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Domestic service and power exchange - 9/25/2005 6:11:50 AM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

When I hear about subs and Dom/mes who seek domestic service positions and nothing in return (intimacy, play) I've had questions about the following:

-Where do you get that feeling of power exchange in your arrangement? Is it just understood?
-How does one determine that they are serving as a submissive vs. someone who just cleans house like any person working for a housecleaning service when there is very little other interaction?
-What do you as a dominant get out of it, other than a clean house?

My D/s relationships have always been heavy on the BDSM side of things, and domestic service was not always on the top of my list of things that I required from a sub. I haven't yet had a live-in situation, so perhaps my view would change at that time, but for now, I would have difficulty stating that I wanted a sub simply to clean my house and for nothing else. Sure, there are subs who enjoy doing just that, but I wonder how they get past that feeling of wanting more. I've always had a bit of an issue with Dommes who say they need a sub to wash their car, when simply asking someone to wash their car would probably get the same results, without the person being submissive.

I look forward to your comments,
Julie

Post #: 1

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 9/25/2005 7:11:49 AM

ScooterTrash

Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I agree it would be somewhat one sided. We always seek service oriented sub/slaves, but to subject them to absolutely no other aspect of BDSM seems a bit calloused to me. We do believe in interaction, but expect it to be something that evolves along with some emotional bond. I guess the service part is a simple way of bringing them in as a useful part of the family and then building on it from there. As for any exchange they get from the service itself..we don't require they work outside the home and everything they need is provided, so anyone trying to escape the stresses of making ends meet or just simple survival, leave all of that behind...so it's not just a one way street. I usually word it as I prefer someone who is service oriented and have their kinks as a secondary requirement. In my personal opinion, building a relationship on kinks first, is no different than trying to go off of appearance alone, so we try to work on the premise that they are a whole person first, and add value to our family instantly due to their service. Again..different strokes for different folks.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 2

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 9/25/2005 7:51:24 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I can think of a couple of things to make the power exchange clearer in a more domestic only service situation.

Have a collar you put on the sub/slave before they begin work.

Have a uniform of some type they wear while serving in this fashion.

Sit down and give them a list of what you expect done.

Inspect the work afterwards -- reward verbally or insist it be redone.

Do pop inspections as the work is being done -- praise good work and point out unfinished work.

I think you can even work on other forms of praise and reward for good work. I think the biggest difference between a maid service or house cleaning service is the money and the fact that when you pay, I don't personally think that gives the right to "reward or punish" -- that would be up to the company you made the hire through or you can simply cancel the service.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 3

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 9/25/2005 9:59:14 AM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

Well here's my personal nightmare come true; a Man who wants housework and no sex...LMAO. i would do "service" but it would be things such as bringing Him coffee, etc., not housework; that's what maids are for.

pinkpleasures

_____________________________

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 4

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 9/25/2005 10:46:16 AM

slavedesires

Posts: 669
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline

What about male subs who want "no strings" house cleaning?

I have discovered the "no strings" also means... "listen sub/slave girl, i will clean your house IF...you humiliate me, i do it naked with a collar and leash while you whip me...blah,blah, blah" This mentality i do not understand. If i have a list of chores for a male sub who approaches me saying no strings attached i dont think i should follow them around with a whip and leash...but i would take come of TammyJo's suggestions.

_____________________________

i speak only my personal opinion, sometimes O/ours.

"i am the keeper of fragile things and i have kept what is indisolvable."
....the greatest gift.....vulnerability

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 5

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 9/25/2005 11:31:15 AM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

i will clean your house IF...you humiliate me, i do it naked with a collar and leash while you whip me...blah,blah, blah" This mentality i do not understand. If i have a list of chores for a male sub who approaches me saying no strings attached i dont think i should follow them around with a whip and leash...

Thank you so very much!!!

quote:

I would have difficulty stating that I wanted a sub simply to clean my house and for nothing else. Sure, there are subs who enjoy doing just that, but I wonder how they get past that feeling of wanting more. I've always had a bit of an issue with Dommes who say they need a sub to wash their car, when simply asking someone to wash their car would probably get the same results, without the person being submissive.

I could ask one of my kids to do and they might, if they had time, I could also pay someone to do as well... the simple truth is it's the mental stimulation that a submissive does it out of a desire to make me happy. Cleaning my home is also the same, I know that they do it to please me. In return I show a great deal of pride in what they have done and continue to do. I praise them, to their face and to others. I make sure they know just how important what they do is to me. Would I do that with paid domestic help? Hell no, the pay check is enough.

