RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear

RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (Full Version)

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jeanie239 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 5:14:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: jeanie239 How did Israel, ever, in the eyes of any responsible thinking adult, get away with everything they have over the years and still portray themselves to the United States as if they were "a victim". I'm not going to fly to a dodgy website because you were too lazy to explain what you meant. So I ask: please explain 1. what exactly Israel 'got away with', and 2. when Israel portrayed itself as being a 'victim'. Ok, but we both know I'm wasting my time since you have already made your mind up to support Israel and really you're just asking me to do this so you can instantly type whatever is opposite to it. But let's do it anyway...... Israel has been condemned by over 65 UN resolutions. Now, before you start typing "Oh the UN, they're anti-Israel" etc. etc. etc. please give details as to where any of those resolutions were wrong. I'm too lazy to type up all 65, so you might want to break a personal habit and invest in research unaided.

jeanie239 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 5:19:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Israel is of course not blameless but anyone who has studied the historical record comes away shocked by how much restraint the Israelis have shown. Bless its little heart. That's very decent of it, isn't it. You know when Americans kicked Britain's arse, wasn't that because you wanted a country of your own and you didn't want to be ruled by an alien state? You have a lot in common with the Palestinians. By the way, there are less than 10 Israelis kept prisoner by Palestinians. And nearly 11,000 Palestinians kept prisoner by Israel. Israel has also killed 4 times as many Palestinians as the other way around. So please. Stop with the Israel sob stories. Nobody buys them anymore.

kittinSol -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 5:24:02 AM)
I do not 'support Israel'; I support Israel's right, as a sovereign nation, to go about its business. This is largely hindered by the fact that there is a mini state inside Israel which advocates its destruction.

joanus -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 5:34:08 AM)
Look Israel (and most of the middle east) has been around for thousands of years and it will still be around thousands of years from now. The point is every one in the Middle East has been bitching since the world started. Nothing and no one can or will ever stop the War(s) in the Middle East, it sjust what they do, Pray and Bomb each other.

RealityLicks -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 6:12:42 AM)
Supporting Israel's right to exist is one thing. Supporting it's right to treat Palestians as second class citizens is quite another. Palestinians can never have freedom until the settlers are removed. Israel will never do that. The walls erected by the Israelis, not just between them and Palestinian territory but also between Palestinians can't just be ignored. Neither should systematic daily intimidation and habitual violence at over 500 checkpoints. These are the tactics of Apartheid, not a modern, secular democracy. Collective punishment is abhorrent: cutting off food, water, electricity and medical services to entire neighbourhoods to allegedly capture a single terrorist are grossly abusive measures. Any regime that denies equal rights to dissidents and their communities risks turning them into terrorists. If you adopt the policies of Nazi Germany, expect people to claim you have no right to exist. I have no interest in propaganda from whatever side, so save it. To my mind, the facts of today speak for themselves: Israeli av. income $25000 pa, Palestinian av. income $800pa. No-one chooses to live in such a way; they are forced to do so. Israel sickens me but I am not anti-Israel and certainly not anti-Semitic - just anti-Zionist. The sooner the Israel lobby outside Israel wakes up to the fact that the Zionists have hoodwinked you into pursuing this mad course for their own reasons, your homeland will remain a bloody and shameful war zone. They are dragging your name through the mud and you're so scared of opening your eyes and taking responsibility for the mess that you actually prefer to be their cheerleaders.

caitlyn -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 6:19:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Muttling Actually, that it QUITE incorrect. Your chart does not indicate that Israel is in range of current delivery systems, only potential ones. Everyone is potentially in range of everyone else's "potential" systems. The Kilo is a diesel-electric used mostly for anti-shipping ... and being phased out by the Russians. They might as well have saved time and just purchased coffins. Iran has not "purchased" any Su-30 fighters, or tankers, only discussed the purchase of them. Your statement is incorrect. If they paid for them today (questionable), how long would it take to make them a going concern, given the training of pilots and air crews? Five years perhaps? How do you suppose those green Iranian pilots will stack up against the Israeli air force? By the way ... where were they planning on doing this mid-air refueling? I have no idea what the agenda is, making Iran such a powerhouse enemy. Actually I do know ... Iran comes in handy on both sides. [;)]

kittinSol -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 6:29:03 AM)
I pretty much agree with most of your post - which begs the question: what ever made you think that I supported the ill-treatment of the Palestinians by the state of Israel? Is it because I dared to voice that Israel should be allowed to exist in peace, without constant threats from its neighbours and - let's not forget this! - from within its own territory? You will find, if only you ask, that many are in favour of a peaceful resolution to this conflict, and that I am one of those people. So I ask that you don't presume I support Palestinian oppression when in fact, I am radically opposed to it. Shalom.

batshalom -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 6:41:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 The one thing keeping Iran from pulling the trigger is the United States. ~arched brow~ That's an interesting POV. quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 If we pull out of the mid-east and pull the military threat off the table, there is nothing stopping Iran (and Syria) from starting a war with Israel. Well ... except Israel itself. Look up, among other things, the Six Day War. Read up on Golda Meir, Yitzhak Rabin, and the Mossad. Israel isn't exactly helpless. quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Doesnt the bible predict this will happen eventually? Its supposed to signal the start of the end of days. Like with the Nostradamus quatrains, there is no way to predict specific events until they are past, fitting the circumstances to the literature.

caitlyn -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 6:43:51 AM)
You are not allowed to have a moderate, reasonable opinion on this kSol. Didn't you get the memo? Now, go out and find some websites paid for by lobby groups, and post some links that will fan the flames ... already. [;)]

kittinSol -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 6:55:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn Now, go out and find some websites paid for by lobby groups, and post some links that will fan the flames ... already. [;)] It's a habit I'm trying to break, caitlyn. After all, we can do our own homework.

batshalom -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 7:05:33 AM)
RL, I am not going to debate you on this simply because there is no way to battle an ad ignoratium argument. All I am going to say to you is go live in Israel and then perhaps you will have a more clear understanding of it.

