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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/23/2007 3:42:22 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

...................... is obviously chasing a fantasy. How could he not be?

Akasha

we are all chasing fantasies are we not?

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/23/2007 3:43:18 PM

MistressTaboo

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Make friends with the local clubs..many Domme's loan out their subs for play. I've loaned my boy out for his cooking and his computer skills before.

The nice thing is most of the subs are different...you can borrow a Geek one day and a Adonis the next...there are no strings because their strings are to THEIR mistress...not to you...to you it's just an honor to serve. Plus if you've seen or met them at a party...you know what you are getting...a preview of comming attractions so to speak.

I play HARD...and I've been asked by a few FemDomme couples to play their sub hard. The Domme can't play her husband as hard as she'd play someone else from an emotional levelor she's just not a hard player as he is. Or I've been asked to do a punishment beating...cause she can't. The Domme can be there or he can be sent to the house...I prefer them there so they can do the afterplay. And the best part? He goes home with her!

Always fun...Just get out in your local community. Let people know what you are looking for. "If you build it they will come."

Mistress Taboo

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/23/2007 4:31:00 PM

unravel

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Okay this is a very interesting thread, with rather insightful posts up there. As stated above by some, going the couple route seems wise and potentially efficient to get to Your means.
Another option is to go through fetish magazines and get contact information from male models. Some if not most, gay or straight or bi, are doomed to be active in the Lifestyle, and being models maybe more open to the concept of "remuneration for services rendered".
Good luck!
unravel

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/23/2007 4:44:18 PM

Dari

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Alternately, you could just become a pro-Domme with an incredibly small client list? And screen your potential "clients" so that their desires from a professional session match your kinks?

Have your cake, eat it too?

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/23/2007 4:48:55 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Because of that, I can't help but envy male submissives. They have a lot of options.

IF they have money. And IF they don't want a connection.

quote:

I do get all that I could ever want - and more - in my primary relationship.

In that situation, i wouldn't envy anyone.

quote:

*I* know I am not a stalker, a freak, a man, unclean, unsafe or unstable; but for a man to just accept that at face value and be willing to go into it, and want nothing in return, tells me he's not selective in the least.

Even with your "exposure", so to speak?

quote:

I could go post an ad on craigslist right now stating clearly what I want and expect; I would get a hundred replies. Do you think any of those men are safe, experienced, skilled, hygeinic, bright, with high self esteem? Or are they possibly a little odd, maybe unsafe, kind of creepy, or possibly murderers? The nice thing about the idea of a professional dungeon with male submissives is that they are obviously building a clientele, which means they have some skills.

Oh noes, subs who are a little odd!

Maybe it would be different for pro subs since they would have to be superlative to have a clientele, but playing for money is not a universal guarantee of quality in ProDommes... they may not be as creepy as i am, but i've seen quite a few profiles that fell short on "bright", and quite a few that would count as "unsafe" if you're willing to include "larcenous". And if someone can't even pass for intelligent and sincere on the Internet, i'd hate to see them in person!

If you wanna trade that for posting an ad that nets a couple of overseas scammers and possibly some ridicule, you're welcome to it.

< Message edited by petdave -- 12/23/2007 5:34:25 PM >

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 2:03:47 AM

SubmissiveGael

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[any man willing to submit RANDOMLY to a stranger with NO strings attached is obviously chasing a fantasy. How could he not be?]

What is wrong with this? Can not a man accept your cash, professionally, and enjoy the activities that ensue? I wouldnt want a job I was not expected to get something out of aside from cash.

I like the idea of professional male submissives. If I had the necessary skills honed from years of experiance, I might be interested in such a venture myself, but I don't, and anyway my primary focus now is finding a Dominant female to be my partner in a relationship - and that is no easy feat!

Good luck in your search. I think that your expectations about the sub's adgenda are unrealistic, but then, given your vast experiance, what do I know?

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 4:29:11 AM

Politesub53

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The one danger a male submissive would have, compared to a pro Domme, is as follows. The Dominatrix is experienced at inflicting pain safely. There is no guarantee that a femal wanting to pay a male submissive has such skills.

