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Confused - 1/11/2008 9:10:51 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		i'm a little bit confused here about a few things, and why i'm going to bring it up here should just reinforce to some of You exactly how out there i truly am.......At what point exactly is consent given? i mean if a slave (or a sub) is talking to someone online and then goes to their house, does that equal consent? i mean does the fact that they went to the person's house mean that they've then consented for any and all activities to occur? At what point can a slave (or sub) pull back her consent?
* i have no idea if i'm making any sense here or not, and should no doubt be trying to sleep*


_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 9:13:46 PM   
tinoketsheli


Posts: 50
Joined: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		I think consent is given the moment a the individual picks a safe word with a Dom/me if not sooner

For me I met my Dom in person several times before we began playing. And consent was given during that trust building time.

(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 9:15:51 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

At what point can a slave (or sub) pull back her consent?


Any time they like.  The only justifiable excuse for not stopping if anyone wants you to stop is a misunderstanding (as in resistance play and a safeword was not used/forgotten/not understood/etc).  Any other time, consent is never implied and must always be given.

When in doubt, ask twice.

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 9:17:09 PM   
subnstudent


Posts: 105
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		Consent is only consent when you both agree to it. A person can take his or her consent back anytime they want to.

In terms of going over to someone's house, the parties involved need to discuss what's within each other's limits and what's not. It's only consent when you're continuously agreeing to it; in your mind you can admit to yourself that, "Yes, I do want this." As soon as that thought becomes anything else, it's not really consent anymore.

Just my $.02

*dons obligatory +2 Sign of Opinionage and Fire Resistance*

(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 9:17:44 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		what he said.
Kyst

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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 9:18:53 PM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		You make perfect sense.  In the first few contacts on here and then in E-mail we were vanilla. When we talked on the phone. The first time i answered him yes sir, i felt as though i was giving consent right then and there. He still proceeded slowly and asked me several times in the following weeks if i was sure and that i had no doubt. i answered that i was and that i didn't have any doubts and the rest was history.

_____________________________

i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 9:23:31 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

At what point exactly is consent given?


When you intend for it to be given, not on someone else's timetable.

quote:


i mean if a slave (or a sub) is talking to someone online and then goes to their house, does that equal consent?


If that's what they want it to mean, then that's what it means.  If it's not what they intend for it to mean, then it doesn't.  But people cannot be mind readers, and in order for them to know what you intend for it to mean, they must rely upon you to say so in a clear and unambiguous fashion. 

quote:


i mean does the fact that they went to the person's house mean that they've then consented for any and all activities to occur?


I think the only folks that would engage in that sort of thought process are those that have reason to fear prosecution for nonconensual activity (or those who have already been convicted).
 
quote:


At what point can a slave (or sub) pull back her consent?


Any time he or she chooses. 
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 9:25:34 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Consent is given when it is actually discussed.  A dominant has (in my opinion) as much of a responsability to make sure the sub or slave is OK with something in the initial stages when communication is being worked on, as the sub or slave does in offering up their OK for certain activities. Especially when dealing with a newcomer, you have to make sure the lines of communicaton are open at all times. And someone can stop consenting. You cant turn back time and un-consent the past activities, but you can not consent to those same activities again if they are not something you wish to do. Every session, every meeting... consent is given by both parties. After a while, consent is implied, and understood. But even in a long term, commited relationship, if consent isnt given, it is the persons right to say so.

My 2 cents

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 10:03:12 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

i'm a little bit confused here about a few things, and why i'm going to bring it up here should just reinforce to some of You exactly how out there i truly am.......At what point exactly is consent given? i mean if a slave (or a sub) is talking to someone online and then goes to their house, does that equal consent? i mean does the fact that they went to the person's house mean that they've then consented for any and all activities to occur? At what point can a slave (or sub) pull back her consent?
* i have no idea if i'm making any sense here or not, and should no doubt be trying to sleep*


IMO going to a persons house does not equal consent. It just means that you are going to visit him. However, if it is agreed before you go that there would be play during your visit, and you change your mind once you get there, you are not required to keep that agreement simply because you said yes online. Things change. People change. You may get there and discover that he is nothing like you thought he would be and you don't want to do anything but have a nice visit. But he is not a mind-reader and you must make it clear that although the offer is nice, you would prefer not to do anything physical at this time. If he pushes you further or forces himself upon you, to the point of intercourse, it is called rape. It doesn't matter if his dick is hanging out his pants and you are half naked. If you want to stop, you should be able to say no at any time. This is where communication is very important. While talking online, make no promises, make no demands. Just set a date to meet and if it feels good to do anything other than meet, then have fun :)
And remember, a safe call should be in place for you.

