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Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/3/2005 3:55:57 PM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline 		I think I first encountered orgasm denial on a locally themed Femdom Yahoo Club.

The guy supposedly was going to have to go months, maybe a year without an orgasm.

Umm . . . !?!?!

His Domme was also his lover. While I have plenty of desires for cruelty this baffled me. Didn't she enjoy making love to him? Now that I've learned far more about F/m relationships I realize the answer is: possibly not.

Or possibly he was just spinning a fantasy. My next exposure to enforced chastity was men saying they'd been forbidden to orgasm more than once a year or were told they'd never be allowed to have one ever. How much of this is just lonely submissive guys tossing out a yarn I've never been sure.

There's one side of the chastity fetish that I've never really felt empathy for. That men if allowed an orgasm are less attentive. Countless times I've read women and men say this. Normally lifestyle couples, meaning there was - or should've been - an ongoing intense interpersonal dynamic.

Deprivation can certainly make it easier to enter a submissive mindset. But that only sexual frustration could make you want to please someone you'd pledged yourself to is an unappealing image of D/s, 'Femdom' or otherwise.

It took me a long time to appreciate a core aspect of the experience: the men enjoy the enforced chastity.

In a world where people buy bogus herbal junk in search of sexual arousal I can see how fulfilling the excitement of denial can be. (And my earlier speculation that some guys become conditioned to this as exciting because of the denial many experience as horny teenage boys.)

But back to my question: why would a man be less obedient or docile without mandatory chastity?

Two speculations. If you don't like them remember what you paid to read them.

1) Some men may like to think their penis rules them. I like to think this is a societal stereotype of silly Mars and Venus books. Is there a sense of virility in the image of seeing an orgasm the center of your life?

To ask a hugely oxymoronic question: does the orgasm deprivation make him feel more manly? Gender qualities, certainly masculinity, can follow some oddball bypaths.

2) Is there a fear, perhaps invisible to them, that if they don't act up the chastity rules will be relaxed?

If chastity is a favored pleasure for them do they misbehave to insure that their cock goes back in its cage? Topping from the bottom in a funny, indirect way.

Not that there is one answer. Each guy's response if surely a mix of many motivations. Maybe my guesses are partly true for some.

Some may just be emotional slobs.

If you are a bad boy when you're allowed an orgasm why don't you tell me about it. Your hypotheses are as good as mine.

Even if there isn't an answer it tickles me to wonder why.

Richard




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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/3/2005 5:53:00 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Orgasm Denial, over a period of time and conditioning, increases both the intensity, duration and volume of the ejaculate. In women, orgasm denial can increase the number of contractions that occur during orgasm from the average 3 to 7 contractions to as many as 32, 33, 35 or even more. Add to that the many psychological nuances involved in Orgasm Denial, and You can have a field day learning what makes some folks tick.
My sub enjoys being denied orgasm simply because of the herculean effort that is required for him to hold back. Since I'm particularly fond of his voluminous cum once I permit his release, it makes us both happy. Try it sometime! Texas Maam

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/3/2005 6:06:24 PM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline 		It isn't hard for me (anymore) to see lots of pleasure in enforced chastity.

Mostly what has struck me is a repeated theme that males in F/m relationships become disrespectful or much less interesting in pleasing after allowed an orgasm.

Thanks,
Richard

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/3/2005 10:57:10 PM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline 		Hello downonmyknees,

I am not of the male gender, but I would like to share my experience.

When MsN lays down the "no orgasm, no touching until I say" rule.
I am displeased at first, but then, She has ways that I love, to tease,
excite and get me really turned on, so that when She tells me she
want's us to play and make love, it is usually a much wilder scene than
times when we are indulging ourselves.

*Brightspot

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/4/2005 12:27:01 AM   
vonzott


Posts: 39
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		hmmm...

My first take on this is that I *don't* enjoy Orgasm Denial. My Domina may enjoy it, but that's Her perogative. However, as I thought about this a little bit, I realized that I do get some enjoyment from the denial process, because my enjoyment of pretty much anything is keyed to my Domina's enjoyment of that thing. "If mama's not happy, ain't nobody happy" works the other way around, too! "If She's happy, then I'm happy" is my overall attitude.

