A short rant (Full Version)

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DiurnalVampire -> A short rant (1/14/2008 11:12:18 AM)

Inspired by the desire to rip the head off a real life friend...
It takes more than just being a big to be a big beautiful woman!
Just like being skinny doesnt automaticaly make you attractive, neither does being big and giving yourself a title.
I think, after this conversation today with a very egotistical reallife friend, I finally understand why some people don't take BBW as seriously as they should.
There are some truly and incredibly gorgeous BBW out there. Those who are self confident, happy wth themselves, who take care of themselves and make an effort to look good ALL the time. Ther are those who dont even NEED to make an effort, they are just stunning.
And, like my friend I spoke to today, there are women who let themselves go, and decide to give themselves the BBW title becaue they are now big. They dont bleieve it, they dont make any effort to keep themselves up or to look good and they think that by calling themsleves BBW it makes everything OK. I find that insulting! I tried to explain to her how I felt, and she told me that since I was NOT a big girl, I had no right to have an opinion on the subject. I disagree.
It takes more than a title to make someone beautiful. It takes a look, a personality, a confidence in yourself and a happiness with who you are. I dont give a damn if you are male or female, big or small, tall or short. If you dont have what it takes to be beautiful... you wont be. I am not talking about ebing a swimsuit model, I certainly never will be and I dont care. I think I look good, I am hapy with how I look and I am confident in myself. If someone considers that beautiful then I am flattered, of someone doesnt then I advise them to look elsewhere. But ust like someone calling themselves a Dominant and then expecting everyone to agree ot getting upset when they dont... calling yourself beautiful doesnt ust work by default. Those who feel the need to proclaim it to anyone who will listen probably dont think they are and are digging for the compliments to boslter their confidence.

Frusteration wins out, my friend and I had a short shouting match and she stormed off. According to her, I am a small mided woman who thinks just because I take care of myself and lost weight that she is ugly now. I dont think she is ugly at all. I do think that the fact that since she has not put any effort into wearing anything that fits properly, wearsn nothign but sweatsuits (some with stains she ignores even if we are in public), hasnt done a thing with her hair aside from pull it into a tight pony tail and doesnt seem to be bating regurlarly makes her unattractive. If she put even a quarter of the effort into presenting herself now that she used to, shed be drop dead gorgeous. But she refuses to do anything now, which I think is a bout of depression. She says she doesnt HAVE to. She said there are men out there that LIKE women like that (which I find difficult to believe someone would not want their partner to at the very least keep up with their personal hygiene and take some interest in how they look) and she is a BBW and if I dont like it I can kiss off.

Am I wrong to try and convince her to try and take a bit more pride in how she looks?  Am I being a bad friend by telling her that the title alone doesnt make her appealing?

Please, dont flame me for this, I am looking for real opinions.  This is not a fat vs skinny thread, this isnt a BBW is wrong thread. This is a thread to ask if, no matter who it is, does suggesting to a friend that they have to take pride in how they look make you a bad person. It bothers me she is looking at the term BBW as a defult fallback that allows her to slack in the personal hygiene department.

*sighs*
DV

I am off to work, I am going to have to wait until I get home to see how badly this explodes. I am hoping for the best.




juliaoceania -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 11:23:23 AM)

quote:

Am I wrong to try and convince her to try and take a bit more pride in how she looks? Am I being a bad friend by telling her that the title alone doesnt make her appealing?


I think she sounds very depressed, and that is the real issue here. Perhaps it would be best to forget how what is happening on the outside, and concentrate on what is going on inside and her depression. Walking around in dirty stained clothing, taking no interest in one's appearance, especially if the person USED to take an interest, are signs of depression. Your friend needs help, not the kind found in a makeover magazine. Her wieght might be part of her depression Being out of shape and overweight can cause depression... (it did for me).





FullCircle -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 11:30:25 AM)

Sad as it is sometimes people have to come to their own realisations about these things. The only real measure is if she is happy or not and if she isn’t she’ll need you then. You can try to convince her but if she isn’t willing to see you as objective then there isn’t a great deal you can do about it.



kdsub -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 11:39:17 AM)

I know you mean well… and I am not one to give advice to others…but…shouting and berating her may make the problem worse.

She could very well be depressed about the very things you are pointing out… in the wrong way.