_____________________________





(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 10:28:18 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

At what point can a slave (or sub) pull back her consent?


Any time they like.  The only justifiable excuse for not stopping if anyone wants you to stop is a misunderstanding (as in resistance play and a safeword was not used/forgotten/not understood/etc).  Any other time, consent is never implied and must always be given.

When in doubt, ask twice.

Taggard

Good clear concise answer....Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

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RE: Confused - 1/11/2008 10:57:27 PM   
exogenous


Posts: 57
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

IMO going to a persons house does not equal consent. It just means that you are going to visit him. However, if it is agreed before you go that there would be play during your visit, and you change your mind once you get there, you are not required to keep that agreement simply because you said yes online. Things change. People change. You may get there and discover that he is nothing like you thought he would be and you don't want to do anything but have a nice visit. But he is not a mind-reader and you must make it clear that although the offer is nice, you would prefer not to do anything physical at this time. If he pushes you further or forces himself upon you, to the point of intercourse, it is called rape. It doesn't matter if his dick is hanging out his pants and you are half naked. If you want to stop, you should be able to say no at any time. This is where communication is very important. While talking online, make no promises, make no demands. Just set a date to meet and if it feels good to do anything other than meet, then have fun :)
And remember, a safe call should be in place for you.


I agree with this, visiting someone in their home absolutely does not equal consent. Although, it does seems that many folks do equate going to someone's home or bringing someone to your own home as an invatiation to progress beyond your personal expectations or desires.

I will not go to someone's home or invite him to mine, until I am ready for the possibility of that next, emotional and/or physical "step". At that time, if nothing happens, that's fine, if things do happen, that's fine, too.

I prefer to date and enjoy extracurricular activities and get to know someone for a while (as in, establishing a trust and compatibility factor) before heading to "home territory", his or mine.

(in reply to MistressOfGa)
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RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 1:00:10 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

i'm a little bit confused here about a few things, and why i'm going to bring it up here should just reinforce to some of You exactly how out there i truly am.......At what point exactly is consent given? i mean if a slave (or a sub) is talking to someone online and then goes to their house, does that equal consent? i mean does the fact that they went to the person's house mean that they've then consented for any and all activities to occur? At what point can a slave (or sub) pull back her consent?
* i have no idea if i'm making any sense here or not, and should no doubt be trying to sleep*



This isn't really a BDSM or lifestyle question in my opinion, since it is one that plagues my 'nilla friends as well.

If I  go over to a dominant's house than I have not consented to any and all activities. It means I've gone over to the house, maybe to do something as boring as watch a movie.

I think one can withdraw consent at any time. It simply has varying consequences depending on the dominant in question. For us, not being able to withdraw the consent would make the consent meaningless and similiar to someone who doesn't actually want to be in a d/s relationship but just doesn't have a choice.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 3:13:31 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

i'm a little bit confused here about a few things, and why i'm going to bring it up here should just reinforce to some of You exactly how out there i truly am.......At what point exactly is consent given?


At the point they say "Yes"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

At what point can a slave (or sub) pull back her consent?


At the point she says "No"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
i mean if a slave (or a sub) is talking to someone online and then goes to their house, does that equal consent? i mean does the fact that they went to the person's house mean that they've then consented for any and all activities to occur?


If i get invited to a friends house to play poker and i agree but then i get there and everyone is drinking beer and smoking cigars at the table, would the host pour a beer down my throat, shove a cigar in my mouth and force me to deal? 

Another example of why clear, detailed communication is so important.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 4:12:28 AM   
takenbyjohnr07


Posts: 787
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		i don't know if it's looked at the same way now, but in the olden days if you went to a man's house to see his etchings  It was automatically assumed that you knewwhat you were there for.

