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RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 10:23:33 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
Hold on there. that passage is borderline and this one is quite a ways across the border:
quote:

     The criminals who  terrorize our cities--in riots and on every
non-riot day--are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are.
As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white
oppression is responsible for all black ills, to "fight the power," and to
steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible. Anything is
justified against "The Man."  And "The Woman.' A lady I know recently saw a
black couple in the supermarket with a cute little girl, three years old or
so. My friend waved to the tiny child, who scowled, stuck out her tongue,
and said (somewhat tautologically): "I hate you, white honkey." And the
parents were indulgent. Is any white child taught to hate in this way? I've
never heard of it. If a white child made such a remark to a black woman,
the parents would stop it with a reprimand or a spank.


Then we get this little bit of hatred:
quote:

     Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to
pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began. The "poor"
lined up at the post office to get their handouts (since there were no
deliveries)--and then complained about slow service.  What if the checks
had never arrived?  No doubt the blacks would have fully privatized the
welfare state through continued looting.  But they were paid off and the
violence subsided.


Then there is this:
quote:

     Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among
blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5%
of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market,
individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action. I know
many who fall into this group personally and they deserve credit--not as
representatives of a racial group, but as decent people.  They are,
however, outnumbered. Of black males in Washington, D.C, between the ages
of 18 and 35, 42% are charged with a crime or are serving a sentence,
reports the National Center on Institutions and Alternatives. The Center
also reports that 70% of all black men in Washington are arrested before
they reach the age of 35, and 85% are arrested at some point in their
lives. Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal
justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males
in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.

BTW I've been arrested since I turned 18, does that make me a criminal or a semi criminal?

I'm sorry but who ever wrote this is a bigot and anyone who published and distributed this has no business being POTUS.

Actually after reading the whole thing and comparing it to the last of the scanned images I presented I am convinced both were written by the same person and I have a more than sneaking suspicion that it was Ron himself.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 10:35:10 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR:

ACORN

American Center for Voting Rights, summary of Executive Summary for 2004 Election:



A] careful review of the facts shows that in 2004, paid Democrat operatives were far more involved in voter intimidation and suppression efforts than their Republican counterparts. Examples include:


* Paid Democrat operatives charged with slashing tires of 25 Republican get-out-the-vote vans in Milwaukee on the morning of Election Day.

* Misleading telephone calls made by Democrat operatives targeting Republican voters in Ohio with the wrong date for the election and faulty polling place information.

* Intimidating and deceiving mailings and telephone calls paid for by the DNC threatening Republican volunteers in Florida with legal action.

* Union-coordinated intimidation and violence campaign targeting Republican campaign offices and volunteers resulting in a broken arm for a GOP volunteer in Florida.

Vote fraud and voter registration fraud were significant problems in at least a dozen states around the county. Vote fraud is a reality in America that occurred not only in large battleground states like Wisconsin but in places like Alabama and Kentucky. The record indicates that in 2004, voter registration fraud was mainly the work of so-called “nonpartisan” groups such as Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) and NAACP National Voter Fund. Examples include:

* Joint task force in Wisconsin found “clear evidence of fraud in the Nov. 2 election in Milwaukee,” including more than 200 felon voters, more than 100 double voters and thousands more ballots cast than voters recorded as having voted in the city.

* NAACP National Voter Fund worker in Ohio paid crack cocaine in exchange for a large number of fraudulent voter registration cards in names of Dick Tracy, Mary Poppins and other fictional characters.



Why not just agree that any type of fraud and misrepresentation that clouds the election process is a "bad thing", and it should be rooted out and stopped.

And that neither party, nor any single ideology is "clean as the driven snow"?

Firm


OMG. who wudda thought ?

* Republican state employees not 'operatives' what ever they are but state employees were involved in moving and closing polling sites in Flor. 2000...in democratic areas...not republican areas. On  the LAST day before the election or at the last moment. Many were not found or were closed when these voters traveled or showed up.

* Republican telephone callers do the same thing in their efforts to distort...and ALL over the country.

* Republican contributer, Ohio party leader AND CEO of Diebold...the company who made Ohio's election tabulating machines...said "I will do everything in my power Mr. President, to deliver Ohio for you."  EVERYTHING in his power ?

* Republicans are mass mailing all over the country...ALL OVER the COUNTRY...to pre-surveyed Democratic neighborhoods and taking everyone returned by the USPO (a bastion of accuracy) sending them to the Federal election Comm. and demanding their removal from voter polls. Legally a long way from requiring removal. In some cases then calling for the investigation and removal of various commission staff.