The Domina is in the safer enviroment as She is effectively controlling the client, and not the other way around. Maybe a male could operate this way in a "House" were another D or s type could monitor the session.

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 8:40:59 AM

littlesarbonn

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The problem you perceive is that the ones you are seeking who are "skilled" are generally looking for something a bit more solid as it took skill to get them to where they are now. I know I wouldn't ever pursue a relationship that's just transactional. And yes, I have a lot of experience and skill. But I think there are a lot just like this that once they've accumulated experience and the skill set that assists one become a desired submissive, they really aren't looking to "hop in the sack (bdsm wise)". It's unfortunate, but personally I think you're going to be more successful with escort services (if you can find a discreet, quality one) or cultivating one of those quality submissives out there into being more what you want him to be. The latter is much harder to do, but I've seen it happen in the circles within which I travel. It often takes a great deal of blunt honesty and hard work for the dominant in the beginning, but in the end I've seen it work out really well (not talking about me here...I've been a leader in several prominent femdom organizations from the submissive male perspective over the years, so I've had the first hand opportunity to observe and participate in a lot of very interesting power exchanges that before I never believed would have been possible).

Anyway, I tend to usually avoid these types of threads, but I thought I'd at least try to give a perspective I think might help. I don't expect it will be taken well (it never is), so I'll just leave it at that. I certainly have no further desire to argue about anything anymore.

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 9:00:17 AM

kitttty

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quote:

any man willing to submit RANDOMLY to a stranger with NO strings attached is obviously chasing a fantasy. How could he not be?

Que?

If you want to Domme a man in a NSA arrangement and pay him, you are not chasing a fantasy how? And i have to say, BDSM is basically all chasing fantasy.

But really, I find this to be a strange hypocrisy- you want to pick the perfect sub and pay him and this does not reflect on your craziness, but a sub who would submit to a woman he does not know NSA has issues? Are you not different sides of the same coin?

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 4:57:52 PM

littlesarbonn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

quote:

any man willing to submit RANDOMLY to a stranger with NO strings attached is obviously chasing a fantasy. How could he not be?

Que?

If you want to Domme a man in a NSA arrangement and pay him, you are not chasing a fantasy how? And i have to say, BDSM is basically all chasing fantasy.

But really, I find this to be a strange hypocrisy- you want to pick the perfect sub and pay him and this does not reflect on your craziness, but a sub who would submit to a woman he does not know NSA has issues? Are you not different sides of the same coin?

For the record, this was NOT a response to me as I never said what was stated here (I believe this was another one of those fast replies without acknowledging that the quote came from another post).

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 5:03:19 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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There isn't a record posts get forgotten after two weeks, under all the new crap.

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 5:08:16 PM

littlesarbonn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

There isn't a record posts get forgotten after two weeks, under all the new crap.

Oh, you'd be surprised. I still have people bring up something I wrote ten years ago because it still pisses them off, and I don't even remember what it is I wrote.

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 6:41:37 PM

erebus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Why?
Because you can always go see a professional dominatrix.
Much has been said about pro femdoms. But when it comes right down to it, at least male submissives/bottoms have an *option* (in some cities, dozens of options) to see a woman in a very nicely equipped dungeon, no strings attached, to explore a wide variety of fantasies and roleplaying.

The common argument for this is: A femdom has dozens of submissive men willing to serve. Just open your collarme email. There are men willing to do ANYTHING and you don't even have to pay them! The answer to this is simple - nothing is free. Period. And I don't mind that. That's why I am MORE happy to compensate a man with cash to ensure that there are no obligations, and that I will get what I want, and then that will be it. Over. Unless I decide I want to pay him again. There's a wonderful sense of comfort knowing that a man will not expect anything in return.

I'm not seeing the problem here. You may have to search a bit, and be quite specific with what you want, but you should find a submissive or three that will so what you want.

Why pay for what you can get for free? Many male submissives go to pro dommes because they are married, and cannot afford the entanglements of a relationship. Isn't that what you are looking for, really?