So, the answer is that I "enjoy" Orgasm Denial because my Domina enjoys it. Do I need another reason?

- vonzott
That which does not kill me, makes me faster...

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/4/2005 10:57:42 AM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		Fastlane runs out of the room with his cock in hand....denial Hell! I'll get my own self off!

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/4/2005 2:21:00 PM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:


Two speculations. If you don't like them remember what you paid to read them.

1) Some men may like to think their penis rules them. I like to think this is a societal stereotype of silly Mars and Venus books. Is there a sense of virility in the image of seeing an orgasm the center of your life?


While the majority would see the drive to not have an orgasm as being something of an oddity, the strive to remain chaste has long stood for something that transcends sexuality and sexual need, usually to a higher power/form. In medieval times in order to reach a higher level of spiritual enlightenment, the weakness of flesh was something to overcome. It was suggested to serve 'God' one must give up all bodily desires, and for years, chaste marriages were encouraged as the epitome of attainment for those wishing to be favoured with the Lord. Meanwhile those who renounced marriage, existing or future, become one of the 'Elite'. The ultimate act of self control.

The inference been one could not serve the Lord if one was constantly thinking about serving thyself.

While the above might be an ancient and archaic view of rudiments of religion affecting human sexual development, I think for some men there is still an element of viewing this drive for orgasm (in the traditional male stereotype) as been a fundamental 'male weakness' rather than a 'male strength'. That there is a sense of achievement in freeing oneself of (apparently) masculine driven needs. Possibly stemming from a belief that 'men', the gender as portrayed in their day to day experiences, were/are not using their 'virility' wisely or responsibly...or relying only on 'virility' to define themselves as male, therefore less inclined to see 'being a man' as anything other than a sexual identity.

quote:

To ask a hugely oxymoronic question: does the orgasm deprivation make him feel more manly? Gender qualities, certainly masculinity, can follow some oddball bypaths.


Albeit he may not be feeling very manly when once again his owning a penis is a burden of he must endure...but if you think about some of the more traditional male characteristics ie strength, self control, being a gentleman, the provider, protector, etc... I believe orgasm denial can afford some men an opportunity to feel they are more intouch with other aspects of being a 'male' (to a 'female'), than say someone who puts the desire for sex/orgasm before these things.

Personally I like men who think like this. This is not to say I think ALL men should be like this...no way. But I enjoy orgasm denial, for both those who desire it as an inherent part of d/s and those who don't. It is a useful tool in any Dominants (female or otherwise) box of party tricks.

quote:

2) Is there a fear, perhaps invisible to them, that if they don't act up the chastity rules will be relaxed?


The locking him in chastity because he can't keep his hand off it kind of scenario where he's been a bad boy and I'm throwing the key away forever...while a great role play and makes for a hot scene, I think is a more fantastical view than anything else. Maybe its because I see my taking care to keep them 'chaste' as been a 'gift' from me, a 'tool' to assist them in renouncing their orgasm to my control. Thus each new element that helps him remain chaste is something of a reward, rather than a punishment. And that the rules are there to assist and aid his submission to me and therefore would never be in jeopardy of being 'relaxed'.

quote:


If chastity is a favored pleasure for them do they misbehave to insure that their cock goes back in its cage? Topping from the bottom in a funny, indirect way.


Again, because I see their chastity as a gift to me and not a pleasure they can 'own' as such, good behaviour is rewarded.

quote:


There's one side of the chastity fetish that I've never really felt empathy for. That men if allowed an orgasm are less attentive.


Rather than seeing it as a negative or derogatory generalisation of 'being male'...I tend to see it as a response of 'being horny', as I too can 'turn off' after orgasm and so definitely do not see 'been less attentive post orgasm' as a male only trait.

However for the man who needs his orgasm's controlled (and this is the context in which we're currently discussing it), if those controlling them DO see a marked difference in some men after orgasm then that becomes a useful piece of knowledge (about that sub); and in a relationship in which orgasm denial is a fundamental aspect, this shift in dynamic (post-orgasm) can be the platform for exploring other aspects of what it is that make him desire submission, so its not all bad news.

Also, I tend to think some men who seek o/d enjoy the mild humilation that comes from been seen to be 'less attentive' post orgasm. It draws attention to their 'weakness of flesh' and reinforces for them why they need orgasm control and denial in the first place.