FACE it kinkroids...Democrats ARE corrupt...Republicans ARE corrupt. Comparing the two...Dems are rank amatures learning everyday from the Repubs...who are the real pros.

Edited to add that Ron Paul is the ONLY Republican I would consider voting for and more for his fiscal and military/foreign policies. I.e. devolve banking back to the states and dissolve the federal reserve...really cut taxes done only by cutting federal spending and follwing our founding father's advice to avoid foreign entanglements...while remaining vigilant in our discovery and pursuit of terrorists everywhere.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 1/10/2008 10:50:52 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 12:23:31 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: DomKen

Hold on there. that passage is borderline ...

Sure, ignore the points I made.

and this one is quite a ways across the border:

quote:

     The criminals who  terrorize our cities--in riots and on every
non-riot day--are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are.
As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white
oppression is responsible for all black ills, to "fight the power," and to
steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible. Anything is
justified against "The Man."  And "The Woman.' A lady I know recently saw a
black couple in the supermarket with a cute little girl, three years old or
so. My friend waved to the tiny child, who scowled, stuck out her tongue,
and said (somewhat tautologically): "I hate you, white honkey." And the
parents were indulgent. Is any white child taught to hate in this way? I've
never heard of it. If a white child made such a remark to a black woman,
the parents would stop it with a reprimand or a spank.


Alright, again, we've established that Paul didn't write this, nor did he tacitly state he agreed with the position.  Yet, you want to hold him responsible for what the man said, which you consider 'shadey.'

I knew a guy growing up who was a racist.  He'd been beat up three times in a nearby city by black gangs.  His opinions of blacks stemmed from his personal experiences.  I didn't have to agree with his position, on blacks, to understand why he felt the way he did about them.  What the majority of your quotes illustrate, is little different than what many blacks say about whites; that they have been mistreated, minimized, and they're pissed off.  Are you suggesting that whites shouldn't have the same right to voice their frustration?

Then we get this little bit of hatred:
quote:

     Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to
pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began. The "poor"
lined up at the post office to get their handouts (since there were no
deliveries)--and then complained about slow service.  What if the checks
had never arrived?  No doubt the blacks would have fully privatized the
welfare state through continued looting.  But they were paid off and the
violence subsided.


More to the point, his personal position aside, there is an urban poverty crisis in our country.  Our government isn't addressing that problem in a logical manner.  Our entitlement system has created an entire sub-culture of gambling, prostitution, and drugs through our minimization of this problem.  The author himself states:

Then there is this:
quote:

     Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among
blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5%
of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market,
individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action. I know
many who fall into this group personally and they deserve credit--not as
representatives of a racial group, but as decent people.
  They are,
however, outnumbered. Of black males in Washington, D.C, between the ages
of 18 and 35, 42% are charged with a crime or are serving a sentence,
reports the National Center on Institutions and Alternatives. The Center
also reports that 70% of all black men in Washington are arrested before
they reach the age of 35, and 85% are arrested at some point in their
lives. Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal
justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males
in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.


The point isn't that blacks are inherently evil, bad, or wrong.  The point is that the sub-culture of life in the 'hood isn't based on community, decency, and self-respect.  It's rooted in the same racial hatred that has infested our country ever since the first 'negro' was brought here on a slave ship.  There is a legal and moral crisis that has been swept under the rug, and the tag on that broom reads WELFARE.

BTW I've been arrested since I turned 18, does that make me a criminal or a semi criminal?

Technically?  Yes.  Don't worry, I am too.

I'm sorry but who ever wrote this is a bigot and anyone who published and distributed this has no business being POTUS.

The guy who wrote this stuff?  He's not the one running, remember?

Actually after reading the whole thing and comparing it to the last of the scanned images I presented I am convinced both were written by the same person and I have a more than sneaking suspicion that it was Ron himself.

I don't. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Free Market News Network  Says one source [close to the actual editorial group] “Ron Paul didn’t know about those comments, or know they were written under his name until much later when they were brought to his attention. There were several issues that went out with comments that he would not ordinarily make. He was angry when he saw them.”


The same publication:

quote:

Second, Ron Paul’s voluminous writings are freely available to anyone who wishes to look. There is not a scintilla of evidence in any of his personal writings that he has at any time placed the color of someone’s skin over talent, drive and ambition.