I’d back off…assure her you are her friend and are just worried about her. Spend more time with her as a non-judgmental friend. Try and get her to go out …maybe to a movie or dinner. Who knows she may open up to you about her life and problems…without confrontation.

Maybe convince her to get a new hairstyle… make a day of it go together get one yourself… make it fun… give her a reason to be happy again. Do the same for a new outfit….

Damn I sound like a girl!!
Butch



RCdc -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 11:39:37 AM)

It doesn't make you a bad person, unless you are trying to change someone to something they aren't.  And we have no idea what this friend looks like or how she is - only one POV.  So I would therefore suggest that beautiful is purely subjective.
You either find out if she does have depression and assist her, or end the friendship.  There is a fine line between controlling how someone wants to be and being a friend.  She may be happy with stains and if it makes you uncomfortable, then do not hang around with her - do what is best for you.  If she is depressed then stick by her.  You cannot make someone do anything, but you simply do not have to support it.
 
the.dark.



charmdpetKeira -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 11:51:41 AM)

quote:

Am I wrong to try and convince her to try and take a bit more pride in how she looks?


This part is a bit tricky for me, suggesting is one thing, trying to convince someone of something is another. People generally do not try to change things they do not believe are wrong.

quote:

Am I being a bad friend by telling her that the title alone doesnt make her appealing?


I think it is a factual statement, and a good friend would point out the facts, regardless of how the person feels about it; though there is something to say for finesse.

I have a friend at work, whom I take break with whenever we are both there. I notice things about her life, as she does mine, and will point things out to her on occasion. She usually responds with some sort of explanation as to why things are the way they are. While she is explaining, she will realize what she is saying is exactly what I was talking about. Those conversations usually end with her saying “Fuck off k, you’re a bitch”. I say “I know” and we both laugh.

I can only guess why your friend responded the way she did, but it would seem she is trying to convince herself, of what she appears to be trying to convince you of. Your not buying it makes it hard for her to believe.

In other words, there is a good chance she is afraid there is some truth in her perception, of your perception, of her. Sometimes the truth hurts, and it is easier to blame those who point it out, then to look at why it hurts and do something about it.

k



subfever -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 12:54:34 PM)

That was short? 



charmdpetKeira -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 12:58:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

That was short? 


Lol, depends on what you are comparing it to. As far as rants go, I've seen much longer.
 
k



Sabella -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 1:10:42 PM)

I agree, sounds like depression to me. It sounds braver saying "I don't care!" then than admitting there may be another problem she isn't ready to talk about.



rubberpet -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 1:14:44 PM)

DV, I don't think there is anything wrong with you trying to convince your friend to take better care of her appearance.  A lot of women who put on weight think that no matter how they look, people won't see past the weight.  There are a lot of gorgeous plus-sized women out there and my beautiful Mistress is one of them.  To me, She is a natural stunner.  With very little to no make up, She has this cute and adorable, innocent young girl look about Her.  When She gets gothed out, She is the sex goddess of my fantasies and nightmares! *wipes drool from mouth, just thinking about it*[:D]  Even though She is plus-sized, She still takes pride in Her appearance.  I encourage Her to express Herself and Her individuality, but if Her grooming habits and hygiene start wavering, I'd definitely tell Her something about it.  While She doesn't have to dress to the nines all the time, I don't want the hair on Her lip and legs to be longer than mine.  Sorry, but I draw the line there!  [:D]



fairerthanshe -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 1:18:40 PM)

Greetings DV,

It sounds to me like you care a great deal about her and are willing to confront her on something that is potentially dangerous for her.  If she has long term depression and is doing nothing about it, perhaps your frank conversation will give her the wake up call she needs to make some changes and get some help.

Sounds like a very difficult situation which caused a lot of stress on both sides, ultimately we can tell our friends what they want to hear or we can tell them the truth as we see it.  You made the call to tell the truth from your perspective and hopefully it will get through to her.

well wishes ~ fairer than she



A159753 -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 2:02:41 PM)

I agree with your view, but there is a big difference in voicing your opinion, and trying to change someone, changing other people, in my opinion, is not our job

my .02



slaveboyforyou -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 2:04:09 PM)

Honestly, I don't understand this necessity some people feel to refer to themselves or anyone as a "BBW."  I just don't see the big deal about calling someone or yourself "fat."  It's not a bad word, and it's honest.  I get a little sick of these people that try to cover up their insecurities by overcompensation.  A lot of men find big gals attractive, but very few find anything alluring about arrogance and pretentiousness. 