So it can become one of those what came first delimmas? Is the male attracted to orgasm denial and control more likely to harbour that attraction because he is acutely aware of his failings post-orgasms?

Great topic Richard :)



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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/4/2005 2:57:39 PM   
MrPost


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		I enjoyed reading Jasmyn's response, which plays into my experiences a bit

The first question that comes to my mind, why am I being denied orgasm. Over the years, the most common has been that my penis was hers to do with as she pleases, as long as the nail-gun stays in the shed, and that the denial helped illustrate that fact. Another was to torture me without any accessories, and believe me that a long session of intercourse without a climax is torture, the “that was fun, now bring me a glass of water” as I walk bow-legged away. My last Domme, it was to superficially take sex out of the equation. “You are here to be my servant, not to be my lover,” but with the very nature of the relationship, the sexual overtones had me frequently aroused. I am sure there are a great many other reasons for denial, these are the ones that I have experienced.

As to Richard's question about attentiveness, I can see where that might be an issue, but I took my first Domme’s words to heart when she said “Cum for ME” and I try hard, very hard really, to believe that the pleasure I gain from orgasm is actually my Domme’s.
MrPost


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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/4/2005 5:29:51 PM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the really substantive reply. Not that I'm up to doing it justice right now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn
Rather than seeing it as a negative or derogatory generalisation of 'being male'...I tend to see it as a response of 'being horny', as I too can 'turn off' after orgasm and so definitely do not see 'been less attentive post orgasm' as a male only trait.


Sure, that is just being human. Your nervous system needs to recover, besides there's the pleasure of just holding each other.

It was just reading reports here and there that without mandatory chastity the male would become consistently less attentive.

But as I think about it more if it weren't in a D/s context hearing something about that wouldn't strongly surprise me since it is - if nothing else - the mass media stereotype.

Many thanks,
Richard


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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/4/2005 5:34:53 PM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrPost
As to Richard's question about attentiveness, I can see where that might be an issue, but I took my first Domme’s words to heart when she said “Cum for ME” and I try hard, very hard really, to believe that the pleasure I gain from orgasm is actually my Domme’s.


Certainly the case in my one and only relationship that includes D/s.

I understand the exchange of power and such with enforced orgasm control.

I've just been a bit startled to read women say that if denial isn't maintained the man will be less likely to surrender, attend to the acts he's promised to perform.

That struck me as odd in a man whose pleasure is in pleasing and left me to speculate was if the recalcitrant behavior was partly to insure that the orgasm denial would be maintained because of the pleasue he gets from the sustained arousal.

Again, I'm just noodling. I don't claim to be a sexual psychologist or anything.

Thanks,
Richard

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/5/2005 1:53:27 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: iamdownonmyknees

I've just been a bit startled to read women say that if denial isn't maintained the man will be less likely to surrender, attend to the acts he's promised to perform.

That struck me as odd in a man whose pleasure is in pleasing and left me to speculate was if the recalcitrant behavior was partly to insure that the orgasm denial would be maintained because of the pleasure he gets from the sustained arousal.




