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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 11:46:19 AM

Dnomyar

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Jefff I love ya bud and no I dont want your budwiser.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 11:49:47 AM

Jeffff

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lol..........I would offer my sister...............but I am not to sure about her..:)

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 12:00:29 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

And Paul was the one who really made women subservient.

I would like to point out, that when Paul wrote those passages, he was speaking to a particular congregation. And at the time, the congregation was getting up to some crazy stuff.

Not that he was not still a jerk.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 12:02:56 PM

OmegaG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

And Paul was the one who really made women subservient.

I would like to point out, that when Paul wrote those passages, he was speaking to a particular congregation. And at the time, the congregation was getting up to some crazy stuff.

Not that he was not still a jerk.

I'm unclear if Paul wrote to the congregations expecting others to follow suit no matter who he was addressing or if he truly was only dictating to the particular peoples and it was later leaders who thought he should be applied to all.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 12:05:25 PM

FRSguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

And Paul was the one who really made women subservient.

I would like to point out, that when Paul wrote those passages, he was speaking to a particular congregation. And at the time, the congregation was getting up to some crazy stuff.

Not that he was not still a jerk.

I'm unclear if Paul wrote to the congregations expecting others to follow suit no matter who he was addressing or if he truly was only dictating to the particular peoples and it was later leaders who thought he should be applied to all.

Allways wondered that myself. Especially where they pulled it all out of the trash and published it. I allways wondered if it actually applied to everyone where it was a private letter.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 12:29:24 PM

Lucylastic

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Religious leaders since time began have put their own opinons what is and isnt good for us. Not God...... but falible plain old "man".
I have spent a happy afternoon reading up on lilith(much more interesting), I knew some of the stories but decided to do a lil research for myself

http://www.lilithgallery.com/library/ lots of links to other sources

http://www.gnosis.org/lilith.htm has this info
I thought this was interesting
From The Hebrew Myths by Robert Graves and Raphael Patai (New York: Doubleday, 1964), pp 65-69.)
Graves and Patai have collected traditional Hebrew myths that amplify (and sometimes radically alter) stories found in the Book of Genesis. This chapter, titled "Adam's Helpmeets", deals in part with the Lilith myth. Each section of the chapter excerpted here recounts a "story" collected from non-biblical sources, frequently the Talmud -- sources are footnoted

(b) Some say that God created man and woman in His own image on the Sixth Day, giving them charge over the world; [2] but that Eve did not yet exist. Now, God had set Adam to name every beast, bird and other living thing. When they passed before him in pairs, male and female, Adam-being already like a twenty-year-old man-felt jealous of their loves, and though he tried coupling with each female in turn, found no satisfaction in the act. He therefore cried: 'Every creature but I has a proper mate', and prayed God would remedy this injustice. [3]

(c) God then formed Lilith, the first woman, just as He had formed Adam, except that He used filth and sediment instead of pure dust. From Adam's union with this demoness, and with another like her named Naamah, Tubal Cain's sister, sprang Asmodeus and innumerable demons that still plague mankind.

(d) Adam and Lilith never found peace together; for when he wished to lie with her, she took offence at the recumbent posture he demanded. 'Why must I lie beneath you?' she asked. 'I also was made from dust, and am therefore your equal.' Because Adam tried to compel her obedience by force, Lilith, in a rage, uttered the magic name of God, rose into the air and left him.

Liliths origins according to the Kabbalah
http://www.history.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/

my good deed done for the day, heh
Lucy

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 12:31:55 PM

Justme696

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great thank you!!!!

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 12:34:06 PM

Lucylastic

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More than welcome:)
Lucy

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 12:36:30 PM

Jeffff

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All this politeness...when Mod 11 looks in later she is gonna feel all warm n fuzzy

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 1:19:43 PM

giveeverything

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Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. Lorreta Young

I'll just let the mystery be. Iris Dement

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 1:25:38 PM

domahpet

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~So lilith was a mistake of god? OR did an other God made her?~

good question there
god made her then sent her away, let her loose on the world so to speak.
but didnt blame original sin on her.
one wonders if there were deals struck, or what his thinking was...

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 1:45:11 PM

BossyShoeBitch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bound2One

quote:

I believe that religion provided moral codes of conduct for people who needed to get along for survival 4,000 to 2,000 years ago. And I know alot of people today that would be far more immoral if they didn't have a God telling them to treat others respectfully. So I think that religion has it's place

I view my religion as a basis of faith from which i've learned my spirituality as a child and young adult and now as a reasoning adult can separate the goods within it (most of the teachings) and the bad (all the nonsense associated with the Catholic Church - bad priests, Vatican's $$, etc.) I use the church more as a tool with the UM's to give them something to think about - somewhere to belong if somewhere along their lives they need it. I believe God created humans with free will ... and will certainly understand it if I question, have moments of doubt and lean on Him throughout the hard times in life. None of which has anything to do with a man-made institution, yet everything to do with a faith that I learned at the man-made institution.

Very interesting posts. I've appreciate reading all the viewpoints.