What do I get out of it besides a clean house? I get the mental stimulation in knowing that this person not only wishes to see me happy, but it is their goal to make me happy and make me proud of them. I don't see it as a one way street, I see it as everyone getting what they want out of it.

I'm not saying there is NO BDSM involved.... if all I wanted out of life was a clean house, I can do that.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to slavedesires)

Post #: 6

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 9/25/2005 3:21:16 PM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

argh. just typed a post and lost it.

here i go again;
FOR ALL HERE;
from wolfie
--------------------
"I".........AM no strings domestics service.
i do not have fetishes so i am NOT a do-me-boy.
i have NO sex OR romance because She is married.
so WTF am i doing here?
SHE cares if i live or die. NO ONE ELSE ... EVER has. my elders didnt want me. my teachers hated me. my wives were a damned joke.

so THIS is why i am dedicated to HER and HER only.
SHE controls MY money, and my daily life..from when i wake to bedtime. SHE cares about me emotionally.. mentally and physically.
and HER answer here is;
SHE said to type in;
"She is happy because She gets the-control"

wolfie
any questions will be answered if you do not understand something.

thank you

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 7

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 9/25/2005 3:32:15 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

I agree with wolfie's Ms. Laura, I have the control. I don't need to engage in fetish play to feel like I'm in control. When I'm instructing toy in something I need done, however mundane the task may be, I know she will do it because she's mine to command. It's an intangible, but very real, energy that we share simply because we're owner and owned. Having managed employees and worked with contractors and service-providers employed by third-party entities, I can say that the dynamic is fundamentally different.
Timothy

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 8

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 5:05:53 AM

MistressMelissa

Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

Greetings,

I think Timothy hit the nail on the head. It's about control and the power exchange. I can get kinky and swing a flogger anytime I wish, but to have someone want to obey me and to put my needs before their own, now that's a rush.
The service oriented slave to me is the true gem. To thrive purley on the exchange of power between what the dominant desires and the slaves desire to please, coupled with the reward of praise from the owner. That's a power flow of the purest form.

What do I provide my property? Structure, security and the knowledge that someone cares about them. Structure provides the world they need to function in. They have to know that their world is governed by rules. That there are consequences for failing to perform. They find security in clearly knowing exactly what is expected of them. That there is routine to their day. A time to get up, chores to be done, a word of praise for a job well done, a smile on their owner face for something done well and a bed time to bring closure to their day. An escape from the outside world. They have no bills to pay, their clothing, food etc is provided for them. Their sole concern to their service to me. Much like a monks life is dedicated to the service of god, a slave dedicates their efforts toward their owner.

All I can do is build the world they need to live in. They in return find an inner peace the rest of use may never understand. I can see it in them, I know it's there. The only thing special about me is that I have provided this place of safety that they may be who it is they wish to be. I can't help it that this is a hard concept for modern society to accept but reality says differently.

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

(in reply to domtimothy46176)

Post #: 9

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 5:20:42 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

The information provided is far too scanty to offer a comprehensive reply (ie: real relationships are typically far more complicated than simply "domestic service"). However, presuming for the moment that all that exists is the domestic service itself, I'd say that they're engaging in a scene (domestic service being no different than a flogging or anything else... just something enjoyable for both, engaged in for a finite period of time).

Can there be control inherent to domestic service? Absolutely. It might be the control similar to directing an "employee", or a punishment (more control), or a reward for those who enjoy it (control yet again) or merely a responsibility within a household (presuming someone makes them responsible for it, yet more control).

Question is, is the domestic service an expression of the ongoing control inherent to the relationship (denoting a power exchange relationship), or simply something done for mutual pleasure over a given time frame (denoting a scene).

John

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 10

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 6:16:36 AM

NYDiscipline

Posts: 22
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

It seems to me that wanting a submissive to perform "service" oriented tasks is more of a Mistress thing than what your average male Dom looks for. Perhaps it's because as a woman, history has stereotyped them into the role of "housekeeper" and such. (Easy ladies...not saying I agree with it....it's just an observation based on the world we live in...)

Given this historical observation, I would assume that the Domme feels a sense of satisfaction in breaking this stereotype- a feeling of power because she is turning the tables.

In a 24/7 setting, I could understand the Dom wanting such a setting as well.

However, personally- If I want a maid- I'll hire one. I have much better uses for a good submissive than scrubbing my floors...

