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Sub drop - 8/19/2005 5:38:10 AM

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Emerald mentioned sub drop in another thread today. I was also called to task for asserting that I would not advise subs to play with doms who had not been properly trained and mentored. I would like to tie the two together.

I did a rape scene with a young sub at Black Rose in 2001. The girl was used by several men and women. She was absolutely flying; but the next day she needed a lot of aftercare. I was lucky that Sir Saul was there and had a lot of experience with this particular scene. She was OK within a couple of hours and we did it again the next year.

What would have happened to her if I had not had a support system?

Do any of you DIY doms have a good answer?

_____________________________

Master Jerry

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 8:27:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45
What would have happened to her if I had not had a support system?

Do any of you DIY doms have a good answer?

She'd have had a rough time of it, hopefully found others in her support network to get some support from and would have moved on and been fine.

Subdrop isn't going to damage anyone and it isn't permanent, just like subspace. The specific circumstances of subdrop might cause friction or possibly oversensitivities and insecurities to be dealt with...but the sub drop itself is just a natural reaction, something like PMS, that passes on its own.

(in reply to lovingmaster45)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 8:40:13 AM

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What happens is they basically have a bad day and you miss an opportunity to make a breakthrough that can open them up to new possibilities and strengths. But it's not fatal to the relationship if you miss your cue now and again.
You can always place them in a safe environment, (you know this stuff, pretty basic.) or keep them busy. I had a day recently where the girl was dropping pretty hard after a night of use and I just had a lot of things I had to do. It kept her in a mind set by keeping her busy all day, then forcing her to some down time with a pen and paper for journals with specific topic to write. A mixture of tasks and down time where they can't dwell in a bad place can work if you can't be there. I managed to get some alone time about 24 hours later and she recovered quickly. Sometimes a little attention deprivation followed by a lot of attention causes a big swing and brings them back around nicely.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 8:50:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angrylibrarian

What happens is they basically have a bad day and you miss an opportunity to make a breakthrough that can open them up to new possibilities and strengths. But it's not fatal to the relationship if you miss your cue now and again.
You can always place them in a safe environment, (you know this stuff, pretty basic.) or keep them busy. I had a day recently where the girl was dropping pretty hard after a night of use and I just had a lot of things I had to do. It kept her in a mind set by keeping her busy all day, then forcing her to some down time with a pen and paper for journals with specific topic to write. A mixture of tasks and down time where they can't dwell in a bad place can work if you can't be there. I managed to get some alone time about 24 hours later and she recovered quickly. Sometimes a little attention deprivation followed by a lot of attention causes a big swing and brings them back around nicely.

LOL don't you love when their subdrop gets REALLY irrational and they start getting upset because you're spending so much time and energy helping them through it? We're all crazy!!!

(in reply to Angrylibrarian)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 9:19:37 AM

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Are we going to have ANOTHER thread about separating the "real" doms from the fake ones? Jesus, people, haven't you all gotten tired of this?

(in reply to lovingmaster45)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 9:26:19 AM

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Well your all crazy in a beautiful way so I forgive you en masse. I know it's evil but when a girl feels bad about all the attention I have to expend I know there’s an opportunity to push harder so yes I do love it a little.

Another thing you can do is just not let them drop. Its pretty hard to get into your sub drop if you've been handed a tooth brush a pair of gloves a bucket and towels and are told to scrub the tiles without getting up for a few hours. (I'm also a huge fan of forced exercise in serene places. An assignment to go running or walking on the beach can do wonders for the soul) Extend the scene into the following day and make the drop occur at bedtime in a big soft comforter.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 9:42:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angrylibrarian

Well your all crazy in a beautiful way so I forgive you en masse. I know it's evil but when a girl feels bad about all the attention I have to expend I know there’s an opportunity to push harder so yes I do love it a little.

HA an opportunist!

quote:

Another thing you can do is just not let them drop. Its pretty hard to get into your sub drop if you've been handed a tooth brush a pair of gloves a bucket and towels and are told to scrub the tiles without getting up for a few hours. (I'm also a huge fan of forced exercise in serene places. An assignment to go running or walking on the beach can do wonders for the soul) Extend the scene into the following day and make the drop occur at bedtime in a big soft comforter.

An excellent point. When I was with my first dom we had a LDR and he would see me about one weekend a month. When he left Sunday nights I HAD to get myself right back into my schoolwork again and pretty much just learned to shove the drop off until the next Friday when I could relax and let the stress go. It wasn't a pleasant experience and I think eventually just got too tiring, but it is a good technique to know in case you don't have time to just drop.

(in reply to Angrylibrarian)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 1:13:32 PM

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quote:

Are we going to have ANOTHER thread about separating the "real" doms from the fake ones? Jesus, people, haven't you all gotten tired of this?

Lordandmaster

i feel i have grown more able to discern a real Dom from a wanna-be or a "please f**k me" guy. However, i still do not understand everything that people say here. Could You please explain something(s) to me, Lam? i trust You to give me solid information...so You're the person i ask.

What is sub drop? Is it only after a scene as strange as the Op post described? What is after-care?

(BTW the scene described by the Op post would probably leave me catatonic for life; i have a huge gang-rape phobia.)

Thank You Lam for the help.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/19/2005 1:19:10 PM >

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 1:37:58 PM

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Sub Drop

Sub drop is simply a drop in happy body chemicals and/or depressed emotions after the high of a scene/experience. Like subspace, sub drop is experienced differently with each person and can present itself in a variety of forms.