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/24/2007 7:18:23 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erebus

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Why?
Because you can always go see a professional dominatrix.
Much has been said about pro femdoms. But when it comes right down to it, at least male submissives/bottoms have an *option* (in some cities, dozens of options) to see a woman in a very nicely equipped dungeon, no strings attached, to explore a wide variety of fantasies and roleplaying.

The common argument for this is: A femdom has dozens of submissive men willing to serve. Just open your collarme email. There are men willing to do ANYTHING and you don't even have to pay them! The answer to this is simple - nothing is free. Period. And I don't mind that. That's why I am MORE happy to compensate a man with cash to ensure that there are no obligations, and that I will get what I want, and then that will be it. Over. Unless I decide I want to pay him again. There's a wonderful sense of comfort knowing that a man will not expect anything in return.

I'm not seeing the problem here. You may have to search a bit, and be quite specific with what you want, but you should find a submissive or three that will so what you want.

Why pay for what you can get for free? Many male submissives go to pro dommes because they are married, and cannot afford the entanglements of a relationship. Isn't that what you are looking for, really?

No matter how you break it down, if there was a pro male submissive market the same size as the pro femdom market, there's no way it's easier/better than looking for a needle in a haystrack regarding a submissive who is willing to submit,without expecting anything in return, but also brings to the table good qualities as a sub and a solid background.

For those that say looking for a no-strings sub (who will do it for free) is an easy alternative, I think it's totally unrealistic. Time is money. If I spend 5 hours on this quest, I am already way in the hole. And I probably wouldn't have success. And where to meet this mystery sub? At my house? No way I would let a stranger into my home without really knowing him, and the point of 'no strings' is no long courting process. This is another reason a pro sub would be ideal - they have a dungeon, the toys, and the gear. If I go meet a guy at a hotel, making it a neutral place, I am already down the $400 plus the time I invested (5 hours? I'll give that a bottom basement value of $1,500 since I'm self employed). I'd much rather pay a pro sub $300/hr if I can walk in and out and know that it was a good time.

Some others offered a few great suggestions I am looking into, possibly getting together with a couple, as well as getting in touch with a few producers of gay male bondage porn. Anyone know Tom "Ropes"? YUM! I'll gladly subsidize his time to spend a little while in the studio with one of his boy, if it's ok with all involved. I've loved his stuff since reviewing some of his porn 9 years ago on my site.

Akasha

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/25/2007 12:30:09 AM

Einzelganger

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I may be missing the point here, but since we never stop learning, I should like to think a male sub would submit to a very experienced domme for the experience. He's sure to learn something, wether he forsees it or not. I'm not very experienced, so perhaps this plays into my opinion, but if it were someone I trusted, I would do it for two reasons:

1. Making other people happy, be it my boss, coworkers, friends, you name it, just plain feels great; if it's a simple scene she wants, and it's within my power to help, then I sincerely hope she enjoys it. If so, that is my payment; it's a very precious commodity I would treasure for a long time, and I would have to pay for it dearly, were I to see a pro-domme.

2. As I am fairly new, I'm guaranteed to learn alot from it, and I never turn down free education. This is another excellent form of payment; think of what I would have to pay a pro-domme for the same education. Also, I would prefer to gain this experience from someone who doesn't consider it a business; there's a good chance I'm underestimating pro-dommes, but I'd prefer to learn from women who do it because their heart is in it.

I suppose my point is that there are other forms of payment, and I place far higher value on them than money.

As always, just my $0.02...

-Einzelgänger

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/25/2007 12:44:25 AM

CuriousLord

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AAkasha.. if you really want a pro sub, you can pay him. I'm sure that you can find a decent one who will do whatever you want for a fair price. I'm sure at least some of them are well equiped; if you pay enough, any of them certainly could be.

Honestly, though, I'm sure you could get one to perform relatively well without even having to pay. And don't tell me that that would be less than what subs get from a pro domme; I'm sure pro's don't always do everything a sub wants, either (I mean, seriously, they are the dom, right?).

So, if you're feeling disadvantaged, trust me, you're not. But, still, I feel like you're trying to make a point in favor of dommes selling their services. Com'n now.

