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RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 3:35:54 PM   
tigerstyle


Posts: 168
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline 		Rape games=good.

Rape games with people you don't know well=not smart.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 3:50:13 PM   
chaos9071


Posts: 38
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

OP, I see no pissing contest here, apart from your stinking attitude. You posed a question in a public forum. ANYONE, whether they agree with you or not, can post here. ANYONE can offer opinions if they choose to and yes the CM god, in his infinite wisdom, also gave us the right to deviate by giving advice, even if it wasn't asked for. Just because you started the thread doesn't make you king of the hill.

You'll find it hard to find anyone who's done this, because few people would be that stupid. So I suggest that you and chaos get this girl and give her an almighty scene. You have no need of anyone elses opinion, because you are both so domly.

Let's hope you get the same cell, because then you'll have lots to talk about.


Woah let us be crystal clear about this. I never said. Nor will I ever condone actual rape. We aren't actually talking about rape. We are talking about fantasy. As in not real... not geniune... mickey mouse. I play violent video games where I murder people. It's not the same as actually doing it. If it were I would be in a jail cell right now. He isn't going to jail for this shit unless she has some kind of vendetta against him.  This isn't some trap it is a fantasy. You might not agree with it. Fine that is your right. It is also your right to express your opinions freely here. Just don't be alarmed if I show up and kindly tell you to go fuck your dried up whore cunt with a sandpaper dildo until your eyes bleed.

(in reply to MissMagnolia)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 9:29:29 PM   
tigerstyle


Posts: 168
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos9071

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMagnolia

OP, I see no pissing contest here, apart from your stinking attitude. You posed a question in a public forum. ANYONE, whether they agree with you or not, can post here. ANYONE can offer opinions if they choose to and yes the CM god, in his infinite wisdom, also gave us the right to deviate by giving advice, even if it wasn't asked for. Just because you started the thread doesn't make you king of the hill.

You'll find it hard to find anyone who's done this, because few people would be that stupid. So I suggest that you and chaos get this girl and give her an almighty scene. You have no need of anyone elses opinion, because you are both so domly.

Let's hope you get the same cell, because then you'll have lots to talk about.


Woah let us be crystal clear about this. I never said. Nor will I ever condone actual rape. We aren't actually talking about rape. We are talking about fantasy. As in not real... not geniune... mickey mouse. I play violent video games where I murder people. It's not the same as actually doing it. If it were I would be in a jail cell right now. He isn't going to jail for this shit unless she has some kind of vendetta against him.  This isn't some trap it is a fantasy. You might not agree with it. Fine that is your right. It is also your right to express your opinions freely here. Just don't be alarmed if I show up and kindly tell you to go fuck your dried up whore cunt with a sandpaper dildo until your eyes bleed.



Your reasoning is flawed. It may be a game to you....but if you don't know the other person, then you don't know what it is to them.

(in reply to chaos9071)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 9:44:30 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		lol you think just the reasoning is inappropriate?

As stated before legally you are still engaging in a crime.  If you are engaging in edge play and criminal activity with someone you do not know and do not want to take the time to know who is married and her husband may or may not know it's incredibly naive to think that your personal as well as legal risks are not substantial.  You can get as pissy as you want about it, however the overwhelming response should be telling you something.  You ask in the OP how to protect yourself.  The advice given told you exactly how to do that.  Get to know her so you have a very good idea what you are dealing with and what she is consenting to and what the situation is with the hubby who could tip the balance on this charade.  You declined to follow that advice.  In response the advice is don't do it if you won't actually minimize your risks.  How in any way is that not responsive to your question OP?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to tigerstyle)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 9:45:52 PM   
Aslanemperor


Posts: 108
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		I'm no lawyer, but I've done similar things and here's my advice.  First write out a simple and VERY plain contract in which there is no way to doubt what is going to happen.  Here's an example of what I might write out:

Dana Gray and Jane Doe do agree that on the night of ??/??/???? we will engage in a fantasy sexual encounter in which we will do a mock rape fantasy.  This document is solely to show that sex was consentual.
We have established a safe word which if said will immediately end any and all sexual activity between us.  This safeword is "<insert safeword>".
Jane Doe certifies that she will not attempt to prosecute Dana Gray for rape on this particular night unless it occurs that her safe word is used and he does not cease sexual activity.
Signed,
Dana Gray
Jane Doe

Now, obviously, this isn't a perfect contract, so don't think thats all ya have to do.  Think about what it says and go over it with her.  Also, you may want to have a camera videotaping the whole thing with her consent in order to prove that the safeword was not said.  As always with this sort of thing, BE CAREFUL!!!  There are some twisted people out there.  You're not being to paranoid.  Some people really are that crazy.  Cover all of your bases and get that contract notarized.  Make sure that there's no way you can end up in jail for rape when all you're doing is trying to help someone have some fun, and have some fun of your own.