Tops also experience both top space and top drop, though it's less discussed.

Aftercare is simply what you do after a scene to reconnect and bring back down to earth. Some people need lots of cuddling, some people just need water and some people prefer to go into a corner alone. Both tops and bottoms should learn what they need for aftercare and communicate it with who they play with before a scene.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 2:51:27 PM

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Perfect answer.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 4:04:12 PM

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I guess nor L&M...is this the spot for a head shake or an eyeroll...

Fury

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 7:25:41 PM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

What happens is they basically have a bad day and you miss an opportunity to make a breakthrough that can open them up to new possibilities and strengths. But it's not fatal to the relationship if you miss your cue now and again.
You can always place them in a safe environment, (you know this stuff, pretty basic.) or keep them busy. I had a day recently where the girl was dropping pretty hard after a night of use and I just had a lot of things I had to do. It kept her in a mind set by keeping her busy all day, then forcing her to some down time with a pen and paper for journals with specific topic to write. A mixture of tasks and down time where they can't dwell in a bad place can work if you can't be there. I managed to get some alone time about 24 hours later and she recovered quickly. Sometimes a little attention deprivation followed by a lot of attention causes a big swing and brings them back around nicely.

Are you serious? Are you really approaching this from a POV that you control someone elses emotions? That you can actually control this by putting someone in an environment and that makes everything ok? Must be a nice skill.....

L

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Angrylibrarian)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 7:36:26 PM

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Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

Sub drop is simply a drop in happy body chemicals and/or depressed emotions after the high of a scene/experience. Like subspace, sub drop is experienced differently with each person and can present itself in a variety of forms.

Tops also experience both top space and top drop, though it's less discussed.

Well! Well! Bugger me dead, and here I was thinking that sub drop was the subbs bungie jumping. Now I can see it all a whole line up of Dominants and submissives all mass bungie jumping... There ya go for a description of Dom Drop mixed in with sub drop.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Sub drop - 8/19/2005 8:04:19 PM

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Joined: 5/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

Are you serious? Are you really approaching this from a POV that you control someone elses emotions? That you can actually control this by putting someone in an environment and that makes everything ok? Must be a nice skill.....

Not meaning to speak for AL, but I think I know what he is suggesting and it is a technique I've used when I have to see to my own aftercare. I rarely have the luxury of spending most of the following day in a droppy haze so instead I keep very busy and basically don't give myself the time to focus on the drop. It doesn't eliminated it, but rather postpones it. I'd much rather be dropping right around bed time when I'm going to doze off anyway than mid-afternoon when I have other things I need to focus on.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Sub drop - 8/20/2005 12:46:43 AM

Veav

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Joined: 8/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily
Are you serious? Are you really approaching this from a POV that you control someone elses emotions? That you can actually control this by putting someone in an environment and that makes everything ok? Must be a nice skill.....

*blank look* Are you saying you can't control someone else's emotions?

Eh... laying that aside, this is actually an interesting topic for me, one I'd love to see expanded upon. I don't have a great deal of experience but I have done a few scenes, one without pain and one with. The one without was a much more laidback withdrawal, but the one with - I collapsed at the end, literally, something I hadn't seen coming. After care took place quite successfully, mind you...

What is it like from the top end? What were people's first experiences with this?

-edit for clarification: not collapsed, "in need of medical attention", but collapsed "totally drained and quite happy about it". Not that much pain. }:D

< Message edited by Veav -- 8/20/2005 12:48:31 AM >

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Yes, I am Gordon Freeman. Accept this, and move on with your life.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: Sub drop - 8/20/2005 2:27:28 AM

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

quote:

Sub drop is simply a drop in happy body chemicals and/or depressed emotions after the high of a scene/experience. Like subspace, sub drop is experienced differently with each person and can present itself in a variety of forms.

Tops also experience both top space and top drop, though it's less discussed.

Aftercare is simply what you do after a scene to reconnect and bring back down to earth. Some people need lots of cuddling, some people just need water and some people prefer to go into a corner alone. Both tops and bottoms should learn what they need for aftercare and communicate it with who they play with before a scene.

Emeraldslave2

Em, thank you for the information. i'm still confused. Does it take scenes as intense as the Op describes to set off sub space? And if so, then is sub drop a mental health issue? Does sub space only occur during public play? Who gives aftercare to the Dom? How long does sub drop last?

Don't mean to be a pest..just not at all sure what this all means.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 8/20/2005 4:41:37 AM >

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(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Sub drop - 8/20/2005 8:06:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures
Does it take scenes as intense as the Op describes to set off sub space?

No, what sets a person into subspace and sub drop is highly variable, it can be light medium or extreme.

quote:

Does sub space only occur during public play?

No, it can happen after any high/really good experience.

quote:

Who gives aftercare to the Dom?

The sub or someone else. It can be awesome to watch the people in scenes give aftercare to eachother.

quote:

How long does sub drop last?

Depends on the person, it's highly variable. If it lasts more than a day or two then there might be some deeper issue going on.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

RE: Sub drop - 8/21/2005 7:33:06 AM

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Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
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My husband is a DIY dom. We tend to work things out with good old common sense. If we feel there's a situation that we can't handle on our own, we don't do it.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to lovingmaster45)

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