RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (Full Version)

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Viridana -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 6:59:04 AM)

I've noticed once too often since I started practicing bdsm, that with some people, in some circles there seems to be a "bdsm-contest" of who's more subby.  Subs looking at slaves and saying that they don't have a mind of their own, slaves looking at subs saying that they lack devotion.

For me... a masochistic bottom who doesn't participate in d/s.... I'm regarded a scum by both sides.


It's weird




camille65 -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 7:12:00 AM)

If I had to squeeze into a labelled box I guess it would be 'submissive pet that is owned'.Translation = I'm just me.[:)]




juliaoceania -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 7:13:00 AM)

You write very well, but I have to say your essay opens up with an assumption that I do not believe is true from my own point of view... not all submissives or slaves struggle to find out what we are. Not all of us have the belief that one category or word is intrinsically better. I am who I am, nothing more or less. Our relationship is what it is. I am who he molds me to be. We do not really care about the labels.




TracyTaken -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 7:17:56 AM)

quote:

I believe the key difference is that a submissive exercises the right to choose to submit whenever asked, forced, coerced, or in a situation to do so. A slave makes one choice in the beginning of the relationship with his or her owner and that choice carries from that point forward.


Until the slave chooses to leave, which seems to be more common than choosing to stay - so there are at least two choices made. 

It's funny to me that the common idea of slave/sub definition is based on lack of choices.  I don't see it that way.




puella -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 7:20:12 AM)

I really really hate this question that, no matter how wordily re-expressed, seems to pop up every other week on these forums.

First I will give you my answer.  I am both.  I am by very nature a woman who is submissive, essentially.  That nature has nothing to do with my owner, per se.  It is an innate quality which is as much a part of the internal make-up of of Jen, just as is my sense of humor, sense of integrity, justice, nurturing, stubbornness, irrational need to feed people until they burst (hehe)...etc etc.  Who I am as an individual is a complex myriad of factors and my being submissive is just one part 'soup'... it is no greater or less important than any other piece of my 'people puzzle'.

Currently, I am owned.  The word slavery denotes ownership and as I have willingly surrendered my rights of complete freedom to another, I am a consensual slave.  How he chooses to utilize, maximize and enjoy that surrender is his right and prerogative.  Slavery requires more than one person.  It is (in the case of consensual lifestyles) a relationship choice, not a matter of identity.  Within the context of my slavery, I am still Jen, submissive, humorous (subjective), nurturing, stubborn, constantly feeding, etc (see above).  The ‘slave’ tag simply acknowledges that I have surrendered (rather than having had it forcibly taken from me as in traditional slavery ‘relationships’) my rights and freedoms to another.  He now has the choice to manipulate that which he desires from me, even regarding how much 'freedom' I am allowed to practice, in order to best meet his needs and maximize the pleasure he takes from me and this relationship.  (That balance and manipulation is as fluid and ever evolving as we as individuals are, I have found.)

Secondly, I will dip into the reason why I hate this question.  I am sure that sometimes it is posed innocently enough, but essentially, it is the sort of probing that is looking for a way to categorize and eventually elevate one type over another.  Many will say that there is no real malice in this line of inquiry but I vehemently disagree.

Whether consciously or subconsciously, it seems we always need or desire for some sort of caste system by which to rise above others, or by which to recognize speedily and definitively the 'value' of others (and/or perhaps self).

There is no hierarchy of self.  This is a question about self....or should be.




daddysprop247 -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 7:59:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

I really really hate this question that, no matter how wordily re-expressed, seems to pop up every other week on these forums.

First I will give you my answer.  I am both.  I am by very nature a woman who is submissive, essentially.  That nature has nothing to do with my owner, per se.  It is an innate quality which is as much a part of the internal make-up of of Jen, just as is my sense of humor, sense of integrity, justice, nurturing, stubbornness, irrational need to feed people until they burst (hehe)...etc etc.  Who I am as an individual is a complex myriad of factors and my being submissive is just one part 'soup'... it is no greater or less important than any other piece of my 'people puzzle'.

Currently, I am owned.  The word slavery denotes ownership and as I have willingly surrendered my rights of complete freedom to another, I am a consensual slave.  How he chooses to utilize, maximize and enjoy that surrender is his right and prerogative.  Slavery requires more than one person.  It is (in the case of consensual lifestyles) a relationship choice, not a matter of identity.  Within the context of my slavery, I am still Jen, submissive, humorous (subjective), nurturing, stubborn, constantly feeding, etc (see above).  The ‘slave’ tag simply acknowledges that I have surrendered (rather than having had it forcibly taken from me as in traditional slavery ‘relationships’) my rights and freedoms to another.  He now has the choice to manipulate that which he desires from me, even regarding how much 'freedom' I am allowed to practice, in order to best meet his needs and maximize the pleasure he takes from me and this relationship.  (That balance and manipulation is as fluid and ever evolving as we as individuals are, I have found.)



wow...puella, you have expressed so eloquently here many of my own ideas and feelings on this subject, now i don't feel quite so odd. :) the submissive v. slave argument has always rather confused and irritated me, the main reason for that being the implied assumption that one cannot be both. imo, submissive is a personality trait, simply the way one naturally expresses themselves and functions in the world, and has nothing to do really with a relationship dynamic. while slave is a status, something one can become, like any other status in life...teacher, lawyer, doctor, etc. i am a submissive person who is owned, making me a slave.

the hierarchy many seem to feel within all of these labels (bottom, submissive, slave) is another unfortunate thing. a slave is no better, more devoted, more "subbier" than a (happily) unowned submissive, and a submissive no better than a bottom. the fact is simply that we are all different, in many cases VERY different, and we are not necessarily able to relate to one another as well as some may think. the problem i think stems partially from the fact that we are all considered to be under this one big umbrella of BDSM, implying we share a way of life, point of view, state of being, etc., when the reality is that oftentimes we do not. maybe if we give up this guise of oneness we can start accepting and appreciating one another for who and what we really are, and perhaps there can be a lot more understanding and respect all the way round.




givingin -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 8:13:31 AM)

I really think Puella said it very well.