Final advice.  Make sure she's telling the truth about her husband.  Check with him and make sure you aren't going to find him coming home early with a shotgun to shoot the dude "raping" his wife.
~Aslan

(in reply to waverider66)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 9:57:21 PM   
chaos9071


Posts: 38
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline 		All I really need to know is if she concents to what we are doing. If she doesn't then shows over. If she does. Cool. The contract isn't a bad idea. Sign it before hand. Yeah it would be good to double check with the hubby to make sure. But beyond that I don't see where getting to know this girl is going to make it any safer? I mean how well can you really know someone? 

(in reply to Aslanemperor)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 10:07:36 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		The point I believe you are missing (and seem to be unable to understand regardless of what anyone says, but I'll try one more time) is that consent can be withdrawn at any time and consent given under duress isn't valid.  Asking someone when they are tied up and vulnerable do you continue to consent may be a great relationship skill at times, but it's questionable how much legal validity it has.  Knowing the person, knowing what they truly desire and their limitations make a much better argument.  Taking every precaution and safeguard you can make a much better argument.

A videotape that portrays a rape scene is more likely to be used as evidence against you than as your defense.   A contract written before the act may be the same.  Neither gives consent for a misdemeanor assault, in most places that's not legally possible period.

The most protection any of us have against the vanilla legal standards in the US when we engage in pain/edge play is the trust we have in our partner.  If you do not know the person or at least of the person, trust is unwarranted.  If you don't get this concept, there is a thread running right now about false claims and the effects of trusting the wrong person.  http://www.collarchat.com/m_1492321/tm.htm  and I've seen many similar stories.  What you are doing is not most likely not legal even WITH consent to the sex.  If you cannot trust the person you are with because you don't know them or anything about them, you are foolish to think you have any legal protection.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to chaos9071)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 10:39:04 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos9071

All I really need to know is if she concents to what we are doing. If she doesn't then shows over. If she does. Cool. The contract isn't a bad idea. Sign it before hand. Yeah it would be good to double check with the hubby to make sure. But beyond that I don't see where getting to know this girl is going to make it any safer? I mean how well can you really know someone? 


How about this scenario. You fuck her,it freaks her out. It freaks her husband out. They file a complaint,you go to jail.

Are we having fun yet?

Or are you in a big hurry to experience a good ass raping by bubba, in your cozy little cell for two?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to chaos9071)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/21/2008 11:19:15 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: waverider66

I didn't start this thread to get into a pissing contest. I was asking for advice from people that are experienced in this kind of play. I might not have been clear on my original post so I asked again. Alot of you are coming to conclusions and even deviating from what I have said and then arguing about it. To those that gave insightfull opinions I thank you, to the rest of you lets just call it a day, this is going nowhere.


I believe this thread went exactly the way it needed to go.  It seems pretty clear that you wanted responses that encouraged you to go for it and are not interested in meaningful guidance.  Your disappointment seems to have clouded your rational thought process, but that is your problem. 
It is my experience that many people ask for advice when they are really looking for validation and agreement for actions they have already decided on.  If that is true here, then it is you who have wasted our time, not the other way around.


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to waverider66)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/22/2008 2:56:31 AM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: waverider66

mistoferin Perhaps if you would have read what I had written, you would have not come to the conclusion that I was a bumbling idiot. Whoever put you on the pedestal that you stand, seriously needs to be drawn and quartered. This was a question, not an invitation to show everyone how high and mighty you are. Oh my, how Grandoise you are.....................


So when someone does point out good solid advice, you don't want it. Don't post if you don't want to hear the ideas from those who very probably know a hell of a lot more than you do. You just wanted some good ole boys to be jealous and say go for it. Fine, tell your drinking buddies. If you want an in depth discussion of all points of view ... post it here and take what people say. I know Erin, she is a smart lady. Her advice was very solid. But you don't want good advice. So, go live out your fantasy. There is a small chance it will work out fine. There is a good chance the ladies real fantasy is to be rescued by husband and you'll at best get your ass kicked.

_____________________________

I want to capture your mind, your spirit, your soul, your body, your devotion and your love. Then, will I give you my heart.

(in reply to waverider66)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/22/2008 3:40:47 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Hmmmmmmm wave, have you given any thought as to which penitentiary you will likely be residing in the future? It is something to ponder.

You will wish to find out what your Sunday go to meetin/jammies will look like (as they will be one and the same), probably either that hideous orange or a lovely black and white stripe. Also, you will want to find out what the controlling gangs are at said facility, learn the appropriate hand signs in preparation yanno....... You will also be able to get an idea who's lil bitch boy your gonna be.

It is my guess you will get a first hand err arse, idea what the whole rape/ravishment thing is all about.

Never neglect to think outside the box and without your pecker. Odds are, you will be the real victim to someone else's sadistic game. Never underestimate the sick games people can come up with, and the lengths they will go to to play them. Of course if you want to be the main character in one of those true crime television show episodes by all means..........