I agree with you 100%. I was just having this conversation with my um's father last night as a matter of fact. He truly feels that religion and/or its traditions aren't necessary and you could replace said traditions with any activity and have it be just as meaningful... *Sigh*

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 1:46:23 PM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

~So lilith was a mistake of god? OR did an other God made her?~

good question there
god made her then sent her away, let her loose on the world so to speak.
but didnt blame original sin on her.
one wonders if there were deals struck, or what his thinking was...

yes, seems he wanted us to be in deep shit

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 3:37:28 PM

FRSguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

~So lilith was a mistake of god? OR did an other God made her?~

good question there
god made her then sent her away, let her loose on the world so to speak.
but didnt blame original sin on her.
one wonders if there were deals struck, or what his thinking was...

I've floated that around my skull a few times and the only thing I can come up with is the half sort of angelic part. Lilith does not behave like a person but more of a spirit... if you notice in the Bible spiritual entities never are actually killed or anything. In fact as far as I know in the Bible nothing ever actually dies but are just "moved" to different territories. Even the devil only gets tossed in the pit in the end... not killed or destroyed in any way.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 4:02:35 PM

domahpet

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well, according to some she became such,
goddess or demon.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 4:26:44 PM

bipolarber

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Getting back to the OP... You might look at the Raelian movement. They're a Canadian-based UFO religion. I looked into possibly joining them shortly after high school. Unfortunately, they do run afoul of some of that list I poster 'way back on the first page... but, they ARE a very sex positive religion, with women being considered equal, and no nasty racisim or misogyny like Gor.

Like any religion, I consider them to be so much bullshit, but if you want to pick a religion, they're probably a little more accepting than most.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 4:50:21 PM

liks2plzlf

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Hey!! What about Joesph Smith? The answer to all the questions is no.

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/16/2008 8:52:58 PM

PhoenixRed

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Hey bipolarber....NeoPaganism. Very sex positive regardless of orientation. Good bunch of folks, judging from those I've met so far!

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/17/2008 12:29:57 AM

MaamJay

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Wow this thread is moving so fast ... it was only 6 pages long when I started reading LOL! And it has taken some wonderful twists and turns along the way.

Getting back to Wheldrake about 2 or 3 pages ago (possibly more by now!) ... the comment was that God might be a Dom ... you have to be on your knees to talk to him etc etc. I've often thought that! But if you believe that Jesus is Son of God and also divine ... he washed the disciples' feet and is known as the servant king ... so doesn't that make him the ultimate sub too? Which means ... GOD IS A SWITCH! Well, actually, he seems to operate as Dom and sub at the same time ... so maybe he is a Duality too ;-) So how can bdsm be wrong?

Or to put it another way ... the bible teaches God created earth and everything in it ... if that doesn't include bdsm then are we saying that came from aliens?

As to the Old Testament vs New Testament etc ... I really can't see why avowed CHRISTIANS insist on pulling "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots" out of the OT as it suits them. Jesus is said to replace the OT, he is the new and only way, truth and life ... and he wasn't anywhere near as keen on the thou shalts/and shalt nots! So bye bye Adam and Eve, Noah and his impossible ark, Leviticus and all those things we can't do, eat etc. Isn't Jesus supposed to be truth and the truth shall set us free? If we want to take on the OT ... prepare for a return to all that killing, sacrificing, slavery, selling people, stealing land, shameless nakedness ... hey, hang on, some of that sounds pretty good LOL! My turn to pull out the bits I like and leave the rest.

While we're on strange biblical tales ... the story of Onan (Genesis 38; 8-10) is usually interpreted to be anti-masturbation. But think of it ... these days, if a man was to lie with his brother's wife and get her pregnant ... in most churches he would be considered to be a grave sinner. But Onan was put to death because he didn't want to get his brother's wife Tamar pregnant (as although his brother Er had been killed by the Lord because he was wicked, any children Tamar produced would be considered to belong to her and Er, not to Onan) ... somehow that just doesn't add up with "thou shalt not commit adultery" as in Exodus 20; 14. OK , it could be argued that Exodus follows Genesis, so maybe after "the Onan affair" God had a re-think and decided on forbidding adultery instead of encouraging it. In which case, while he was laying it out so neatly in the Ten Commandments ... how come "thou shalt not spill thy seed on the ground" (assuming the word masturbate wasn't invented then) didn't make an appearance?

OK none of this is intended to offend anyone ... I spent 10 very happy years as a member of a small charismatic Baptist church (before the Baptists decided we were a bit too charismatic for them and politely suggested we leave, when we then became a member of the Crosslink group of churches!) ... while I don't belong to a church now I still have a faith. I just don't go along with the Bible as the only word of God (why did he stop talking? I believe in rhema, God's word to us today continues), or the very literal belief that some preach. I see its value in the allegory, the messages for particular groups of people at particular times ... and the overall values and concepts that can be derived.

Maam Jay aka violet[A] (another duality ;-) though I can't quite handle subby boys calling Me Goddess!

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RE: Some religions believe - 1/17/2008 12:57:41 AM

Justme696

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IF religion would be discussed like this in church, then I would start visiting sunday
thank you all for the interesting views and information

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