RE: A short rant (Full Version)

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slaveboyforyou -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 3:12:53 PM)

quote:

Because generally speaking if someone at one point kept themselves up, paid attention to their appearance, and then "let themselves go" it can indicate an emotional problem or mental illness. If one looks at any site that asks questions to help you screen yourself for depression, that is one of the questions asked.

In my experience very few people are just disgusting slobs for no reason. Generally speaking most people that are very ill kept are so because of a physical illness that leaves them with no energy to care how they look, emotional difficulty, mentally ill, or suffer from a serious addiction to drugs or alcohol.. I am sure there are some folks that are slovenly because they do not care if they stink or wear dirty clothing, but I think that is a rather small percentage of the population


I understand that.  I have read those depression pamphlets too.  Slovenly behavior can mean a lot of things.  But the fact still remains, it's not your business to fix other people.  Yes, that includes your friends.  All of us know people that behave in ways that we disagree with.  If you really feel the need to help them, than try to do it in a decent way.  You could ask them to go out shopping for clothes.  You could ask if they'd like to join for a pedicure (or whatever you women do together: KIDDING.)  But, you don't tell someone that they look disgusting if you know it will piss them off. 



subtee -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 3:24:13 PM)

I'm curious as to why it bothers you?



juliaoceania -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 3:26:57 PM)

I agree that it is counterproductive to attack someone who is depressed about their hygiene. If it were my friend, I would tell her gently that I was concerned about her and give her the information about the symptoms of depression, its causes, and treatment options. Depression is a painful thing, both physically and emotionally... sometimes people do not want to admit they are suffering from it.




BitchGoddessD -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 4:00:28 PM)

A significant change in your friend's appearance is a sure sign of depression and/or illness.  Some depression may come from a physical illness.  Some may come from adverse life events.  Some may come from a neuro-chemical disorder.  You know her best and are trying to help.  That is great but not all help will be welcomed by her.  Educating yourself about depression may help you figure out how to remain friends.  It is good to be there for a friend but sometimes you can't.  I have had friendships end over such issues.  Sometimes you can become friends again and sometimes not.  I wish you and your friend the very best and sincerely hope that you are able to remain friends. 



camille65 -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 4:05:16 PM)

A depressed person can also have the strong tendancy to push everyone away, even a dear friend. Sometimes when you push and push it feels impossible to open back up, to say that yeah help could be used and sorry for pushing so hard.I think you should let her know that you still care about her and that you are there if/when she needs to reach out again or is able to.As someone who used to be fat I can tell you that I was fully aware of how I looked and sure didn't need to be told how I looked, Thankfully I never went so far as to drop hygiene probably only because I've always known it to be an obvious sign of depression and I'm the type to hide that. Try getting her a small gift basket with lovely soaps and flavored teas? That could soothe her in more than one way. I know too how hard it is to watch a friend disintegrate, sometimes you just can't help but I applaud you for both caring and trying. To me that is important, to let a friend know you love them even through a really rough patch in their lives. I don't understand the attitude of 'it isn't your job to help her' because to me being a friend means that sometimes it entails a bit of work for the reward.



DiurnalVampire -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 8:58:17 PM)

Well, perhaps a bit more of a backstory is necessary now that I am not as frusterated.
She started the shouting match, telling me that now that I lost wieght and becasme one of the skinny bitches (all size 14 of me) that I had no right to judge her becasue she was fat. As for the depression, she has had bouts of it on and off for most of her post-pubescent years. We both have, I have learned to handle mine better over the years and no longer take medication for it. She is SUPPOSED to be on medication for it and has decided that she doesnt like taking pills daily and has stopped.
Her weight gain happened after her husband divorced her. She stopped caring for a while, and none of us (I am not the only concerned friend, I find out now) thought anything of it becasue it was after the divorce.  We assumed things would get back to normal after a while. They never have, and its been more than a year. She goes off on any of us that show concern, whether it be soft spoken and sweetly phrased or my less sugar coated opinions.  We have known one another since we were in grade school, so how I vice my opinions are nothing new to her. We have done that ourr entire lives. Which is also why I felt it my place TO say something. She was the one in school al our lives that spent more time getting ready in the mornings than we spent getting to school, becasue everything had ot be perfect. She was the glamor girl of the bunch, so seeing her like this kills me. I know she isnt happy, but she doesnt seem to care about herself, nor us anymore.  I did tel her that I refused to be treated badly ust becasue she has a bug up her ass and if she couldnt at the very least dress nicely enough to be seen in public with me I wasnt going to go out with her.  After years of hearing those same opinions about if I didnt learn to dress more like  agirl she wasnt going out with me anywhere... I feel entitled. I would hate to put aside all these years of friendship over this, but if she isnt going to do anything to help herself, my hands realy are tied. I could get around the dressing badly, I am no fashion model. However, I will not walk on eggshells and alow her to berate ME to make herself feel better.

