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slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 6:43:35 AM

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On this site, we who are not Dominants must identify ourselves as either submissives or slaves, so obviously there is a difference. i'm interested in what you think the difference is...i have my own thoughts on what those differences are, but frequently i see the designations used interchangeably here and everywhere. Made me curious.
Similarly, why is there not a differentiation here between Dominants and Masters? Should there be? Are they indeed one and the same to you?
Your thoughts, please!
Sorry if this question is redunant - i looked for a similar posting, but couldn't find one.

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RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 6:53:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: arrow

On this site, we who are not Dominants must identify ourselves as either submissives or slaves, so obviously there is a difference. i'm interested in what you think the difference is...i have my own thoughts on what those differences are, but frequently i see the designations used interchangeably here and everywhere. Made me curious.

Brave brave person!

We don't have to identify ourselves as anything, many people don't. Some people identify as masochists or bottoms, not subs or slaves at all. Some people just say "whatever the heck you want, I'm happy."

They are used "interchangably" because there is no universal definition, so how one person uses it may be completely consistent with THEIR definitions, but completely crossed over on someone else's definitions.

But since you were so brave to ask outright...
*MY* definition is that a submissive is "someone who is oriented towards intimate personal relationships in which he/she transfers overall day-to-day authority to another"

A slave (in the M/s sense) is "someone who is oriented towards intimate personal relationships in which he/she transfers all ultimate authority possible to another"

quote:

Similarly, why is there not a differentiation here between Dominants and Masters?

There is, just as much/little as there is between subs/slaves.

quote:

Should there be? Are they indeed one and the same to you?

No, my differentiations between a "dominant" and an "owner/master/mistress" are about the same as the "sub/slave" ones.

quote:

Your thoughts, please!
Sorry if this question is redunant - i looked for a similar posting, but couldn't find one.

arrow

Oh there are a few out there. This is one of the Top Five BDSM Debated Topics. It almost always gets nasty.

(in reply to arrow)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 7:09:12 AM

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What's the difference between a tasty morsel and a delicious one?

(in reply to arrow)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 7:11:58 AM

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This is what i thought: a Master is a Man who wants a slave; a woman who will do as she is told without hesitation or limits. A Dom is a Man who wants a submissive; who will do as asked without hesitation but within certain agreed-upon limits.

But it is also obvious that P/pl do not adhere to these definitions, as Emerald said.

pinkpleaasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 9/15/2005 7:13:08 AM >

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(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 7:27:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Brave brave person!

We don't have to identify ourselves as anything, many people don't. Some people identify as masochists or bottoms, not subs or slaves at all. Some people just say "whatever the heck you want, I'm happy."

They are used "interchangably" because there is no universal definition, so how one person uses it may be completely consistent with THEIR definitions, but completely crossed over on someone else's definitions.

But since you were so brave to ask outright...
*MY* definition is that a submissive is "someone who is oriented towards intimate personal relationships in which he/she transfers overall day-to-day authority to another"

A slave (in the M/s sense) is "someone who is oriented towards intimate personal relationships in which he/she transfers all ultimate authority possible to another"

quote:

Similarly, why is there not a differentiation here between Dominants and Masters?

There is, just as much/little as there is between subs/slaves.

quote:

Should there be? Are they indeed one and the same to you?

No, my differentiations between a "dominant" and an "owner/master/mistress" are about the same as the "sub/slave" ones.

quote:

Your thoughts, please!
Sorry if this question is redunant - i looked for a similar posting, but couldn't find one.

arrow

Oh there are a few out there. This is one of the Top Five BDSM Debated Topics. It almost always gets nasty.

DAMN you're good Emerald! There's not anything I can add to your post, except for my admiration for the way you describe it.

cello

_____________________________

There's too much Blood in my Caffeine system!

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 7:33:00 AM

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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

What's the difference between a tasty morsel and a delicious one?

[puckish mode on]

The size of her nipples?

[puckish mode off]

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www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 7:36:05 AM

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Personally, I feel that it's all about what floats your boat.