As for your question, I do think you were wrong to a degree.  I don't know why you feel qualified to determine if she is depressed or not.  Honestly some people are just fat slobs, and they don't care what others may think.  I find those people as disgusting as you do, but I don't feel the need to point it out to them.  It's none of my business.  I don't generally reference the Bible, but.....Remove the plank in your own eye before pointing out the splinter in another's. 



CalifChick -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 2:17:14 PM)

FR ~~~

Finding a label and hiding behind it, or using it as an excuse, seems to be quite a bit more popular than it used to be. 

My kids are unruly demons? Oh no, they have ADD, they can't help it.  And it is not my lackadaisical parenting style either.

Don't want to read the directions? Oh no, it's not that, it's that I have dyslexia.

I stink? Oh, no, it's that I'm allergic to chemicals, I'm using an all-natural deodorant.

I got fired because I was late every day for two weeks?  Oh no, it's not that, it was because I'm <insert ethnic group here>.

So maybe she is hiding behind the label.  And maybe she has been in a funk about her appearance all her life and now she feels that she is accepted because there is a label for it that has the word "beautiful" in it.  And maybe she is depressed.

Personally, I cannot think of anyone that I know that hides behind a label, or has hidden behind a label, that accepts that the label is a crutch. 

Oh, and by the way, this is no slam to anyone who really has ADD diagnosed by valid medical processes, or dyslexia (tested), or anything like that. 

Cali



charmdpetKeira -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 2:23:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Oh, and by the way, this is no slam to anyone who really has ADD diagnosed by valid medical processes, or dyslexia (tested), or anything like that. 

Cali



Perhaps it would have been better to go with "learning disabled".
 
k



SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 2:28:41 PM)

i hate the bbw thing.......all fat chicks are no more beautiful than all thin ones or short ones or tall ones are.

there are many types of beauty, some that shows from the outside and some that glows from within......if it is in your friend, i am sure she will find it....if not, it is not your fault.....

that whole bbw thing just bugs the hell outa me tho........shudder

signed,
just another average fat chickie[:D]



NorthernGent -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 2:30:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

It takes a look, a personality, a confidence in yourself and a happiness with who you are.



True....if you think you are lost, you are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Those who feel the need to proclaim it to anyone who will listen probably dont think they are and are digging for the compliments to boslter their confidence.



Not necessarily. Some people are good for their word.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Frusteration wins out, my friend and I had a short shouting match and she stormed off.



Which suggests you hit too close to home with her, but it begs the question: why were you shouting?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

But she refuses to do anything now, which I think is a bout of depression.



It's not necessarily depression, she could quite easily be unhappy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

She said there are men out there that LIKE women like that (which I find difficult to believe someone would not want their partner to at the very least keep up with their personal hygiene and take some interest in how they look) and she is a BBW and if I dont like it I can kiss off.



I'd be surprised if that were the case, but it takes all sorts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Am I wrong to try and convince her to try and take a bit more pride in how she looks?  Am I being a bad friend by telling her that the title alone doesnt make her appealing?



No. Sometimes it really is true that you have to cruel to be kind, and the best friends are those who will tell it how they see it.



CalifChick -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 2:43:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

Perhaps it would have been better to go with "learning disabled".


Not to derail... I was using real-word excuses.  Parents say "my kid has ADD" when it has not been formally diagnosed using proven medical means.  People say "I have dyslexia" when they have not been tested.  I have not heard people hide behind the statement "I am learning disabled" (although you may have heard that).  It was not about being politically correct.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