Finally, Ron Paul’s personal and professional associations are evidently and obviously free of the taint of racism of any sort. There are African Americans working in his campaign; the volunteer “leading the charge” for Ron Paul in Kentucky is said to be Nigerian. Perhaps Ron Paul’s closest intellectual soulmate was the Jewish, free-market economist Murray Rothbard.


Again, if you want to find reasons to hate the man, go for it.  I think the rational you're trying to use here smacks of making a mountain of a mole hill.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 12:47:09 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline
Paul said basically the same thing about the Ron Paul Dollars.  That he had no idea that NORFED was using his name and picture.  He doesn't seem to pay much attention to the use of his name and person in commercial enterprises. 

Do I think Paul is any more racist than the average Texan?  NO, I don't.  But he has over the years Flirted with them.  They support him, not because he is one of them, but is the closest to thier goals.  Same goes for his flirting with the 911 KOOK (Keepers Of Odd Knowledge), UFO, folks ect. 

My Apologies, Stephan, but the Libertarians are kind of short on reasoned folks like you, and have a lot of foks that are not so reasonable.  Paul depends on thier votes and support.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 12:48:28 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

FACE it kinkroids...Democrats ARE corrupt...Republicans ARE corrupt. Comparing the two...Dems are rank amatures learning everyday from the Repubs...who are the real pros.


*sigh*

MrRodgers, we kinda agree, but I think you missed my point.

I disagree with you when you say that Republicans are worst than Democrats.  Just as I'd disagree if you said that Democrats are worse than Republicans on this score. Nor do I think the situation is getting "worse".

I don't think you can measure, quantify and then scientifically compare the shady practices of either side, and have the balance come out on one side or the other in any realistic way.

And, overall, I'd say that elections are now probably cleaner and more fair than in just about any other time in our history.

The thing is, that based on how each ideological group understands how the world works, and what the goals and methods of the other side is, they both get lost in thinking the other side is "worse".

As an example, the current "Picture ID" case in front of the Supreme Court right now is a case of a clash of expectations, and understandings about whose ox is being gored, and what is acceptable in allowing people to vote.

I'm sure that there are times and places where Picture ID's would prevent voter fraud, just as I think there will be cases in which a lack of a Picture ID will prevent a legitimate voter from exercising their right. Which side of the fence you are on, and what your priorities are will pretty much determine which side you think is engaged in reprehensible behavior in this case.

But Republicans worst than Democratics?  Depends purely on where you stand.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 12:57:13 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
As I pointed out long before others hopped on the Ron Paul bandwagon, I found his past as an LP candidate to be most troubling.

Small 'L' libertarianism as a philosophy has some fine sounding notions.

Big 'L' libertarianism, as in the Libertarian Party, has a track record of promoting crackpots desperate to run everyone else's lives because they alone possess the Sooper Seekrit knowledge. 

And Ron Paul did allow the LP to run him as their candidate for Prez before Michael 'Woo-Woo' Badnarik and Harry Brown.

Absent any vetted evidence, I'm willing to start from a postion of giving him the benefit of the doubt on the Liberty Dollars and these mysterious newsletters, but you can't really claim that you didn't know you were running for President on the LP ticket.

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 2:23:23 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
Honestly, I'll admit that I can't vouch highly for the Libertarian Party, though I have strongly held beliefs that are in line with libertarianism.  I'm pretty unhappy with the fact that both major parties are bought and paid for by the same consortium of industry cartels who pull the political strings.  If I were, say, Viacom, I'd happily donate $500,000 to Clinton, Obama, Giuliani, and Romney, because for my two million dollars, I have ensured that regardless of who is elected, I can count on their 'support' when I need it when the FCC starts taking a close look at my activities.

I do agree, Paul attracts some wackos.  This doesn't, in my mind, mean that Paul is himself a wacko, only that his message is probably too radical to be embraced by mainstream politics.  Mainstream, by definition, means little or no deviation from the common path.  The irony, (did anyone watch John Stewart the other night?) is that every single presidential candidate is standing on the soap crying they are the agents of change, when we all know in our dark hearts that the Obamas and Clintons and Romneys and Giulianis all represent the status quo.  I hate the idea of living in a nanny state, I hate how our currency has been manipulated, I hate how we have fewer and fewer reasons to save money, because those who work hard and save their pennies are the ones punished worst in this country.  Paul represents shrinking our bloated federal government, pulling their noses out of our private affairs, sealing our borders, and pulling our troops where they belong: home.  No other candidate will do all of these things.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 2:57:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
 pulling their noses out of our private affairs


The problem for me is Paul doesn't want to get the feds out of my business. He holds an extreme anti abortion position. He doesn't support legalization of marijuana. He doesn't support getting the state out of determining which people can enter into marriage contracts. Strangely he doesn't think the feds should regulate polluters but should regulate people's private affairs.Find me a libertarian who wants to stay out of my affairs but still keep BP from poisoning Lake Michigan with refinery waste and I'll support him completely.

