"Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (Full Version)

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subinfyniti -> "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/6/2004 4:50:36 AM)

I have read numerous sites over several years whereas a submissive states that she has received " formal training" from Master "such and such", it reads like a resume. I am not sure if that is suppose to impress future partners, ie. less " training" they have to do???
First of all, when I looked for a Dom partner, I didn't feel stating that I was trained by Master such and such held any importance. Afterall, if things worked out so well with that Dom, why would I have posted a resume seeking a new Dom?
I believe our desires to make the person we are currently with happy is the important factor. I also believe that if a submissive really wants to be a submissive, they feel it inside, it is something that one "knows" inside. Reading is a good source of learning to find out the things we may not understand when embarking on this journey. I have read many great books. Stating that one has been trained by someone seems just silly to me.
Does one Dom have a higher status than another? If so, who decides?
I am a submissive female who knew she was kinky somewhere in my teens. I believe I have become more refined over the years yet, I feel that is a fine art that I have accomplished. Sorry, giving no credit to one particular person. Life experiences have made me who I am today. I am comfortable with that.
Maybe I just feel that my desire to please was such that I didn't need training. Secondly, I feel that each relationship is different and each person desires different things and seeks out different things from that relationship. Therefore what worked for Master such and such may be something that Master such and such"2" has no interest in.
Afterall, all submissives are unique, therefore, so are Dominants.

sub_infyniti........ actually " trained" by no one, though have been in numerous relationships with Dom's. Then I found one that fit " for both of us".....peace



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/6/2004 5:20:20 AM)

I find your question very intruiging. Given this lifestyle does't really have universal acceptance, very few people are willing to attach a name, face, and phone number to anything they do in it. This creates a very secretive and mostly anonymous community in which it is almost impossible to have meaningful references.

I am sure there are well known tops in their individual communities who's "training" would carry some weight. I am sure that those in Lawrence's community would treat a girl he had worked with extensively with a certain amount of respect that would not be accorded any girl off the street. At the very least, they could trust that this girl wouldn't freak out in the middle of a scene and rush to call the cops.

However, on a national or international level, I can really only think of one top, John Warren, who would have that kind of cache for me. I am not particullarly active in any scene, so perhaps my understanding of the national and international scene is outdated.

I'd love to hear more about what others think on this. Do you know and internationally famous dom/mes or Trainers? Do you think the BDSM community is ready for such a thing?

Yours,
Taggard



subinfyniti -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/6/2004 9:15:01 AM)

I do agree with much of what you say. Though I would hope that a Dom would allow himself to get to know a person well enough that he could trust she would not run off screaming in the middle of a scene. OK. Atleast in my mind. Then again I can only speak for myself. I have always had to feel comfortable with the person I am with and my surroundings in order to execute that feeling of giving up control.
This may not be such in all aspects of the culture.
As for John Warren, I had the pleasure of sitting next to him at a recent dinner where he was the guest speaker. Listening to him speak was enchanting, enlightening, he was humorous, intelligent and also witty.
Maybe at times, some submissives do use the names of those they have been " trained" by as some type of reference. Just something I cannot understand.
To me.....everyone's desires and needs are a bit different. Therefore what worked in a previous relationship may very well not be what works in a current one.
infyniti



Estring -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/6/2004 9:19:30 AM)

I totally agree with you sub. I have always said that the desire to serve is the most important thing. Experience is not important, I will train you my way anyway. If I saw that a sub had been trained by Sir Paul McCartney, I would be impressed. Otherwise I don't care what Sir or Madam trained you.



MistressKiss -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/6/2004 6:30:58 PM)

PAUL MCCARTNEY IS A DOM?????

snicker snicker giggle giggle



ShadeDiva -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/7/2004 1:01:27 AM)

LOL Kiss!

I always saw him as sorta submissive, myself!