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 11

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 6:36:39 AM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

NYDiscipline
=============
exactly how many vanilla maids are going to be solely dedicated to Your every whim and desire and want to please You in every facet of life?
how many vanilla maids take the time to know how You want Your coffee or Your breakfast or any other meal?
how many vanilla maids are going to care that You have clean clothes 365 days out of the year?

how many vanilla maids care about You....period?

You ARE..........entitled to Your feelings. but i feel You are missing something warm and wonderful.

best wishes

wolf

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to NYDiscipline)

Post #: 12

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 7:08:31 AM

hawk58

Posts: 51
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline

I dont think its a mostly mistress thing for a dominant to want a submissive who actually submits, outside of the bedroom. Not that the bedroom submissive is a bad thing. But I too like my house run smoothly, kept tidy, and my needs met, knowing I come 1 in the lives of those beneath me.

Like Melissa, I provide my sub/slave with care, structure, financial security, emotional, physical, and medical needs. I provide structure, guidence, disciplene, etc. Yes, while I want a slave or submissive to do the service oriented tasks in the house, I still do enjoy giving them affection, and comfort too. On occassion when it pleases me, I do play with my property, for the sake of both our pleasures, or to reward them for service well done.

I get real charge out of knowing, when I call home at lunch time, and say..."I want_________for dinner, and I want the van cleaned out before I get home." and knowing when I come home, its done.

Dove has said time and again, its my dominace and the structure and disciplene I provide, that keeps her bound to me more tightly than any restraints I could physically put on her.

_____________________________

-Sir Hawk

Master of dove's Haven

"True Power/Control is knowing that You have the ability to use it, but choose not to."

Hearts in Service:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeartsInService/

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 13

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 8:05:14 AM

NYDiscipline

Posts: 22
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline

lonewolf- I may very well be missing something "warm and wonderful"...

But then again- I think service fits better in a 24/7 situation. And I don't pay a maid to "care about me"- she's hired help- very simple. Clean, get paid, get out.

To each his own. I'm glad you enjoy that type of thing- but I still encounter more women who want it than men.

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 14

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 8:58:33 AM

LadyJulieAnn

Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline

Thank you all for your input so far. I've always understood that domestic service can be a vital part of a power exchange relationship, and my questions came more from seeing profiles and talking with submissives who claim to need "nothing" in return. It is obvious to me that there is most likely going to be something that one is getting from a situation like that, whether it's structure, praise, or security.

It appears that the majority of responses were from people involved in ongoing relationships, and I would expect that the relationships are indeed fulfilling for everyone involved. I agree with Rover that perhaps many of the situations I had encountered were in fact "scenes" being played out, where the sub comes over, dresses in a maid's outfit, and cleans the house on a Saturday. I can understand how those situations can be fulfilling as well, but I would add that both parties would most likely have some sort of arrangement ahead of time where there was an understanding of a power exchange throughout the experience.

I've come across some people who use the title of dominant to get free labor, much in the same way some use that title to get money from submissives, and had that idea in the back of my mind when I posted my original questions. I wonder if those subs who claim to need nothing in return are subs who end up in those situations.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 15

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 9:11:21 AM

ImpGrrl

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn

-Where do you get that feeling of power exchange in your arrangement? Is it just understood?

It's about the giving and taking of orders, the giving and receiving of service. For some, that's enough, always. For others, that's enough, sometimes. For still others, it's never enough.

quote:

-How does one determine that they are serving as a submissive vs. someone who just cleans house like any person working for a housecleaning service when there is very little other interaction?

In an honest arrangement, it's agreed upon ahead of time.

If it's not explicit and agreed upon, one person is having a nice fantasy while the other cleans their house/gets a clean house - but it's not really power exchange.

quote:

-What do you as a dominant get out of it, other than a clean house?

The giving of orders. The receiving of service.

quote:

Sure, there are subs who enjoy doing just that, but I wonder how they get past that feeling of wanting more.

If that's what they want out of it, whether that's all they *ever* want or that's all they want *at the time*, then there *is* no "wanting more". If they haven't been honest about what they want, or if they're playing martyr, too bad for them.

quote:

I've always had a bit of an issue with Dommes who say they need a sub to wash their car, when simply asking someone to wash their car would probably get the same results, without the person being submissive.

It doesn't *feel* the same. It's not always about the end result - sometimes the "end" is really the means.