I consider myself to be a submissive. I say this because although Master has control, I am in a position to make decisions through out the day. He calls me his slave. I defer the choice of titles to him. A slave in my eyes would operate less independently than I do.

In my eyes, there is a difference between Master and Dominant. My thoughts are that you're Master when you "own" a slave or submissive or had the title given to you like earning your "leathers" in some communities. Or you're a boy under twelve......

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 7:46:52 AM

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I'm so happy there are people like you and Em to put my thoughts into words!

quote:

I consider myself to be a submissive. I say this because although Master has control, I am in a position to make decisions through out the day. He calls me his slave. I defer the choice of titles to him. A slave in my eyes would operate less independently than I do.

That is exactly how I would describe myself too.

cello

_____________________________

There's too much Blood in my Caffeine system!

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 7:54:49 AM

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The distinction between sub and slave can be great or small, it is a matter of personal definition.

If you have a definition that works for you, go with it.

Nuke }:-

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 8:12:31 AM

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I think it depends on each and every individual interaction between us as humans. I *identify* myself as submissive, I'm just not submissive to all. Others have called me a switch more then once and I suppose if they feel that way then maybe to them I am. Yet switching doesnt feed a need in me. Obviously I could never serve one I can Top, I'd loose the nurishment in such a relationship very quickly.

The Master/Dom question? . . . for me either would be one I could find myself submissive to, yet I've found myself drawing a personal line between the two definations in times past. A Dom might get my submission, but a Master I will follow almost blindly.

Q

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(in reply to Nuke718)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 8:12:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: arrow

On this site, we who are not Dominants must identify ourselves as either submissives or slaves, so obviously there is a difference. i'm interested in what you think the difference is...i have my own thoughts on what those differences are, but frequently i see the designations used interchangeably here and everywhere. Made me curious.
Similarly, why is there not a differentiation here between Dominants and Masters? Should there be? Are they indeed one and the same to you?
Your thoughts, please!
Sorry if this question is redunant - i looked for a similar posting, but couldn't find one.

arrow

You want opinions?

Ok, well these are mine, only mine, and not meant to be universal or generic -- if you want to know why this website splits the terms up, you'll need the ask the people who created it.

I see submissive and dominant as personality and role descriptions -- you can be either one with or without a partner.

I see slave and master as relationship roles -- I'm not a mistress, I'm a dominant who happens to be the mistress of one slave currently. (I do a master's degree in history however)

I also see multiple types of relationship roles of which only two are this slave and master category.

For me, personally, there are several differences between slave and submissive as relationship roles. What I'm about to say may offend but please remember that this is only about me and how I see those I have relationships with.

I think that submissive is a more limited role -- a giving into another person's will, a need for guidence and structure, the desire for attention, the desire to be obedient, and I think it tends to be limited by the amount of time when one can be submissive to another's will.

I think that a slave is much larger role -- service and the good of the owner is foremost and therefore being submissive may not be the best thing. No need for guidence beyond the initial training because the slave is always aware of what is needed and wanted. While attention is good I think a slave also knows that service in and of itself is rewarding. Obedience is excellent but only when it is in the best interest of the owner's health, life, wealth, and property (this also includes the slave).

I'm sure this is quite confusing, perhaps an example will help?

When I've had a partner in the submissive role it feels much like being a teacher all the time -- I expect the submissive to ask me how to do something, when to do it, to need guidance, and to need feedback often.

When I've had a partner in the slave role its feels more like being cared for and being a princess -- I will say "do this" and then it is done, not just this one time but whenever a similar situation happens, giving feedback occurs not because I think it is needed by the other person but because I feel like giving it.

Hhhmmmm......

Or you can think of it as my slave does (this is based on his being rather explicit about it several times): A submissive lets go and can float in another person's authority; a slave works to support another person's authority. The first is a vacation, the second is a profession.

Interestingly then, in my house, being in a submissive role then is a vacation for my slave because he gets to just float in my authority and doesn't have to think and plan and be active.