DV

Thank you all for your opinions, I do feel a touch better.

**edited to point out, this is not a face to face conversation, this is a friend who only sees me when it is convenient for her. She will be in my area and so she called. She doesnt live here, and I cant do anything to actually help her in real life, since I am not there. When she stormed off, I was swrn at and then she hung up on me. I called her back to try and smoothe things over, was caled every name in the book, and she hung up on me again. I cant say I didnt try...**



slaveboyforyou -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 9:29:23 PM)

Well DV now that you clarified that a little more, I can understand your reaction.  I go out of my way to be nice to my friends and family, but sometimes you just have to wash your hands of people like that.  She obviously doesn't want any help, so say a prayer for her and leave it alone.  You said that your contact was mostly on the phone, so I suggest using your caller ID.  I love those things, I don't know how we did without them before. 



Marc2b -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 10:11:56 PM)

As one who hade suffered from clinical depression in the past I would add my voice to those who say that your friend does sound depressed. A professional diagnoses would be needed to confirm. However I must also add my voice to those who say there is little you can do beyond offering friendship and support. Depression is like alcoholism, you can’t really force a person to change – they have to want to change.



adoracat -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 10:23:45 PM)

i have a friend, l.  i've always had a bit more meat on my bones than she has on hers.  she was really having a fit about being a size 14.....and i listened to her.  she ended up saying i was probably the only one who really understood how "hippo-like" she felt at that weight.  14 doesnt sound so big....till you know she's 4'10" tall.  and yes, on that (lack of) height, it *was* quite a bit.

its hard to watch someone you've known for years and cared about let themselves totally fall to pieces and become the opposite of what you know their true self is.  and i think you did right, DV, in telling her what you saw in her, even if she didnt like the message.  most people (me included) hate our problems pointed out when we are doing our damned best ostrich imitaion and avoiding the truth.

kitten, who tries to tell herself the truths and doesnt always make it



Muttling -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 10:36:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

Well, perhaps a bit more of a backstory is necessary now that I am not as frusterated.
She started the shouting match, telling me that now that I lost wieght and becasme one of the skinny bitches (all size 14 of me) that I had no right to judge her becasue she was fat.




I think that this is a question which that is too close to your person to give an honest answer.   I know you have some handsome young males in your life, but I question their impunity as well since they may fear an answer that does not please you.



You NEED a man who holds no such fear and will be absolutely honest regardless of your responses.    Present historical pictures of you to me and then present yourself naked before me for thorough inspection.  It would be helpful to have the shouting babe present herself in the same manner, but I will understand if you are the only person woman enough to submit her nude body to me for inspection and will render a complete opinion based on a thorough examination of the evidence presented to me..



Kalista07 -> RE: A short rant (1/14/2008 10:38:01 PM)

DV,
i wanted to tell You that You are truly a really good friend. i mean that sincerely......i think that fact has been shown in sooo many ways tonight: the ways You write about her, the concern that's evident to all, and the fact that You do want to do some sort of reality check to make sure You aren't in the wrong....Well...guess what? You aren't....As i've been sitting here tonight trying to figure out why i have 'issues' with the whole BBW thing the most improtant reality for me is because it's just another label..... Not only is it a label....But, it's kind of a messed up one when You think about it....i don't use it, won't use it, don't like it, cant stand it....Mostly that's because i believe i'm missing the middle B due to the Bigger B, but You get my point... :P
As someone who's had friends that i've had these conversations with and has been the person having the conversation with i would like to offer You some encouragement.....Just stay true to who You are....Send her cards...Email her....Do little simple quick, things that most people don't even think about.....IF she recently lost her husband and is experiening depression (situational or clinical) those kinds of things just may reverse some of the voices in her head...Keep being Yourself with her...Because to be anyone else would not only be a huge loss for You, but it would be a huge loss for her....Just keep telling her when she's ready to be the woman You know she is, that You'll be there for her.......................
Okay, well now that the entire CM community knows i have no brain and make no sense, i guess i'll wonder back to bed for a while.



Alumbrado -> RE: A short rant (1/15/2008 10:18:55 AM)

Self applied titles can be part of a defense mechanism... and may not fit as well as their creator wished.



PanthersMom -> RE: A short rant (1/15/2008 10:31:04 AM)

your friend does sound depressed.  unfortunately there isn't much you can do other than be there to support her when she finally is ready to accept the fact that she needs to change some things about herself.  looks aren't everything, your friend may be right there, but even the plainest person who tries to dress nice and is clean and presentable is more appealing than a smelly, dirty, "beautiful" person no matter what the size.  she has to want to make the changes though, you cannot force it on her.

PM



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