*chuckle*

~ShadeDiva



DCMaster -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/7/2004 3:26:45 AM)

For me it is nice to know that a slave has accepted training in the past. I tire of beginners or wannas so it is not important who trained them, it is great that they have been trained. Protocols are no less valid when a slave states them. Some of my best ideas have originated from a conversation with a slave

MJ



subinfyniti -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/7/2004 4:47:58 AM)

DCMaster.....How could one tire of training a slave? I disagree with the statement that it is not important who trained them. It is in my opinion only that the first part of a relationship are when all the fundamental ground rules are established. Sometimes it is the most fun part of the relationship. ( Looking back and smiling) When two people enter a relationship, they are both looking for something from that relationship. Every relationship is a give and take.
I still believe that "wanting" to be a submissive is the most important part. Fulfilling the needs of the Dom that you give your gift of submission to is the most important factor.
Each Dom is unique, with unique needs, wants and desires. Therefore, I purposely tried to forget the needs of my previous Dom's. All I know.... it worked [:)]
peace,
infyniti



Sinergy -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/7/2004 5:59:01 AM)

quote:

LOL Kiss!

I always saw him as sorta submissive, myself!

*chuckle*

~ShadeDiva


Not submissive enough to give rock concerts at a ticket price which real people can afford...

On the other hand, do you still love him now that he is 64?

Sinergy



Estring -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/7/2004 9:29:37 AM)

Actually, Paul McCartney is a pretty controlling guy (despite being the cute Beatle). I was trying to think of someone with a Sir in their name. All I could think of was Elton John or Paul McCartney. The choice was obvious. [:D]



Sinergy -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/7/2004 11:16:45 AM)

quote:

Elton John


Graham Norton interviewed Elton John on his show, and asked "How does it feel to be a queen knighted by a Queen?"

Im still rolling on the floor laughing.

Sinergy



subinfyniti -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/7/2004 2:27:07 PM)

I saw both Paul McCartney and Elton John in concert. Actually I saw Elton John several times, McCartney only once. "Sir's" or not, Paul McCartney is still hot at 64 [:)] and I grew up on Elton John Music so I still love seeing him in concert.
THOUGH.....agreed..... concert ticket prices are outrageous!!! Missed the last round of Elton's tour. Couldn't get my tickets within the 18 minute sell out time!!!
"Maybe I'm Amazed".........[;)]



Voltare -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/13/2004 11:01:56 AM)

How can stating people you've been involved with be a bad thing? I like to know what I'm dealing with, personally - even if I've never heard of the Dom in question.

I can understand your point of view - being used as a sort of reference or a measure of status isn't something that floats my boat, but the statement that 'formal' training has taken place tells me that I'm not dealing with a cybernewbie and it lends questions as to who, where, and how the slave was trained. Formally trained slaves (sometimes) have very different views on behavior and protocol, and it helps to know what point of reference they are coming from.

Oh, and I'm not old enough to have seen Elton John or Paul McCartney in their hay days.
(grins)

Stephan



kiki blue -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/15/2004 4:12:17 AM)

I see 'training' as pertaining to certain acts. Being trained how to flog, cane, spank or perform needleplay properly, say. Or learning certain rituals, like the Tea Ceremony.

I don't think anyone can teach someone else "how" to submit or dominate, but they can help them learn the best way for them. They can help them understand what processes may be useful, what their wants, needs and desires are, and how to communicate better - but the final result will vary from person to person.

There are some useful life skills that can be handy to know (wine/beer/any other alcohol appreciation, literature, how to debate and hold a conversation, singing, musical instrument aptidude), that can help accentuate who you are. Even learning something like the "slave positions" can be a fun thing, but it can all go out the door, if the person you choose to be with doesn't require them.

I think the best sort of training a person can have - for either dominant or submissive role - is to be the best sort of person they can be. Learn self discipline, improve yourself the way you want to be improved, take that class, do that course, read those books, work through your issues and baggage for you. Be the happiest and most content you can be, and when you find someone you want to explore a relationship with, then you have a finer product to offer.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/15/2004 5:54:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiki blue
I see 'training' as pertaining to certain acts. Being trained how to flog, cane, spank or perform needleplay properly, say. Or learning certain rituals, like the Tea Ceremony.