This post is just really self-promoting in sentiment.

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/25/2007 8:09:15 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

AAkasha.. if you really want a pro sub, you can pay him. I'm sure that you can find a decent one who will do whatever you want for a fair price. I'm sure at least some of them are well equiped; if you pay enough, any of them certainly could be.

Honestly, though, I'm sure you could get one to perform relatively well without even having to pay. And don't tell me that that would be less than what subs get from a pro domme; I'm sure pro's don't always do everything a sub wants, either (I mean, seriously, they are the dom, right?).

So, if you're feeling disadvantaged, trust me, you're not. But, still, I feel like you're trying to make a point in favor of dommes selling their services. Com'n now.

This post is just really self-promoting in sentiment.

This is a very real question and a very real issue. You can't lose fact of something very central to this issue: I am happily married, primarily monogamous (I have some great online/phone partners and have engaged in some very casual, flirty, fly-by-night physical domination) for 6 years now. In discussions with my husband regarding the highest comfort level for moving into poly over the next year, we both agree the most ideal situation would be one that is completely transactional. If pro subs existed, he'd say "go for it." If they were gay, all the better. Neither of us are comfortable with developing a long term, ongoing, intimate and emotional relationship with a man just to satisfy my need for variety that becomes compelling, nagging, distracting at a ratio of 1:100 compared to how much I desire intimate, passionate, emotional, deep, loving BDSM (which I get with him). Sometimes I want a fly-by. It's just the way it is. We may go the other route, whereby I do develop an ongoing relationship with one man, or a few, for the purpose of casual encounters.

My point is still this -- there's always a price. Even with my online/phone partners it's never 100% about me. Nor should it be. That's not the way you nurture a relationship of mutual respect. There is some level of beauty in knowing that I could go get a slick session in a professional atmosphere at the drop of the hat, no hard feelings.

Others that have been around my postings and writings for the last, oh, say, 12 years (heh) will probably vouch that I have made this same gripe before, this isn't just a fleeting idea in my head. Back when I was single, it was more because I was so incredibly busy at the start of my career and in a variety of cities with travel, and always thought that a pro-sub-dungeon in every major city would have been a dream, because I didn't have the time to cultivate relationships. I still had lots of casual encounters with subs from the net in every city I visited -- and with a lot of them came headaches of expectations on the other end, no matter how much I said, "No strings attached."

Again, a major thing to remember is this. A submissive will jump at the idea because he believes "no strings submission" includes some, or all, of his fantasies. Trust me, it does not. And the minute he hears "it's over" then the guilt trip starts. I've been there.

Akasha

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/25/2007 12:15:23 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Again, a major thing to remember is this. A submissive will jump at the idea because he believes "no strings submission" includes some, or all, of his fantasies. Trust me, it does not. And the minute he hears "it's over" then the guilt trip starts. I've been there.

So it's like the old joke about prostitutes... you're not really paying them for sex. You're paying them to go away afterwards

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/25/2007 1:09:58 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Again, a major thing to remember is this. A submissive will jump at the idea because he believes "no strings submission" includes some, or all, of his fantasies. Trust me, it does not. And the minute he hears "it's over" then the guilt trip starts. I've been there.

So it's like the old joke about prostitutes... you're not really paying them for sex. You're paying them to go away afterwards

It's nearly the exact same thing. There are plenty of wealthy, powerful, attractive men who sometimes prefer high end call girls. Women say "Why should he pay for it? Women are probably lining up to date him!". He is paying them to go away, paying to not have to "cuddle" and lie and say, "I'll call you, we can have dinner." And he's paying for someone with a pretty look, a body type he wants, whatever. Granted, that never replaces the intense value and beauty of making love to your soul mate; but hey, sometimes you just want a ride.

Akasha

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RE: I envy male submissives - 12/26/2007 5:26:53 AM

Pinkpottiepants

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I think there are many male submissives who could be and would find being a professional very fulfilling. Perhaps the need has never been expressed and submissives like myself never realised that there would be Dommes who only want the professional relationship and are more than happy to pay for it.

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