to Qithoras)

RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/30/2007 1:01:49 AM

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I've always respected authority, but I never liked being bossed about. There was and is as much chance of me bottoming as there was of me joining the armed forces. Such a proposal makes about as much sense to me as dressing and acting like a woman to appreciate being a man. pffttt...

Focus.

(in reply to shootingstar67)

RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/30/2007 9:08:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Qithoras

I don't claim that my answers are the only ones out there, or that my line of beliefs is the only one that works. However in this topic, this situation, my mind just screams No, in reply.

I'm just amazed that others aren't feeling the same.

Thank you for the clarification, I can see where you are coming from with that 'NO'.

(in reply to Qithoras)

RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/30/2007 9:36:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Qithoras

Anne Rice? Read one of her books back in High School, but I thought it was overrated.

Why do you say that?

Sorry for butting my little sub butt in here, but I HAVE to comment on Anne Rice's books. I totally understand why you, as a man would find Rice's erotica books to be overrated. I JUST now posted a comment in the Sub Forum, saying that the Beauty Trilogy is the BEST D/s PORN written for a female...EVER!!!

For a woman, I think Rice fulfills the dreams of a woman more than a man. I found that she was able to completely get into the slaves' heads and captures the inner struggle that many of us have- that unbreakable human spirit and pride, the need to surrender it all, the fear, the shame, the excitement, the temptation to rebel...utterly delicious and eternally arousing. When I read the Beauty Trilogies, I thought my head was going to explode.

Exit to Eden was OK, but not as good as the Beauty Trilogy, although the scene where the girl is stripped naked in the car, and then enters the house naked on her knees, and then is laced into the corset and the boots and the gloves....YUMMY...

One book that I felt was terribly overrated was The Marketplace. It was a brilliant idea, but poorly executed. The writing was cheesy throughout the entire book until you get to the epilogue where Chris is being worked over by Grendel...the writing was HOT there...finally you feel as if you are right there and you can feel the heat and intensity of their relationship and how close they are to falling over the edge, with Chris having NO LIMITS and Grendel being afraid that he just might take everything Chris is surrendering...damn if it hadn't been a scene between two dudes I would have bought the second book.

I really wish there was some better written Pron out there...I have written several short stories involving an Edwardian era school for girls that involves quite a bit of OTK spanking, but all that's already in my head and I'm just spilling it out onto the paper. I wish somebody else would write something yummy.

Anyhooo...since I already butted in, I'll put my two cents worth in. As a 100% sub (meaning I have ZERO desire to be in control or wield a riding crop) I would never survive being a top. The thought of my husband ever having his bottom spanked or having his...er...extremities clothes-pinned totally turns me off. I don't think I could ever get that thought out of my head...eeeew! When we get new toys, he tests them on his arm, and then we have a "test run" with the equipment before we play. We take a very clinical approach to the sensations, the mechanics, etc., and I give him total feedback on it and tell him where I think my limits might be, and if it's something I like...we transition into play mode.

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(in reply to Qithoras)

RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/30/2007 9:56:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shootingstar67

In the old guard you earned the title of "Master" by serving as a 24/7 slave for a year. I am sure they didn't like it but they paid their dues by doing it and earned the right to rule.

I t makes complete sense to me. I think some Masters could really use bottoming/submissive experience just for sensitivy training and understanding more the perspective of those beneath them.

Of course the one Master I ever suggested it to is never talking to me again.

So Masters I am asking you. Would you ever consider bottoming? Not because you'd enjoy it but because it would make you a better dom?

In the realm of D/s-NO WAY- NOT FOR ME! There are other arenas of life to be "submissive" in for Me which make me a better Domme.

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/30/2007 10:10:53 AM

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I do think that taking on the role of the submissive (or the bottom - how ever you would like to phrase it) can be beneficial.

However, the idea of giving up a full year of my life in order to better understand the true power exchange within 24/7 service?

That's rather...unappealing.

As stated, I do believe experiencing things from the bottom/submissive perspective can be beneficial, if it's a role that is in the least bit pleasing to you. I personally find the occasional submissive experience to be theraputic - as such, I've learned first hand how a certain play element can impact a person mentally and physically. That said, it is certainly not a necessary step for one to become a good Master.

< Message edited by TheScrivener -- 11/30/2007 10:12:25 AM >

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RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/30/2007 10:19:47 AM

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This thread illustrates one of the most serious problems in BDSM - the lack of accepted moral authorities.

People seek a set of rules that tells them how to behave and how to feel. Many look to the Bible - but there is very little biblical guidance on BDSM. Its true that some people can find it in there, but some people can find a biblical preferance for sattelite over Cable TV. If the biblical Judeo-Christian God had anything to say about BDSM, He chose to make his message very cryptic.

Others look to modern scientific research. But the serious scientific community simple does not investigate BDSM. Do a Google Scholar search. There are thousands of serious scholarly articles on homosexuality for example, but nearly nothing on BDSM.

Yesterday at the Republican presidential debates a Democrat activist (operative?) asked all the Republican candidates about homosexuality policy. Both parties have policies about homosexuality - not necessarily sensible policies but policies none the less. What is the official policy position of the Democrats (or the Republicans) on BDSM?

The simple fact is that there are few or no recognized authorities on BDSM issues. Hence we get threads like this based on the supposed authority of the quasi-mythical LeatherMen. Maybe these guys had all the answers but how would anyone know?

Did they conduct double blind research? Did they publish in peer reviewed journals? Did they print a canonical book of faith? Did they promulgate a party platform?

I once became a priest in the Universal Life Church. At that time it cost $1.00. My buddy became a bishop - that cost $5.00. Therefore I am a moral authority. When you are troubled with these kind of unansered and perhaps unanserable questions - ask me. If I feel its too tough a question I'll ask my buddy the bishop.

Rejoice kinksters, your wait is over. I will answer all such questions authoritatively - for a modest fee.

(in reply to gorgeous1)

RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/30/2007 10:19:59 AM

Koala

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Been there, done that. Learned a lot, and I think it worked for me.

I don't see it being for everyone though.

So to answer the OP... maybe?

(in reply to TheScrivener)

RE: would you consider bottoming? - 11/30/2007 10:43:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shootingstar67

Would you ever consider bottoming? Not because you'd enjoy it but because it would make you a better dom?

No, for a simple reason... it would NOT make me a better Domme.
OK, this is ask a Master, but as a Dominant, I hear this often as well.
I do not have a submissive streak. If I did bottom, I would be a very BAD bottom. I dont enjoy it, nothing would feel good, and I would learn nothing. So, how exactly would that make me a better Domme? It would not improve my understanding of what my slave experiences... he is a masochist and the pain excites him. No matter what was done to me, I would never gain insight into that. If anything, Id think that Id be hesitant to do something to someone else if I truly didnt like the effect it had on me, ev if the subject enjoyed it. Which, all in all, would make me a WORSE Dominant... wouldn't it?

DV

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(in reply to shootingstar67)

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