However this weird combination of RR wacko and tax protestor that is Ron Paul can catch the first rail out of town.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 1/10/2008 2:58:32 PM >

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 3:13:41 PM   
mcbride


Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline
Stephan, you'll have to show me some evidence of an apology, or a number of them, as each of these things appeared, along with any evidence that he did anything about it.

Speaking of seeing the evidence, have a peek at Ron Paul's Freedom Report, Ron Paul Political Report, The Ron Paul Survival Report, and The Ron Paul Investment Letter:
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=74978161-f730-43a2-91c3-de262573a129

and, posted by the National Review, by a reader yesterday:
quote:

no amount of messenger-attacking can diminish what he's unearthed in Ron Paul's old newsletters. He did well to dig it up, it's good reporting. And it is like a gut-punch to read the racist material they contained within the timeframe of 1988-1992...this story is for real. It is not an adequate response to shoot the messenger


No kiddin'.


(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 3:40:32 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
Wow! thanks for the link mcbride.

This lnk
http://www.tnr.com/downloads/June1990.pdf
is extremely vile in its hatred of homosexuals and either written by Paul or by someone pretending to be Ron Paul. In three paragraphs the author gives medical advice once and expresses a medical opinion once.

So 3 possibilities exist:
1) Paul wrote this and his political career should end.
2) Someone wrote this with the clear understanding that it was to be prsented as Paul's writing. Making Ron Paul just as responsible as in option 1.
3) Some other extreme social conservative MD or pretender was writing first person articles for Ron Paul's newsletters and no one made any effort to seperate out who wrote what. Which seems to me to be a pretty clear endorsement of the entire contents by Paul. See option  1 for repercussion.

BTW I'm right now willing to bet that the two damning sections, the "gold eagle" award stuff, the LA riots article, that I read earlier as well as this disgusting bit of bile are all written by the same person and serious textual analysis will confirm that.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 1/10/2008 3:46:23 PM >

(in reply to mcbride)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 3:58:06 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: DomKen

The problem for me is Paul doesn't want to get the feds out of my business. He holds an extreme anti abortion position. He doesn't support legalization of marijuana. He doesn't support getting the state out of determining which people can enter into marriage contracts. Strangely he doesn't think the feds should regulate polluters but should regulate people's private affairs.Find me a libertarian who wants to stay out of my affairs but still keep BP from poisoning Lake Michigan with refinery waste and I'll support him completely.

However this weird combination of RR wacko and tax protestor that is Ron Paul can catch the first rail out of town.

I'm afraid you're incorrect in each of your assumptions.  The short answer, is he doesn't believe that the Federal Government should be elbow deep in any of these issues, that these should be state issues.  Line by line, though:

On abortion, he's pro-life.  However, he doesn't advocate bans on abortion at the Federal level, because he's a strict Constitutionalist.

quote:

ORIGINAL:  Ron Paul nder the 9th and 10th amendments, all authority over matters not specifically addressed in the Constitution remains with state legislatures. Therefore the federal government has no authority whatsoever to involve itself in the abortion issue. So while Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across all 50 states would be equally invalid.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul301.html


As President, he'd likely veto a bill banning abortion, because it's not in keeping with his principals.

Ron Paul not only supports legalization of Marijuana, he authored the State's Rights to Medical Marjiana Act, as well as supported HR 3037 to legalize hemp; again, because he feels that it should be up to individual states, and individual citizens to decide how drugs should be addressed.

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Drugs.htm

He was the only Texan representative to vote against the Federal Marriage Amendment (intended to prevent gay marriages from being legalized.)

New York Times

Finally, his opposition to Federal environmental action doesn't stem from lack of concern for the environment; rather, like everything else, he believes these are issues best handled at the state level.

