RE: Intresting Question

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celticlord2112 -> RE: Intresting Question (2/9/2008 7:36:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterGallad What is the moivation with the Gorean lifestyle? I mean this is based of a piece of fictional liturature is it not? A more interesting question: What is your motivation is asking this?

Aswad -> RE: Intresting Question (2/9/2008 8:37:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael I was thinking about Gor today and why it gets so deeply under my skin and yet I am in other ways very tolerant of others kinks such as cuckholding, forced bisexuality, diaper play, and god knows what else. Something we have in common, I should think. quote: I don't know if it is the combination of the holier than thou view Gorians hold of BDSM, Many Goreans. And I'd say the converse has been amply demonstrated in the BDSM community, wouldn't you agree? quote: the assumption that anything manly, noble, brave, etc. is a trait reserved for Gorians, It is clearly not. And several respected Goreans have said as much. Some want to feel special, just like many in the BDSM community will pretend that kink is anything more special than "variant normal." quote: that they are obsessed with who is more real and argue about it online, Okay, so there's a bunch of "twuism" there, too. Kind of like silly arguments between Catholics and Protestants. The more sensible ones are interested in discussing philosophy, and couldn't care less whether others follow their version or not. quote: or the fact that every Gorian I have ever met is a fat overweight slob with more in common with Jabba the Hut than Conan the Barbarian. Well, yeah, that'd make a crap impression. It doesn't seem to hold for e.g. Bull, Orion, Leonidas, etc. Unbelievably, some who identify as Gorean will not take it seriously... what's with people these days... soon, British Protestants will go "Yeah, well, I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in God, Jesus, the Bible, or any of that other shit" ... oh wait... guess it's already so. And even more unbelievably, even the ones who are hard-core quote-thumpers can't seem to invent a real counterpart to those damn stabilizer serums, so despite training and all that, some of the non-slobs can even end up with medical issues. No excuses, but until I win the fight to approve experimental treatment, lifting a barbell takes away my muscle, rather than restoring it. I imagine some have similar issues, although I quite realize there's a bunch of players in online chatrooms who fit the description for no other reason than being an even bigger slob than me. [;)] quote: Granted, my exposure to Gorians is limited, one ran a local group and is responsible for much of the bad blood in my community, another now runs a munch for "newbies" so they can prey on the ignorant and vulnerable. That would seem to explain it, wouldn't it? quote: Take CM for instance, you can read in the Gorian section about how fake, weak, or insert your favorite pejorative us perverts are but as brave and manly as they are, they only insult us from their protected playground. I don't know, perhaps that is what most pisses me off. That pisses me off when it happens too. And I'm not the only one. Sometimes I ignore trolls, though. Don't you? quote: Henceforth, I am going to do my best to consider Gor just another kink I don't get and am not interested in. However, my offer to sword fight any Gorian still stands unanswered. Why would I want to sword fight you? I've got no quarrel with you, and you'd prolly kill me. [:D] Health, al-Aswad. Edited 'cuz this Gorean slob can only spell "quote" correctly a certain number of times in a post.

batshalom -> RE: Intresting Question (2/9/2008 9:32:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone Just wondering who or how the Bible has been *proven* to be fiction. I realize some people THINK its fiction. My point was only that the Gor books are definitely fiction. [;)] True, the Gor series was always intended as fiction. The bible (and other faith-based works) is a historical work with propagandist latitude written in. Please forgive me for misspeaking earlier - it isn't entirely fiction. There are some historically accurate pieces of information in it, and there are many many common threads through the christian bible, the qu'uran, and the torah. However, the bible (et al) is not an actual account of what went on in antiquity. There were reasons it was written and put together the way it was. How it was proven, I cannot answer you that - it's been too long since seminary - but historians, theologians, and linguists agree. I do recommend, if you aren interested, to visit a non-literalist christian church (like a teaching methodist church) or a seminary (like Duke) and sit in on biblical discussions. It's horribly interesting, and best of all, you never ever have to change your beliefs. Like I said earlier, faith requires no proof. If you believe the bible is a literal piece of literature, by all means believe so. That's the cool thing about faith.

solia -> RE: Intresting Question (2/9/2008 9:52:44 PM)
Thanks so much BlackPhx for the most comprehensive explanation that I've seen yet. I've not had the opportunity to read the books. Your reply gives me a better idea of what it's all about .. thanks again .. solia