Nice job rambling, TammyJo!

Please remember that this is just me -- this is not the reason or an attempt at a reason for this websites terms or for anyone else's.

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,
TammyJo

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 9/15/2005 8:17:41 AM >

(in reply to arrow)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 8:12:54 AM

Posts: 305
Joined: 11/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

On this site, we who are not Dominants must identify ourselves as either submissives or slaves, so obviously there is a difference. i'm interested in what you think the difference is...i have my own thoughts on what those differences are, but frequently i see the designations used interchangeably here and everywhere. Made me curious.
Similarly, why is there not a differentiation here between Dominants and Masters? Should there be? Are they indeed one and the same to you?
Your thoughts, please!
Sorry if this question is redunant - i looked for a similar posting, but couldn't find one.

arrow

I have my own definitions such as the differance between submissive/slave, a submissive has her own limits a slave has only the limits I allow her to have. The differance between a Dominant and a Master. I am a Master because I have a collered slave, if for some reason we split then I would just be a Dominant man. Now before I get slated these are my definitions that I use in my relationship what other people call themselves is up to them and I can respect that.

(in reply to arrow)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 10:53:51 AM

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From: Portland oregon
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I may and probably will get "flamed" for this :-)
A "Dom" demands control but often does not want the responsibility of it nor its actions.
A person just by their appearance and demenior can be a "Dom".
A "Dom" is a user and a taker.
They have walls and are often more concerned with how they present themselves to others.
A "Dom" can also be a "Master" wannabe.
They will often have no sence of what it is to be a "Master" in a 24/7 relationship.

A "Master" is one who has earned the gift of a persons submission as a slave.
You cannot be a "Master" without having a "slave".
There are many kinds of collars and to a Master none of them are or can be "velcro".
A "Master" has no safeword for their slave as their submission to them as Master is so complete there is no need for such a thing.

A Dom may have a submissive or a slave but will/could also cheat on them or lie to them or keep things from them. A Master will not and cannot do that as their slave has such a bond to them that there is no need at all to keep such petty things from them.
Total communication and commitment way WAY beyond a vanilla "marrage" is the relationship between a Master and their slave.

There are many many "wannabes" on both sides of the isle. There are many "Doms" and "submissives". There are few "Masters" and even fewer true "slaves".

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to arrow)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 11:21:10 AM

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Might as well add my .02....
Submissive & dominant are personality traits. That simple.
In this little slice of life, they also correspond to sexual/personal interaction roles. One party is the dominant force in the relationship, the other submits & aquieces to the Dominant.

Slaves are "owned", they may or may not be submissively inclined.
Masters own slaves.

No crap about one being better than the other, or more fullfilling, or a graduated process, or even about limits.

Personally, I am a owned dominant masochist. There is nothing submissive about me, but I am enslaved physically & emotionally to Wolf.

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 11:21:27 AM

Hallittlelolita

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i agree with kinkypupper on this one. After all i am a slave and not a submissive and i know the differences as well

Sincerely andie and her Master hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

I may and probably will get "flamed" for this :-)
A "Dom" demands control but often does not want the responsibility of it nor its actions.
A person just by their appearance and demenior can be a "Dom".
A "Dom" is a user and a taker.
They have walls and are often more concerned with how they present themselves to others.
A "Dom" can also be a "Master" wannabe.
They will often have no sence of what it is to be a "Master" in a 24/7 relationship.

A "Master" is one who has earned the gift of a persons submission as a slave.
You cannot be a "Master" without having a "slave".
There are many kinds of collars and to a Master none of them are or can be "velcro".
A "Master" has no safeword for their slave as their submission to them as Master is so complete there is no need for such a thing.

A Dom may have a submissive or a slave but will/could also cheat on them or lie to them or keep things from them. A Master will not and cannot do that as their slave has such a bond to them that there is no need at all to keep such petty things from them.
Total communication and commitment way WAY beyond a vanilla "marrage" is the relationship between a Master and their slave.