Aubre -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 7:29:10 AM)
I wonder what would happen if Israel decided to rebuild the Temple on some other holy site that wasn't contested. Would the Muslims co-opt that site saying they had some religious claim to it as well? For those that say that the Israelis came and kicked the Palestinians out of what was their country - who occupied that land before the Palestinians? The Jews, until they were kicked out. You can argue who kicked out whom ad infinitum, but I don't see why there is all this whining about Israel when they have this little bitty strip of land and the Arabs/Muslims have so much land available to them. All the Iran rhetoric is about raising money and getting people to support their initiatives (other Muslims). They know that fighting Israel is the quickest way to ensure becoming a parking lot courtesy of the US Navy.

Owner59 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 7:29:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jeanie239 quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: jeanie239 How did Israel, ever, in the eyes of any responsible thinking adult, get away with everything they have over the years and still portray themselves to the United States as if they were "a victim". I'm not going to fly to a dodgy website because you were too lazy to explain what you meant. So I ask: please explain 1. what exactly Israel 'got away with', and 2. when Israel portrayed itself as being a 'victim'. Ok, but we both know I'm wasting my time since you have already made your mind up to support Israel and really you're just asking me to do this so you can instantly type whatever is opposite to it. But let's do it anyway...... Israel has been condemned by over 65 UN resolutions. Now, before you start typing "Oh the UN, they're anti-Israel" etc. etc. etc. please give details as to where any of those resolutions were wrong. I'm too lazy to type up all 65, so you might want to break a personal habit and invest in research unaided. I`d like to know the answers to those questions,also. It`s reasonable to expect that someone back up what they say.Even if it`s a personal opinion or thought. I often make statements that rile and challenge people. But I`m always prepared to defend them and I won`t say something I can`t back up. An argument is a discussion and a discussion requires questions asked and answered and a flow,all be it heated,of information. As soon as you refuse any of that,the debate part ends and the nasty,unproductive part begins.

Owner59 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 7:50:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aubre I wonder what would happen if Israel decided to rebuild the Temple on some other holy site that wasn't contested. Would the Muslims co-opt that site saying they had some religious claim to it as well? For those that say that the Israelis came and kicked the Palestinians out of what was their country - who occupied that land before the Palestinians? The Jews, until they were kicked out. You can argue who kicked out whom ad infinitum, but I don't see why there is all this whining about Israel when they have this little bitty strip of land and the Arabs/Muslims have so much land available to them. All the Iran rhetoric is about raising money and getting people to support their initiatives (other Muslims). They know that fighting Israel is the quickest way to ensure becoming a parking lot courtesy of the US Navy. For those that say that the Israelis came and kicked the Palestinians out of what was their country - who occupied that land before the Palestinians You`re making the best argument possible for the American Indians to kick the non-native people out of America. Unless you`re prepared so say that American Indians have the right to take back their land (after a few hundred years),you can`t say the Jews have the right to take back Palestine(after more than a thousand years). You can`t have it both ways. I find it tragically funny,that there are folks prepared to give someone else`s land and homes away, without a single bit of concern or thought as to the consequences. These same folks would scream like stuck pigs,if their land and home was taken without compensation or consideration. Why wouldn`t the Palestinians do the same thing? Are they worth less?Are they less human?What was it that they did,that they deserve to be treated this way? Why the fuck didn`t Germany carve out a chunk of their land,instead of giving someone else`s land away? We owned the whole show after WWII,and could just of easily have given an Israel sized chuck of Germany to them. Now that, would have been justice.Punishing the Palestinians doesn`t make sense to me.

RealityLicks -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 8:10:52 AM)
There are many Israelis who don't have your narrow, reductionist mindset. I've met quite a few who can no longer bear living in Israel because of the shameful and repugnant manner in which it conducts itself. Perhaps you'll suggest they need to go and live there, too? Cling to your beliefs as you doubtless will; world opinion is simply not with your regime and it is propped up against popular wishes. I have simply expressed my view, I haven't asked you or others to debate with me nor do I wish it. Feel free to comment on my opinion but I seriously doubt that I have much to learn from you.

kittinSol -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 8:13:52 AM)
With goodwill, we can all learn from each other; I'm not sure what set you off to be so indignant against some of the people on this thread.

RealityLicks -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 8:33:46 AM)
As far as I can make out there's no indignance on anyone's part and certainly not on mine. Read again, perhaps you responded precipitously. I simply don't wish to comment further (and lack the time) but I hope you all continue talking.

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 8:43:40 AM)
Fast reply...to no one in particular...Our tiny friend Israel,Hasn't been such an innocent child..WE can't spank her in the eyes of the world But we behind close doors need remined her to not to fan the flames..I agree she has the right to exist and protect herself however the USA must keep a tight hold on the finances and weapons or we may find ourself in the Mother of all battles smile..bounty

Owner59 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 8:58:47 AM)
Well put and reasonable.

kittinSol -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (2/20/2008 9:08:49 AM)
In the end, Israel is there to stay, and the inflammatory rhetoric of those who scream for its destruction serves no purpose other than to perpetuate the cycle of violence. It has always baffled me that it is those who deny its existence that scream for Israel's annihilation. edited: got the wrong verb :-) .

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