I consider myself submissive at times, other times I prefer complete control, both in life and in relationships.  I am also a slave because I have given myself over to another by choice.  The defines of my slavery are probably different than say, daddysprop(not a bash, an observation).  While control is given over, I am allowed tons of freedom in my choices and actions.  It's not so much who I was born to be, as who I was born to be with him.  He does have eventual control over things and the final answer.  Just an example, I would like to be shared with another dominant (a fantasy I have of being shared)..he doesn't want to share, he is selfish having me as his and honestly loves me too much to see me with someone else (other than women, and then he doesn't watch).  So, I would never go against his ultimate wishes and when he does put his foot down, I take it very seriously and do what he requests.

It all sounds complicated, but in reality (our reality) it is very simple and works fine for us.




ryssa -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 10:01:47 AM)

I have a submissive personality, but I believe only a particular type of man could determine me slave.  As it was stated elsewhere on these CM forums, it is the man that defines what his girl is in his life.  It is his will (or lack there of) that determines if he is capable of putting her on her knees and holding her there and to what degree of submission she will serve him with.  Unfortunately, IMO, the type of man whose will is strong enough to hold one in “slavery”, is rare. Again, this is just my opinion :)

ryssa




solvr70 -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 10:11:43 AM)

does being a bottom at present, but one day hoping to be a submissive to the right Woman make sense as an alternative answer?




sweetwenchie -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 10:18:14 AM)

if i have to be labeled, i prefer  Daddy's little whore  thank you [;)]    now would that make me submissive, slave, or none of the above?   Hate trying to fit into some pre defined box, as so many others have said...  i'm me.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 10:57:27 AM)

quote:

 I wouldn’t be surprised if every submissive-wired (or even switch-wired) individual heard the question at one point or another inquiring whether they are a slave or a submissive, especially if you are looking for a relationship on whatever level that meets your needs...


actually, what He asked was..."Are you submissive, or do you get off fantasizing about being submissive?"
 
this slave's answer was, "both."

[:)]




petpete -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 3:22:43 PM)

In fantasy all subs would wish to be slaves.. Living has more responsibilities then just bd&sm.... i don't think there is a perfect D out there of which i could totally count on taking care of my natural life nor do i expect that. In order to go on in life submissives are people to and they need to use there heads and see where they are lead and who they are lead by.. Natural beauty is not enough to make any submissive feel secure about there lifes outcome.. There has been a number of times i had to step in as i witnessed disturbing facts in my ex Mistress about where Her own life was leading and i still practically doing that even as W/we parted. i wish i never had to do so as it is quite a turn off to become assertive but when it concerns well being and life's living issues i think a submissive will need to alert the person who he cares for.




DiurnalVampire -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 3:31:13 PM)

Fox and Angel are both my slaves.  They choose to be with me and to follow me. They would do the same if they were submissives. There are many eloquently written things on this forum, all pointing to essentially the same thing.  There is no one size fits all defenition of a slave.
Angel is a slave. He does not obey 24/7, he does not attend to me at my whim, he has priorities above me (school and work) and he makes decisions when he does and doesnt wish to play. He is still a slave.
Fox is a slave. He does housework without question. He decides when he would like to visit. He helps with the shopping, cooking, does most of the cleaning and helps with the driving when we go out. He never says no to playtime, although he knows he has that right. He and Angel are polar opposites in attitude and behavior. He is still a slave.

The person defines the role, the role does not define the person.

DV




TracyTaken -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 3:33:13 PM)

quote:

In fantasy all subs would wish to be slaves.


They would not.  I find the idea of people owning people to be unappealing, but different strokes ...




Paulsgirl -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 4:40:25 PM)

How's about a slub?

it's a cross between a slave, a sub and a slut......

or a club?

that's a cross between a cave and anything else that strikes the imagination.....tired....just way way way way too tired of dragging these labels around my neck, as well as a collar as that weighs enough (heheheheh) as it is............




Redoubt -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 4:55:08 PM)

A label we assign to something or someone is not the end of understanding them, just an attempt at a beginning.







MidMichCowboy -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 5:04:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulsgirl

How's about a slub?

it's a cross between a slave, a sub and a slut......

or a club?

that's a cross between a cave and anything else that strikes the imagination.....tired....just way way way way too tired of dragging these labels around my neck, as well as a collar as that weighs enough (heheheheh) as it is............



So, would that make me a GenCowDomarian   (Gentleman   Cowboy  Dom  Barbarian) ?




flowerinyourhand -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 5:17:56 PM)

I am what Master tells me I am [:)]




christine1 -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 8:03:10 PM)

hard to answer this question....there are no clear cut definitions for slave or submissive and i don't fit either one exclusively...




HerLord -> RE: Are you a slave or are you a submissive? (2/21/2008 8:06:15 PM)

I think we have a winner! A slub for me plz... oh wait hangon... slut... yup, sub... yup, slave... yup. Hey wait, I do have one of those...
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulsgirl

How's about a slub?

it's a cross between a slave, a sub and a slut......

or a club?

that's a cross between a cave and anything else that strikes the imagination.....tired....just way way way way too tired of dragging these labels around my neck, as well as a collar as that weighs enough (heheheheh) as it is............





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