Wonderful post in general, but (as usual) I'd like to comment on a few things.

I really agree with your perception of training. You can not teach dominance, only the actions of a dominant. The same holds true with submission. You can, however, guide a person to discover their own natures by showing them the thoughts and words of others. Training does not always need to be physical. Training the mind is a very useful endevour.

I don't think any sort of training ever goes "out the door." One of the more esoteric principles of dance pedagogy is that you teach how to learn to move, not how to move. Dance class trains the mind and body to be able to quickly pick up new steps, styles, and patterns of movement. I think all training works this way. Once you understand your own method of learning, it becomes easier to learn any new skill your partner may require.

Training is one of my core kinks, and it was wonderful to see such a display of thought on the subject.

Yours,
Taggard



kiki blue -> RE: "Formal Training" tsk....tsk....tsk..... (7/15/2004 4:03:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
I think all training works this way. Once you understand your own method of learning, it becomes easier to learn any new skill your partner may require.


I totally agree. Training the mind to be able to adapt and adopt new experiences and behaviours is a very important skill.

All this talk of dancing makes me want to go out and learn!

quote:


Training is one of my core kinks, and it was wonderful to see such a display of thought on the subject.

Anytime!



MzBerlin -> This Berlins' POV (7/16/2004 2:23:55 AM)

Hey Y'all-
I prefer to see 'training' as the actual 'evolution of the relationship.' My experience is EXTREMELY LIMITED in the whole formal training thing and, as I've stated before, I am only interested in a LT BDSM relationship. In my mind, the word "training" has a sinister connotation. Maybe there's a psychological reason behind it, but perhaps I just prefer "Evolution of the relationship" or (this is someone elses' quote that I love to use) "submitting to the dynamic" of whatever has been negotiated and then negotiating the next step. Circular.
Hope this hasn't been to vague and that I'm not posting inappropriately.
As Always-
Berlin



Sinergy -> RE: This Berlins' POV (7/16/2004 7:05:48 AM)

quote:

I don't think any sort of training ever goes "out the door." One of the more esoteric principles of dance pedagogy is that you teach how to learn to move, not how to move. Dance class trains the mind and body to be able to quickly pick up new steps, styles, and patterns of movement. I think all training works this way. Once you understand your own method of learning, it becomes easier to learn any new skill your partner may require.


I recently started dancing again and I completely agree with these posts, I did want to throw in my $0.02 cents.

I was involved in modern dance in high school and college. I dont consider myself to have ever been much more than passable at it, but I really did enjoy it.

I taught martial arts from the age of 25 to 40. The art I taught involved a lot of kicking, punching, grappling, and throwing / takedowns, etc. I also did various other martial arts and found that my core art made it easier to pick up other forms.

Now I am partner dancing, and I find that I am still using my core martial art principles because I have a basic understanding of body mechanics in motion. Additionally, I know a lot of footwork, and the new stuff is simply more footwork to learn.

As Taggard stated, once you learn something you are simply layering the next things you learn on top of what you already know. So there is no such thing as wasted learning.

And on a final note, I personally think I learned far more from my students than they ever learned from me :)

Sinergy



MrThorns -> formal training (7/16/2004 7:20:13 AM)

infyniti,

When I think of training, I think of what I am going to teach a slave about how I would like certain things to be done. I also think of things that would improve that slave's life. Would she like to learn how to paint? To draw? Sculpt? Play an instrument? Cook? etc etc. Whatever skills I have and am able to teach her. I teach skills. I don't teach happiness. That is something that a girl needs to find for herself...within herself.

I think formal training can be a wonderful thing. I dont think training should get in the way of having fun though.

~Thorns



topcat -> RE: This Berlins' POV (7/16/2004 6:36:39 PM)

quote:

In my mind, the word "training" has a sinister connotation.


Midear Berlin-

I quite agree- that's why I usually call it operant conditioning......


Stay warm,
Lawrence



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