H

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 16

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 9:16:05 AM

ImpGrrl

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I can think of a couple of things to make the power exchange clearer in a more domestic only service situation.

Have a collar you put on the sub/slave before they begin work.

Have a uniform of some type they wear while serving in this fashion.

Sit down and give them a list of what you expect done.

Inspect the work afterwards -- reward verbally or insist it be redone.

Do pop inspections as the work is being done -- praise good work and point out unfinished work.

I think you can even work on other forms of praise and reward for good work. I think the biggest difference between a maid service or house cleaning service is the money and the fact that when you pay, I don't personally think that gives the right to "reward or punish" -- that would be up to the company you made the hire through or you can simply cancel the service.

That's only if you want to *make* it kinky. It's not necessary, if you're truly only looking to give/receive good service.

It's important to work these things out ahead of time amongst all parties. The s-tupe might not *want* it to be kinky - they may just want to provde the service. The d-type might not *want* to do "pop inspections, or provide a collar or punishments - they may just want to receive the service.

Praise is usually good, paid or unpaid - unless it's unwanted.

H

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 17

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 12:15:38 PM

theRose4U

Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

exactly how many vanilla maids are going to be solely dedicated to Your every whim and desire and want to please You in every facet of life?
how many vanilla maids take the time to know how You want Your coffee or Your breakfast or any other meal?
how many vanilla maids are going to care that You have clean clothes 365 days out of the year?

how many vanilla maids care about You....period?

You ARE..........entitled to Your feelings. but i feel You are missing something warm and wonderful

Well said wolfie. Your level of service & devotion is hard to duplicate. Liver treat??

(in reply to lonewolf05)

Post #: 18

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 12:42:32 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

-Where do you get that feeling of power exchange in your arrangement? Is it just understood?
-How does one determine that they are serving as a submissive vs. someone who just cleans house like any person working for a housecleaning service when there is very little other interaction?
-What do you as a dominant get out of it, other than a clean house?

I look at the domestic-service slave as one whose role in the household is a combination of housekeeper, lady's maid and valet. They do not simply keep the house clean and tidy, but assist the Master and Mistress in more personal areas as well. Physical intimacy MAY play a role in the slave's position, but it is not a requirement of the owners, nor is it necessarily a need for the slave. It's not the driving force behind why the slave chooses a life of domestic servitude.

I know one slave personally, whose sole purpose in life is to maintain her Master's house. She is not played with. She is the low girl on the totem pole (despite her having been with him longer than any of the other girls. And she quite emphatically stated to me that if her owner were to ever tell her he loved her, she'd be out the door. Her pleasure is derived from knowing she keeps an immaculately clean house, and she is proud of who she is. So is he, and that's all she needs and wants.

For Master and myself, although we seek a domestic-service slave, that slave's responsibilities would definitely reach beyond merely helping me keep house. They would also be my companion, as well as my property, particularly since Master is gone on the road twelve days at a time. Would we play together? Probably, but that's not our main focus.

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)

Post #: 19

RE: Domestic service and power exchange - 10/1/2005 3:43:55 PM

MistressMelissa

Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

Denise, I believe I know of the slave you speak and what a gem she is. To witness her devotion to her Master is something to behold. I realize that for many people to comprehend such devotion and self satisfaction is a rare trait indeed.

Rover, For the services my boy provides me to be considered a scene I could consider an insult to his service. It is my understanding that unless one was to witness and see for themselves the dynamics of the relationship you may not be able to comprehend it. It is probably hard to understand but it is I who provide a service to my slave. I provide a unique world for him to live in. Some people just have a need to serve. The clergy is full of them. Some people just are not meant for the clergy but they may still have a need to serve. I provide them with somewhere to serve. By being able to serve someone they find peace and happiness. Yes, this is 24/7 365 days a year live in postition. They are at my disposal for any need I might have. It is way beyond employee/employer relationship. I don't understand why everyone believes that Ds has to be about kink or sex. Dominance and submission, seems pretty simple, I dominate and they submit to me. Nope I don't see anything in there about sex or kink. If I dominate aka control their life and they submit aka allow me to control their life and I use them in what ever manner I have need of, it would seem to meet the definition of Ds to me.

If you do a chore for a elderly neighbor do you feel better about yourself? Did it really matter who you helped or how you helped, but that someone needed help and you where able to help them? There are a select few slaves that although they might enjoy a little play time now and then, they really just long to know that they were of service to someone and that they were able to make that persons life a little happier.

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 20

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