BlackPhx -> RE: Intresting Question (2/9/2008 10:44:03 PM)
Well my poenkitten seems to have replyed most eloquently to this post so I suppose I should put in my 2 cents worth. I will admit the Gor novels was my first exposure to the concept of D/s. I discovered the internet a year later but read all of the novels and indeed it may have shaped who I am today. Do not get me wrong I always had latent desire for sadistic control, but the Gor novels did not make all men serial rapists/killers using and discarding thier slaves like kleenex. In fact, one of the core concepts of the books was the kajira were more important to the men then the free women, the slaves were thier most treasured possession to be protected and cherished. The protagonists of the novels shead a positive light on both sadism, and dominant behavior in a society that accepts these ideals as both natural and well.......right. Our society on the other hand views these desires as wrong, deviant, abnormal, or the very least unsafe behavior suitable only for serial rapist/killers aka sexual predators. I think people embrace the Gor subculture because it accepts their needs, desires, and promots them as morals to aspire to. Acceptance, is a powerful force in a world full of rejection and castigation.

breatheasone -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 12:27:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: batshalom quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone Just wondering who or how the Bible has been *proven* to be fiction. I realize some people THINK its fiction. My point was only that the Gor books are definitely fiction. [;)] True, the Gor series was always intended as fiction. The bible (and other faith-based works) is a historical work with propagandist latitude written in. Please forgive me for misspeaking earlier - it isn't entirely fiction. There are some historically accurate pieces of information in it, and there are many many common threads through the christian bible, the qu'uran, and the torah. However, the bible (et al) is not an actual account of what went on in antiquity. There were reasons it was written and put together the way it was. How it was proven, I cannot answer you that - it's been too long since seminary - but historians, theologians, and linguists agree. I do recommend, if you aren interested, to visit a non-literalist christian church (like a teaching methodist church) or a seminary (like Duke) and sit in on biblical discussions. It's horribly interesting, and best of all, you never ever have to change your beliefs. Like I said earlier, faith requires no proof. If you believe the bible is a literal piece of literature, by all means believe so. That's the cool thing about faith. Thats a very cool suggestion...One that hadn't dawned on me either....I may actually seriously consider doing something like that....I love brain food[;)]

Alumbrado -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 1:01:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: MasterGallad What is the moivation with the Gorean lifestyle? I mean this is based of a piece of fictional liturature is it not? A more interesting question: What is your motivation is asking this? Looking at the OP's 8 contributions so far, it doesn't look like answering questions is his style...[:D]

Justme696 -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 1:57:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlesui I personally find it on a par with modelling my life and life choices around the Thomas the Tank Engine books (also renowned for their strict approach to life and its dilemma's). I would hope to find a Dominant who is a little more creative than that! so people that have a believe and live according the bible..have no creative mind too? (remember the bible is not proven to be real of fake as soem one said) come on people..just say you hate goreans... or come with good examples. We handle it...lol

Alumbrado -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 6:24:26 AM)
quote: come on people..just say you hate goreans... or come with good examples. I certainly don't hate Goreans as I've experienced them, I am just offput by any labelled group who presumes to define honor and integrity for me, while being full of excuses as to why they don't actually walk the literal walk from their scripture themselves. There is a term for that condition, I believe it is called 'human foibles'...[;)]

Justme696 -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 6:31:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: come on people..just say you hate goreans... or come with good examples. I certainly don't hate Goreans as I've experienced them, I am just offput by any labelled group who presumes to define honor and integrity for me, while being full of excuses as to why they don't actually walk the literal walk from their scripture themselves. There is a term for that condition, I believe it is called 'human foibles'...[;)] have to agree with that....they don't like opponents..lol we aswell as them should respect eachother in the choices we make...and not judge..then all might be happy. I am just in the middle of both..and like both opinions

Aswad -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 6:57:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado I certainly don't hate Goreans as I've experienced them, I am just offput by any labelled group who presumes to define honor and integrity for me, while being full of excuses as to why they don't actually walk the literal walk from their scripture themselves. Can anyone really define honor for anyone else? As far as I can tell, the word has two uses: internal and extermal. One is a measure of how well you measure up in your own eyes, the other a measure of how well your own yardstick aligns with the one the rest of your society is using. And, again, far as I can tell, there isn't any common standard among Goreans in that regard. Sure, a bunch will have a reasonably shared set of values, but I would tend to assume that those are usually a carryover from their rearing. By contrast, integrity would seem fairly simple. For once, Wikipedia offers a reasonably apt definition: one is said to have integrity to the extent tthat everything he does and beliieves is based on the same core set of values; while those values may change, it is their consistency with each other and with the person's actions that determine his integrity. That was my motive for moving to my previous system of morals, as I found that vulgar morality was lacking in internal consistency, and that itched. Of course, anyone attempting to live their life by the doctrines of the books will find that this is impossible, due to the inconsistencies. But, as previously mentioned, I didn't arrive at it from that angle; it just clicked on its own, a revelation. Health, al-Aswad.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 7:56:05 AM)
quote: Looking at the OP's 8 contributions so far, it doesn't look like answering questions is his style... I have noticed this. Which was part of my motivation in asking the question. [;)]