Read for yourself:

http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/10/16/paul/

The gist of this interview, says that he believes that individuals should be held accountable for what they do on their own land; that if you are polluting the air in your factory, and I can smell it, you've broken the law.  Either way, the EPA and governments in general simply don't do a good job taking care of the environment to begin with.  By enforcing laws locally, with harsher (and more financially crippling) fines, there'll be a great deal more incentive for local municipalities to crack down on polluters.

Again, unconventional, but compared to the system we currently have where large scale polluters simply buy lobbyists to shield them, I think it's got just as good of a chance as any to work.

mcbride,

Why should I bother?  You already made your mind up.  I've offered post after post of solid evidence of his opinions to the contrary; you can either choose to believe words from the man's mouth, or buy into whatever slander you think is more tittilating.

quote:

ORINGINAL: Ron Paul

Q: If you are elected president in 2008, what positive and significant legacy, if any, will you leave for Black Americans?A: I would like to believe that if we had a freer society, it would take care of Blacks and whites and everybody equally because we're all individuals. To me, that is so important. But if we had equal justice under the law, I think it would be a big improvement. If we had probably a repeal of most of the federal laws on drugs and the unfairness on how Blacks are treated with these drugs laws, it would be a tremendous improvement. And also, I think that if you're going to have prosperity, it serves everybody. And if this is done by emphasizing property rights and freedom of the individuals, making sure that the powerful special interests don't control Washington, that the military industrial complex doesn't suck away all the wealth of the country, and then we would have prosperity.

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Drugs.htm

Stephan



_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 4:22:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
Bullshit

Paul is the "author" and sponsor of the Sanctity of Life act which would make it federal law that life begins at conception and requires each state to protect the lives of unborn fetuses in their jurisdiction. That isn't devolving something to teh state that is a federal mandate shoved down the states throat.

In this audio interview
http://www.dennismillerradio.com/pg/jsp/charts/streamingAudioMaster.jsp;jsessionid=5AB880AD34E2A8C96307474FCB08ED9D?dispid=301&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD0xMjY5JnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0c3RyZWFtaW5nJmNoYXJ0SUQ9MzAxJnBsYXlsaXN0U2l6ZT0zMA==
Paul defers to private property rights over government regulation of polluters. Which is so incredibly naive as to be laughable. BTW since the great lakes border a large number of states and Canada how woul property owners along its borders enforce the property rights? How could they even identify the proximate cause of the pollution well enough to satisfy a judge? Wouldn't BP etc. just throw an army of lawyers at any lawsuit and delay it until the plaintiffs died? Stupidest idea I've heard in a long time.

I will say dumping marijuana down to the states is a clever way to guarantee it will stay illegal without pissing off his supporters. He could simply support any of the bills that comes along that would ammend the Controlled Substances Act to remove both hemp and marijuana from the list. It is part of interstate trade and interstate trade regulation is specifically the feds bailiwick so he can't even be consistent in his lies on why he votes no on various issues.

A liar and at the very least a supporter of bigots. Simply put he is not fit to be POTUS and should probably resign from the house until he has actually learned what the Constitution says the federal government is responsible for.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 4:24:05 PM   
deadbluebird


Posts: 265
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The problem for me is Paul doesn't want to get the feds out of my business. He holds an extreme anti abortion position. He doesn't support legalization of marijuana. He doesn't support getting the state out of determining which people can enter into marriage contracts. Strangely he doesn't think the feds should regulate polluters but should regulate people's private affairs.Find me a libertarian who wants to stay out of my affairs but still keep BP from poisoning Lake Michigan with refinery waste and I'll support him completely.

However this weird combination of RR wacko and tax protestor that is Ron Paul can catch the first rail out of town.

I'm afraid you're incorrect in each of your assumptions.  The short answer, is he doesn't believe that the Federal Government should be elbow deep in any of these issues, that these should be state issues.  Line by line, though:

On abortion, he's pro-life.  However, he doesn't advocate bans on abortion at the Federal level, because he's a strict Constitutionalist.

quote:

ORIGINAL:  Ron Paul nder the 9th and 10th amendments, all authority over matters not specifically addressed in the Constitution remains with state legislatures. Therefore the federal government has no authority whatsoever to involve itself in the abortion issue. So while Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across all 50 states would be equally invalid.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul301.html


As President, he'd likely veto a bill banning abortion, because it's not in keeping with his principals.