Well, Richard, I've not read the same 'reports' you have perused lately, but the point of enforced chastity is to retrain the males' triggers. Rather than have him 'browse the internet for porn' or 'girlwatch' and then run to the shower like "Fastlane" does, the discomfort of a good quality chastity device will discourage such 'browsing' in the first place. In addition, it makes him acutely aware of when, why, and most of all how often he becomes aroused. When a man can masturbate daily, or multiple times a day in a dysfunctional fellow, to relieve his urges, he will often respond more often, and more quickly, to more varied and unrelated stimuli. It could be as simple as the turn of an ankle at the office or as complex as feeling himself raise a hardon at the appearance of a male coworker. The reference to a chastened man remaining more attentive and focused refers to pavlovian conditioning, and it happens over time, sometimes requiring a long period of time. A sex addict in need of retraining, for whatever reason, be it infidelity or perversions of his own design, can 'unlearn' those responses over time. I'll give you a real life example: a sub petitioned Me for service because he'd been referred by a friend who had overcome an obcession by responding to enforced chastity. The fellow had developed a bestiality fetish and was separated from his wife as a result. They were negotiating a reconciliation but he did not want to enter into the attempt with the burden of such an obcession on his mind all the time. The device used was a rather wickedly uncomfortable one, so that any online activity that browsed bestiality sites became painful and unsatisfying. The poor fellow phoned me once in misery because he'd just driven along the highway and grown hard, in his device, at the sight of a mare urinating in a field; he berated himself, breaking down over the phone, telling himself and Me that he was sick and perverted and that no normal man would have responded the same way. I quickly reminded him that since he'd spent the last 18 months of his life jacking off to the imagery of horses online, the conditioning wasn't really so remarkable or far fetched. The only release he was allowed during an 11 month retraing period was with Me, in my presence. Naturally, rather than waste 4 hours a night purusing bestiality photos and and videos, he quickly gravitated towards activities that would earn him the reward of orgasm and release. He gradually learned, wearing the device, that his old obcession caused him discomfort and agitation. When he focused his sexual thoughts and fantasies on activities that won him My favor and gratification in ways other than prostate milking, he learned to control his own thoughts and daydreams. Ergo, it could be said that he became much more 'attentive' to Me. That was the entire point. Since his training, and subsequent self awareness, he's managed to stay away from his prior triggers and remain happily married. How long will that last without reinforced chastity? Indefinately, if he could confide in his wife and ask HER to be the keyholder when he needed reinforcement. Will they ever broach the subject between the two of them? Only he could say. Did the sub 'enjoy' chastity or forced o/d? I doubt it. He was grateful for the lessons, but I daresay he was 'fond of them'. It's a tool to break a bad habit. Thank goodness it's available to those who need it. Texas Maam

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/5/2005 3:26:43 PM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

The reference to a chastened man remaining more attentive and focused refers to pavlovian conditioning ...


That assumes that it makes him more attentive. Some men would simply chose to leave.

Having once called myself 'biologically monogamous' and having no interest in porn (not that I disapprove of it) I suspect that I have lots of emotional blindness about some aspects of this.

I can see a whole rainbow of reasons why either side would enjoy orgasm control, denial. But not why a truely loving amd/or submissive male would become habitually less attentive or caring without it. (Unless of course it is really one of his strongest desires.)

quote:

Since his training, and subsequent self awareness, he's managed to stay away from his prior triggers and remain happily married.


The story of the man who overcame a dysfunctional fetish via a chastity device was interesting. Haven't read anything like that before.

Thanks.

Richard (Whose perverion is being wholly romantic.)


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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/6/2005 6:22:24 AM   
lonewolf05


Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline 		it tickles you to wonder why.

ohhhhkaaaayyyyy.

here goes.

i am already self celebate. no sex with anyone since 2001. no one forced it on me. i chose it. i have to be in love to be intimate. and i have not found one female that is interested in ME...i am too short, and too ugly and too poor.
so what the hell. why worry about something i cant get anyway.
so i remain celebate.
now......
enforced chastity? hmm. i JUST had my p.a. and guiche 9/1....and when it heals by halloween,...Mistress will padlock it and i will not be able to have masturbation w/o permission. why? coz it's a power trip for Her and i am fulfilling Her wishes....to prove my dedication and devotion.
and hell,..it seems a bit too difficult now to masturbate with my new jewelry....since the p.a. is in the EXACT spot where the male gland is, under the head,...where masturbation is best felt......that feel-good spot.
i don't know if i will be ABLE to masturbate now with the new jewelry in.

but this is MY story. did i settle your tickle now?

wolf


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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/6/2005 6:39:44 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		I think orgasam denial is just anothe form of control over the sub/slave. i must admit when i was denied i hated it but when i was allowed release it was a lot more powerful sometimes moved me to tears it was so intense. That is another reason i think.

littleone

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/6/2005 8:38:37 AM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35
... when i was allowed release it was a lot more powerful sometimes moved me to tears it was so intense. ...


For some people I've sometimes felt sexuality's power diminishes over time. It becomes as much of a habit as a profound pleasure. For someone like that (I'm not saying it applies to you) then I would think periods of orgasm denial would really be quite a boon.

While I don't think i've trivialized my own sexuality I can't pretend it is as often as breathtaking as it was during the first years after I shed my virginity. This is one reason that I and my partner may explore it when she returns to the US.