MasterGallad -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 9:34:26 AM)
Wow, I did not know that there would be such a debate. I am simply interested in what peoples thoughts are about the motivations of individuals that subscribe to this type of dogma. Great discussion though, which has opened my eyes on many levels. ~G

Aswad -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 1:12:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterGallad Wow, I did not know that there would be such a debate. I am simply interested in what peoples thoughts are about the motivations of individuals that subscribe to this type of dogma. Great discussion though, which has opened my eyes on many levels. ~G An interesting- and complementary- question would be about the motivations of individuals who subscribe to the dogma of contemporary humanist thought. [:D] Health, al-Aswad.

Justme696 -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 1:18:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: MasterGallad Wow, I did not know that there would be such a debate. I am simply interested in what peoples thoughts are about the motivations of individuals that subscribe to this type of dogma. Great discussion though, which has opened my eyes on many levels. ~G An interesting- and complementary- question would be about the motivations of individuals who subscribe to the dogma of contemporary humanist thought. [:D] Health, al-Aswad. and an explanation about what you just said..for the non-english lol

Jayxkes -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 2:21:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone Just wondering who or how the Bible has been *proven* to be fiction. I realize some people THINK its fiction. My point was only that the Gor books are definitely fiction. [;)] mmmmm There were 'studies' done which showed a number of flaws in the bible. Fact is that for some the bible, and many other religious books, are absolute truth. Others find them absolute fiction. Which side one is on is of no matter, it's simply a personal choice. The Gor books are fiction. They do not pretend to be anything other than that. They are knocked and rideculed for any numeber of reasons, some valid some not. Those that live a Gor lifestyle, at least in my experience, are fully aware that the books are fiction, however they take from them that which enhances their lives. Remarkably similar to those who choose to believe the bible! The thing I find most noticable, Those who follow Gor are more than happy to accept those who don't!!!!

Aswad -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 4:50:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 and an explanation about what you just said..for the non-english lol Quite simply... She implied that every Gorean is following a set dogma. And indeed many do. Some are pragmatic about it. But the thing is that the values and beliefs we are raised with in the West are no less of a dogma, and you'd be surprised to learn just how far down some things go, and how insidiously they color perceptions and thinking. And when internalized, neither system is more of a dogma than the other. An assumption is implicit in what she said. The assumption of the Western view as the default. Considering I arrived at it by myself, and not through books, it would be equally valid to ask why she has chosen to follow Western thought as it is to ask why I have chosen to think as I do. We might as well ask: why does anyone hold any values and beliefs whatsoever? And the short answer is usually either (a) it's all they know, or (b) it suits them. Health, al-Aswad.

InkedMaster -> RE: Intresting Question (2/10/2008 7:47:01 PM)
Personally my philosophy of the BDSM lifestyle the way I live it is based on stacks old Easy Rider and Outlaw Biker magazines on the workbench.

Justme696 -> RE: Intresting Question (2/11/2008 1:05:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 and an explanation about what you just said..for the non-english lol Quite simply... She implied that every Gorean is following a set dogma. And indeed many do. Some are pragmatic about it. But the thing is that the values and beliefs we are raised with in the West are no less of a dogma, and you'd be surprised to learn just how far down some things go, and how insidiously they color perceptions and thinking. And when internalized, neither system is more of a dogma than the other. An assumption is implicit in what she said. The assumption of the Western view as the default. Considering I arrived at it by myself, and not through books, it would be equally valid to ask why she has chosen to follow Western thought as it is to ask why I have chosen to think as I do. We might as well ask: why does anyone hold any values and beliefs whatsoever? And the short answer is usually either (a) it's all they know, or (b) it suits them. Health, al-Aswad. thank you for taking the time to explain :) clear now

giveeverything -> RE: Intresting Question (2/11/2008 11:38:37 AM)
I REALLY don't want to get into a big debate over this....BUT the "Gor" books are PROVEN fiction...theres NO doubt they are fiction....No one has proven that the Bible is or is not fiction. I don't think a guy really lived in a fish's stomach. And the contradictory nativity stories lends more credence to the fact that it is parable rather than fact. And that's okay.

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