Ron Paul not only supports legalization of Marijuana, he authored the State's Rights to Medical Marjiana Act, as well as supported HR 3037 to legalize hemp; again, because he feels that it should be up to individual states, and individual citizens to decide how drugs should be addressed.

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Drugs.htm

He was the only Texan representative to vote against the Federal Marriage Amendment (intended to prevent gay marriages from being legalized.)

New York Times

Finally, his opposition to Federal environmental action doesn't stem from lack of concern for the environment; rather, like everything else, he believes these are issues best handled at the state level.

Read for yourself:

http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/10/16/paul/

The gist of this interview, says that he believes that individuals should be held accountable for what they do on their own land; that if you are polluting the air in your factory, and I can smell it, you've broken the law.  Either way, the EPA and governments in general simply don't do a good job taking care of the environment to begin with.  By enforcing laws locally, with harsher (and more financially crippling) fines, there'll be a great deal more incentive for local municipalities to crack down on polluters.

Again, unconventional, but compared to the system we currently have where large scale polluters simply buy lobbyists to shield them, I think it's got just as good of a chance as any to work.

mcbride,

Why should I bother?  You already made your mind up.  I've offered post after post of solid evidence of his opinions to the contrary; you can either choose to believe words from the man's mouth, or buy into whatever slander you think is more tittilating.

quote:

ORINGINAL: Ron Paul

Q: If you are elected president in 2008, what positive and significant legacy, if any, will you leave for Black Americans?A: I would like to believe that if we had a freer society, it would take care of Blacks and whites and everybody equally because we're all individuals. To me, that is so important. But if we had equal justice under the law, I think it would be a big improvement. If we had probably a repeal of most of the federal laws on drugs and the unfairness on how Blacks are treated with these drugs laws, it would be a tremendous improvement. And also, I think that if you're going to have prosperity, it serves everybody. And if this is done by emphasizing property rights and freedom of the individuals, making sure that the powerful special interests don't control Washington, that the military industrial complex doesn't suck away all the wealth of the country, and then we would have prosperity.

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Drugs.htm

Stephan





You beat me to responding Stephann!
I wonder DomKen, where is it you heard all these lies about Ron Paul?


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RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 4:24:58 PM   
Sanity


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The idea that someone else wrote the Ron Paul newsletters seems absurd to me. Completely absurd. I f I were going to put out a newsletter I wouldn't call it the farglebargle newsletter, or the FirmHandKY newsletter., I'd call it the Sanity newsletter. Why would someone name it after him if he wasn't at all connected?  What would you call your news letter, if you printed one. And they went on for so long...

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RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 6:33:19 PM   
mcbride


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Joined: 1/14/2005
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quote:

Why should I bother? You already made your mind up. I've offered post after post of solid evidence of his opinions to the contrary; you can either choose to believe words from the man's mouth, or buy into whatever slander you think is more tittilating.


Well, Stephan, for two reasons. One is...if indeed you had evidence of his doing anything to mitigate the damage when these things were published, you'd want to post it for the undecideds.

Secondly, I tend to go with evidence, which is present in the latter, not the former.  That's why i linked to the actual newsletters.

DomKen, thanks. It's nice to find some outlets are still going back and digging in the archives, in a swiftboat/Fox age, isn't it?

(in reply to Stephann)
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RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 6:36:54 PM   
DomKen


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What I'm amazed by is after presenting evidence both on the newsletters and on his well documented extreme social positions people are calling me a liar.

Ron Paul is a cryptofascist not a libertarian.

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RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 7:53:26 PM   
FirmhandKY


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FR:

Just finished the Republican debates. Paid close attention to Ron Paul.

I like him. 

He's definitely got some (several) screws loose.

Even worse ... he's a whiny little bitch.

Firm


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RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/10/2008 8:18:08 PM   
DomKen


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More is revealed during my search for the newsletters.

Ron Paul is a religious extremist who is disconnected from reality:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zz94-OrnXzE


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RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/11/2008 8:24:03 AM   
Stephann


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From: Portland, OR
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ORIGINAL: DomKen

Bullshit

Paul is the "author" and sponsor of the Sanctity of Life act which would make it federal law that life begins at conception and requires each state to protect the lives of unborn fetuses in their jurisdiction. That isn't devolving something to teh state that is a federal mandate shoved down the states throat.