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/22/2008 3:42:29 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to waverider66)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/22/2008 3:57:46 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		And you, young man, need to grow up and learn to engage your brain before spouting off your mouth or in this case, fingers. I don't know what you hoped to prove but I can say without a doubt it was not what you did. You've come across as stupid, rude, and completely immature. It is highly doubtful any man or woman that reads the forums would have any interest in you as either a submissive or a dominant.

If you are a serious masochist looking for heavy use and chastity, you might fare slightly better.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/22/2008 3:59:35 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to chaos9071)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/22/2008 9:23:52 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: waverider66

mistoferin Perhaps if you would have read what I had written, you would have not come to the conclusion that I was a bumbling idiot. Whoever put you on the pedestal that you stand, seriously needs to be drawn and quartered. This was a question, not an invitation to show everyone how high and mighty you are. Oh my, how Grandoise you are.....................


Rock on with your bad self dude! Hope you have a good friend lined up who will keep putting some money in your commissary account.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to waverider66)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/22/2008 9:26:39 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		Mistoferin, come down off that pedestal before you hurt yourself!!

Nah, just kidding, stay exactly where you are!!

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/22/2008 9:32:56 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		OP, you asked a question and these lovely people have tried to give you responses. They have given up precious time to try to give you responsible answers, as well as legal advice, to stop you getting into something that could lead you to a criminal charge and possible jail time. They didn't HAVE to, they chose to because they are trying to help. No one but you is being "high and mighty". Of course people are getting heated, because you're being rude and nasty to them.

If you only want answers that agree with your views, then you are wasting your time here. Personally, if this is what you want, I say do it and THEN see who was right.

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


(in reply to MissMagnolia)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/23/2008 10:37:16 AM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		In many of these cases, the little sub is just trying to wind you up. Soon she'll be asking for details and a scenario on how you would ravish her. Then, when she's had enough or your replies bore her.....she disappears. When someone proporting to be a sub asks "what can you do for me?", then perhaps she is not all that she claims to be.

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/23/2008 12:39:41 PM   
tigerstyle


Posts: 168
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Odds are, you will be the real victim to someone else's sadistic game. Never underestimate the sick games people can come up with, and the lengths they will go to to play them......

And if you aren't @#$% paranoid about this kind of setup, you have no business in the rape-play game.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/23/2008 12:49:18 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: waverider66

mistoferin Perhaps if you would have read what I had written, you would have not come to the conclusion that I was a bumbling idiot. Whoever put you on the pedestal that you stand, seriously needs to be drawn and quartered. This was a question, not an invitation to show everyone how high and mighty you are. Oh my, how Grandoise you are.....................


Rock on with your bad self dude! Hope you have a good friend lined up who will keep putting some money in your commissary account.
 I wouldn't do it from either end. Suppose she agrees and is fine with fulfilling her fantasy. But you don't know that her husband is unaware, he returns as you're 'raping' her and shoots you. Or she may panic partway through, forget any safeword and say NO to you. You keep going because she didn't use her safeword.Now that is rape, no matter what you sign or talk over before hand the moment she says NO the fun becomes rape and you will pay for that.  You run the risk of paying with you life, for her fantasy.  Mistoferin? Yanno you haven't any panties on....*looks at her up on that pedestal*

_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/23/2008 12:50:49 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55

In many of these cases, the little sub is just trying to wind you up. Soon she'll be asking for details and a scenario on how you would ravish her. Then, when she's had enough or your replies bore her.....she disappears. When someone proporting to be a sub asks "what can you do for me?", then perhaps she is not all that she claims to be.


Or perhaps she's negotiating a healthy D/s M/s dynamic for herself.....

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to MasterWilliam55)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: "Ravishment" Fantasy - 1/23/2008 1:37:30 PM   
HumiliateherUK


Posts: 12
Joined: 10/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Or perhaps she's negotiating a healthy D/s M/s dynamic for herself.....


Perhaps but in general terms most genuine subs I have corresponded with and then met don't ask for scripted accounts of exactly what one woud do. They understand that the details will depend on THEM, the situation, their reaction, and any external influences at the time.

To the OP yes I have some experience in playing out these games - and I agree in principle with with the advice you have been given. If all goes well it would be a fantastic scene - but the downsides and risks if things go wrong are way outside acceptable bounderies for me.

IF I was going to go for this (which I would not) I would at the very least have a long face to face chat with BOTH hubby and the sub. Document their wishes, preferably with a disinterested 3rd party present (perhaps a scene friend who was "out" and happy to stand up in court), if you can video it so much the better.

And even then you have to make a judgement call because IF she changes her mind half way through OR AT ANY POINT then its legal rape end of story, and depending on where you live in the world "perhaps" the best you can hope of ALL the precautions is that they may play some part in "mitigating" the sentance.

Bottom line its something I would only advise with someone you know VERY well indeed and where there is a huge 2 way trust.

And there are ways of gaining the trust and friendship whilst still retaining 98% of the buzz from playing out the scene


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 60
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