Thanks,
Richard

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/6/2005 10:15:06 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:


That assumes that it makes him more attentive. Some men would simply chose to leave. I can see a whole rainbow of reasons why either side would enjoy orgasm control, denial. But not why a truely loving amd/or submissive male would become habitually less attentive or caring without it. (Unless of course it is really one of his strongest desires.)


That is very much the crux...the o/denied enjoy it and crave it, or come to enjoy it and thus begin to crave it. I think part of the problem with understanding the phenomenon in 'being less attentive' while thinking in terms of a submissive, could be in that there is a perception all who indulge in orgasm denial are inherently submissives whereas this is not always the case.

A lot don't see their need for o/d being so much about submission and devotion because 'Mistress' requests it and they love serving her, but rather more a need to be controlled because they themselves are out of control, without focus so to speak... and the d/s dynamic of 'owning' and 'controlling' someones orgasm lends itself to that.

It being more of a case for them that the Mistress be someone who without batting an eyelid takes a god given masculine right and removes it... how unbelieveably powerful is she? Their penis like a dog on a leash, allowed off the chain only when she desires.
Whereas a sub who serves from a inherent need to be 'of service' would not be as affected by this as you don't need the 'Mistress' to remove your 'manhood' (so to speak) to serve.

So no I don't see a submissive becoming less attentive if o/d wasn't a mandatory act, but I can see it happening for those who *need* that form of control. A kind of cup half full or a cup half empty thing...when they are allowed orgasm, afterwards their cup is half empty...to see that cup as half full again...negative through to a positive outlook...they need to be back in a state of denial.

Without it, I see it as bit of a lost soul syndrome. There is a 'safety' a 'security' a 'lack of responsibility (over self)' in having boundaries and/or 'in the state of being a' (ie sissy, worm, cuckold, o/denied, etc) that work alongside the *pleasure* of been in that state.


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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/6/2005 2:07:43 PM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

...the o/denied enjoy it and crave it, or come to enjoy it and thus begin to crave it.


The male's enjoyment was a huge insight for me when I grasped it. Fantasies of 'heartless femdom bitches' aside at first I was just sort of baffled.

quote:

Whereas a sub who serves from a inherent need to be 'of service' would not be as affected by this as you don't need the 'Mistress' to remove your 'manhood' (so to speak) to serve.


Right. If you really feel the need, hopefully pleasure in pleasing then it shouldn't be necessary.

This game, ritual, practice - what have you - is great for thinking about the nature in D/s and how varied needs and desires of the people who may enter into BDSM relationship are.

Many thanks,
Richard



< Message edited by iamdownonmyknees -- 9/8/2005 4:05:28 AM >

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial - 9/7/2005 10:26:46 AM   
Dracironsgirl


Posts: 175
Joined: 7/2/2005
Status: offline 		for Master He gets a great deal of pleasure in denying orgasm, it's a control over me kind of thing and i must admit that i love it when He denies orgasm because of the power thing. the more He denies me, the more i want it.

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial (soc.subculture.bondag... - 9/8/2005 4:09:33 AM   
iamdownonmyknees


Posts: 93
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Durham NC USA
Status: offline 		In addition to Jasmyn's responses I got a couple on soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm.femdom from a man named Tom Allen. He really opened up my eyes to aspects of the kind of people who may enjoy chastity play.

See: Link

Thanks for the discussion.

Richard

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RE: Why Men 'Like' Orgasm Denial (soc.subculture.bondag... - 9/27/2005 6:20:51 PM   
PassionateNights


Posts: 49
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This is an intriguing subject, mainly becasue i find that orgasm denial works very powerfully on me. i can only speak from personal experience but as a man, i have foudn the arousal is th most potent of the stimulations. Once i reach orgasm i find myself dissapointed, the pleasure is just a little more intense than what brought me to that edge. In a scene i could care less if i reach orgasm as long as she's having a good time. if i do cum it will be a good 20-30 minutes before i can get hard again and therefore provide my dominant with one less things to enjoy.
As for long term denial, i must say after a week or so my sex drive goes into hybernation. When aroused and denied, i am certainly easier to get into subspace, more likely to push limits and much more attentive....it's purely a chemical reaction. i of course am only speaking for myself

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