Actually, this would provide the legal basis for states to challenge Roe vs Wade, so they can choose to ban abortion if they wish.  Currently, no state is 'allowed' to ban abortion.  HR 4379 would have done the same.  Otherwise, why would such a 'staunch' anti-abortion foe vote against minors being barred from travelling to other states to seek abortions?  http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll144.xml

In this audio interview

Paul defers to private property rights over government regulation of polluters. Which is so incredibly naive as to be laughable. BTW since the great lakes border a large number of states and Canada how woul property owners along its borders enforce the property rights? How could they even identify the proximate cause of the pollution well enough to satisfy a judge? Wouldn't BP etc. just throw an army of lawyers at any lawsuit and delay it until the plaintiffs died? Stupidest idea I've heard in a long time.

At the time of my posting, the audio clip you reference doesn't work.  I might give it a try later on.  The idea that 'BP will just throw lawyers at the system' doesn't hold water though; these wouldn't be just civil charges, they'd be criminal charges.  With fines in the millions or billions, the State would certainly have a vested, financial interest in aggressively pursuing pollutors.

I will say dumping marijuana down to the states is a clever way to guarantee it will stay illegal without pissing off his supporters. He could simply support any of the bills that comes along that would ammend the Controlled Substances Act to remove both hemp and marijuana from the list. It is part of interstate trade and interstate trade regulation is specifically the feds bailiwick so he can't even be consistent in his lies on why he votes no on various issues.

You obviously didn't read any of the links I posted. 

A liar and at the very least a supporter of bigots. Simply put he is not fit to be POTUS and should probably resign from the house until he has actually learned what the Constitution says the federal government is responsible for.

You've obviously made your mind up, and that's your perogative, but do focus on evidence and not rhetoric.

Stephan


< Message edited by Stephann -- 1/11/2008 8:26:02 AM >


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RE: Ron Paul...not so cuddly? - 1/11/2008 11:23:19 AM   
DomKen


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I'm goddamn tired of being called a liar.

Here is the text of the 2005 Sanctity of Life act (HR 776) as written by Paul or his staff:
*see below please.
The pertinent section defining human life is
quote:


SEC. 2. FINDING AND DECLARATION.
    (a) Finding- The Congress finds that present day scientific evidence indicates a significant likelihood that actual human life exists from conception.

    (b) Declaration- Upon the basis of this finding, and in the exercise of the powers of the Congress--

      (1) the Congress declares that--

        (A) human life shall be deemed to exist from conception, without regard to race, sex, age, health, defect, or condition of dependency; and

        (B) the term `person' shall include all human life as defined in subparagraph (A); and

      (2) the Congress recognizes that each State has the authority to protect lives of unborn children residing in the jurisdiction of that State.



          Notice very carefully paragraph 1 subparagraph A and B. That makes every fertilized egg a fully legal person. That doesn't give the states any choice or allow them to change the definition to allow abrtion if they choose. Paragraph 2 is just BS designed to hide the fact that this legislation instantly make abortion first degree murder.The act then goes onto to attempt to extra constitutionally restrict federal district and appelate review of this acts consequences. For someone who claims to be a strict constructionist this passage:

          quote:


          SEC. 3. LIMITATION ON APPELLATE JURISDICTION.
            (a) In General- Chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:


          `Sec. 1260. Appellate jurisdiction; limitation
            `Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 1253, 1254, and 1257, the Supreme Court shall not have jurisdiction to review, by appeal, writ of certiorari, or otherwise, any case arising out of any statute, ordinance, rule, regulation, practice, or any part thereof, or arising out of any act interpreting, applying, enforcing, or effecting any statute, ordinance, rule, regulation, or practice, on the grounds that such statute, ordinance, rule, regulation, practice, act, or part thereof--

              `(1) protects the rights of human persons between conception and birth; or

              `(2) prohibits, limits, or regulates--

                `(A) the performance of abortions; or

                `(B) the provision of public expense of funds, facilities, personnel, or other assistance for the performance of abortions.'.

            (b) Conforming Amendment- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 81 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

              `1260. Appellate jurisdiction; limitation.'.


                Is in direct conflict with Article III section 2 of the U.S. Constitution and a clear attempt by a legislator to evade the judicial branch's check on legislative power which isn't just bad law but verges on sedition.

                Don't try and explain this crap away because 2 years later he resubmitted the same act without a single substantive change:

                *see below again


                  *NOTE: Something is wonky about the boards handling osf the links I'm trying to include. This wiki page has links to both versions of the act at



            < Message edited by DomKen -- 1/11/2008 11:26:28 AM >

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