There are many many "wannabes" on both sides of the isle. There are many "Doms" and "submissives". There are few "Masters" and even fewer true "slaves".

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 11:52:57 AM

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Very well said!

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/15/2005 1:16:41 PM

grits

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...and of course, for every rule, defination and/or opinion given here you'll find an exception... well, except for..well..you get the idea, i'm sure..lol

Happy thursday, y'all :)

grits

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfspet

Might as well add my .02....
Submissive & dominant are personality traits. That simple.
In this little slice of life, they also correspond to sexual/personal interaction roles. One party is the dominant force in the relationship, the other submits & aquieces to the Dominant.

Slaves are "owned", they may or may not be submissively inclined.
Masters own slaves.

No crap about one being better than the other, or more fullfilling, or a graduated process, or even about limits.

Personally, I am a owned dominant masochist. There is nothing submissive about me, but I am enslaved physically & emotionally to Wolf.

< Message edited by grits -- 9/15/2005 1:24:58 PM >

(in reply to Wolfspet)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/16/2005 3:23:21 PM

Ceyx

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At the risk of repeating what others have said, I'll offer my personal experience.

For miss and I, the move from dominant and submissive to owner and slave was about belonging and trust. As a submissive, miss didn't really belong to me; she was mine in the sense that she was my submissive, but our relationship was based on a contract, a negotiated agreement specifying the boundaries that both of us would observe. She was mine conditionally, upon the observance of that contract, and that was good for us at the time. We both needed clear limits to my possession of her. By the same token, our agreement made clear what I could and couldn't require of her, and I did my best to follow this scrupulously.

As owner and slave, our relationship is based on a bond. She belongs to me now, not conditionally, but simply; I am her Owner, a term about which I could ramble, but won't. She has a place with me, inescapably, and I have a confidante and a devoted lover in her, without fear of removal. We're both happier and more at peace because of this belonging.

Miss still has limits, in the sense that there are things she could be made to do physically and mentally that would create trauma for her. It's simply that she trusts me, as her Owner, to decide upon and look after those limits for her. Such is my love for her that she can feel safe trusting me this way-- I would never do anything to traumatize her-- and the fact that she does trust me so reinforces the love that I feel.

So. For the two of us, the owner/slave dynamic increases our feelings of belonging and the security that comes with it, trust and the love that it both represents and engenders. I don't think that it's better than the dominant/submissive dynamic, just different; there are other sorts of belonging and security involved in that latter dynamic, and we needed them as we were coming to know one another and buliding trust between us.

(in reply to arrow)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/16/2005 7:14:12 PM

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I agree with OsideGirl. I feel like a Sub, because I have control of my Domane all day. Well come to think of it, since I don't have MADAM, I have control "ALL" of the time, but still feel like Sub is a good name for me. I feeel if I was under control for 24/7, then I would consider myself a Slave.

And for OsideGirl, you can't be wrong, with a name like "Bobbi"

Ballet "Bob"

_____________________________

"I get my kicks above the Waistline, Sunshine"

(in reply to arrow)

RE: slave vs. submissive - 9/16/2005 9:05:01 PM

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Joined: 9/18/2004
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quote:

I may and probably will get "flamed" for this :-)
A "Dom" demands control but often does not want the responsibility of it nor its actions.
A person just by their appearance and demenior can be a "Dom".
A "Dom" is a user and a taker.

Not a flame but i do disagree...Dominance is about a persons character.
If someone is a user and a taker, lieing or cheating, he/she is not and never can be dominant. Its the complete opposite.

I also have to disagree with this...
<Interestingly then, in my house, being in a submissive role then is a vacation for my slave because he gets to just float in my authority and doesn't have to think and plan and be active.

Nice job rambling, TammyJo! >>

I consider myself a submissive and you can be assured that i think and plan and am very active in my role to please my partner. I just have more choices than a slave might.

Sincerely,
camigirl

(in reply to BalletBob)

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