Cali



Shawn1066 -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 2:55:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Inspired by the desire to rip the head off a real life friend...
It takes more than just being a big to be a big beautiful woman!
Just like being skinny doesnt automaticaly make you attractive, neither does being big and giving yourself a title.
I think, after this conversation today with a very egotistical reallife friend, I finally understand why some people don't take BBW as seriously as they should.
There are some truly and incredibly gorgeous BBW out there. Those who are self confident, happy wth themselves, who take care of themselves and make an effort to look good ALL the time. Ther are those who dont even NEED to make an effort, they are just stunning.
And, like my friend I spoke to today, there are women who let themselves go, and decide to give themselves the BBW title becaue they are now big. They dont bleieve it, they dont make any effort to keep themselves up or to look good and they think that by calling themsleves BBW it makes everything OK. I find that insulting! I tried to explain to her how I felt, and she told me that since I was NOT a big girl, I had no right to have an opinion on the subject. I disagree.
It takes more than a title to make someone beautiful. It takes a look, a personality, a confidence in yourself and a happiness with who you are. I dont give a damn if you are male or female, big or small, tall or short. If you dont have what it takes to be beautiful... you wont be. I am not talking about ebing a swimsuit model, I certainly never will be and I dont care. I think I look good, I am hapy with how I look and I am confident in myself. If someone considers that beautiful then I am flattered, of someone doesnt then I advise them to look elsewhere. But ust like someone calling themselves a Dominant and then expecting everyone to agree ot getting upset when they dont... calling yourself beautiful doesnt ust work by default. Those who feel the need to proclaim it to anyone who will listen probably dont think they are and are digging for the compliments to boslter their confidence.

Frusteration wins out, my friend and I had a short shouting match and she stormed off. According to her, I am a small mided woman who thinks just because I take care of myself and lost weight that she is ugly now. I dont think she is ugly at all. I do think that the fact that since she has not put any effort into wearing anything that fits properly, wearsn nothign but sweatsuits (some with stains she ignores even if we are in public), hasnt done a thing with her hair aside from pull it into a tight pony tail and doesnt seem to be bating regurlarly makes her unattractive. If she put even a quarter of the effort into presenting herself now that she used to, shed be drop dead gorgeous. But she refuses to do anything now, which I think is a bout of depression. She says she doesnt HAVE to. She said there are men out there that LIKE women like that (which I find difficult to believe someone would not want their partner to at the very least keep up with their personal hygiene and take some interest in how they look) and she is a BBW and if I dont like it I can kiss off.

Am I wrong to try and convince her to try and take a bit more pride in how she looks?  Am I being a bad friend by telling her that the title alone doesnt make her appealing?

Please, dont flame me for this, I am looking for real opinions.  This is not a fat vs skinny thread, this isnt a BBW is wrong thread. This is a thread to ask if, no matter who it is, does suggesting to a friend that they have to take pride in how they look make you a bad person. It bothers me she is looking at the term BBW as a defult fallback that allows her to slack in the personal hygiene department.

*sighs*
DV

I am off to work, I am going to have to wait until I get home to see how badly this explodes. I am hoping for the best.




I'd actually give you my two cents in private when you get home, but I might not remember...so here goes.

You mention that your friend is egotistical.  I find this part interesting.  If she doesn't take any pride in her appearance, perhaps she convinces herself her that everything is OK in an effort to just sweep it under the rug, so to speak.  She's beautiful, and anybody that thinks otherwise is just being intolerant.

In theory, I'd say this was a positive mindset to have...if she really believes it.  From what you've written, it certainly sounds like she doesn't.  If she'd really believed it, then things wouldn't have degenerated so badly...friend or no.

Were you wrong to suggest to her that she should take more pride in her appearance?  No, I don't think so. 

Was she wrong to be made upset about it?  No, I don't think so either.  It's an old cliche, but the truth hurts.

All and all, when you speak to her again, I'm sure cooler heads will prevail and maybe she'll start taking some of your advice.

Just my two cents.



juliaoceania -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 3:06:19 PM)

quote:

I don't know why you feel qualified to determine if she is depressed or not. Honestly some people are just fat slobs, and they don't care what others may think.


Because generally speaking if someone at one point kept themselves up, paid attention to their appearance, and then "let themselves go" it can indicate an emotional problem or mental illness. If one looks at any site that asks questions to help you screen yourself for depression, that is one of the questions asked.

In my experience very few people are just disgusting slobs for no reason. Generally speaking most people that are very ill kept are so because of a physical illness that leaves them with no energy to care how they look, emotional difficulty, mentally ill, or suffer from a serious addiction to drugs or alcohol.. I am sure there are some folks that are slovenly because they do not care if they stink or wear dirty clothing, but I think that is a rather small percentage of the population



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