_____________________________

i am the sole property of Johnr. He is the love of my life and the greatest Owner and i will live to serve and, please him only every day of my life.

(in reply to eyesopened)
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RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 4:13:31 AM   
MasterHX


Posts: 15
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		Speaking only from my own point of view:

Whether formal or assumed, I rarely enter into play unless I'm sure that the consent is there.  In either case, the sub/slave can recind her consent at any time during play.

Now, there are those who will say that if she's your slave, she has no further right to refuse your requests or demands.  In a perfect world that would be true, but then... in a perfect world, a slave would only give herself to someone who understood her limits and respected them, so the concept of refusal would be a moot point.

MasterHX

(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 4:39:36 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

i don't know if it's looked at the same way now, but in the olden days if you went to a man's house to see his etchings  It was automatically assumed that you knewwhat you were there for.

What olden days are you talking about? Maybe in your life, you automatically assumed you were there to see more than the mans etchings. I am only a year or two older than you are, and I never had that assumption. If a man asked me to come up to his apartment for a cup of coffee after a date, it was not automatically understood that I was to have sex with him. Sometimes coffee is just coffee.

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RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 5:04:54 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		Quick reply:

I believe I consented the moment he explained what his relatonship with me would look like, what the terms would be etc and I decided to get involved.


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to MistressOfGa)
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RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 5:49:25 AM   
cherrypez


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

i'm a little bit confused here about a few things, and why i'm going to bring it up here should just reinforce to some of You exactly how out there i truly am.......At what point exactly is consent given? i mean if a slave (or a sub) is talking to someone online and then goes to their house, does that equal consent? i mean does the fact that they went to the person's house mean that they've then consented for any and all activities to occur? At what point can a slave (or sub) pull back her consent?
* i have no idea if i'm making any sense here or not, and should no doubt be trying to sleep*

I would say no.    If I talked to someone online and then went to visit him at his house the only consent at that point I had given was a meeting, it would not give him permission for anything else unless we discussed it.    If just setting up a meeting were given consent to all then it would be 'alright' for him to sodomize you with a broom handle?  
   After 5 years, I still give consent for certain things.   I can't see consent as a blanket term for every activity that is going to occur in the relationship or for even the vanilla things that happen.   He still asks consent to get something out of my purse.    It's a respect thing.  

(in reply to Kalista07)
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RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 6:11:48 AM   
cherrypez


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

ORIGINAL: takenbyjohnr07

i don't know if it's looked at the same way now, but in the olden days if you went to a man's house to see his etchings  It was automatically assumed that you knewwhat you were there for.

What olden days are you talking about? Maybe in your life, you automatically assumed you were there to see more than the mans etchings. I am only a year or two older than you are, and I never had that assumption. If a man asked me to come up to his apartment for a cup of coffee after a date, it was not automatically understood that I was to have sex with him. Sometimes coffee is just coffee.
I second that MistressofGa.   Having a person of the opposite sex into your home is not an assumed consent to have sex.   Even when I began dating it was not applied consent for anything for me I suppose the 'olden days' would be the 80's.   If this were the case, I'd be in some big trouble.   Even though I am attached I have male friends who come visit.   My former Dom and I are still very dear friends and he does visit and we simply hang out, watch a movie break bread together.   My high school sweetheart is a very dear friend of mine still, and he married but we still occasionaly get together and have dinner and rehash old times.    I can see that their visits to my home or mine to theirs is applied consent for anything.     I further can not understand the concept of giving any sort of consent to someone you have spoken to online or on the phone without first meeting them.   I did meet my Master online.   There was no consent for anything given other than a meeting.   
I get awful thoughts going through my brain of consenting online and carrying it through.    Sub meets Dom online, they exchange emails, they have phone conversation, she says Sir consent given, she goes to his house, and he hasn't had a bath in six weeks because he has been on the net desperately trying to get that consent from ONE submissive.    But because she gave that consent she gives him a blow job anyways???? 

(in reply to MistressOfGa)
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RE: Confused - 1/12/2008 12:50:12 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		i want to thank You all for Your responses.

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to cherrypez)
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