RE: makeup or no makeup (Full Version)

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CanisMajor -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 7:08:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut
What was the most bothersome of this whole thing was not even this poor man's misguided "experiment", but that so many people here just behaved as though because he was "master", he must be right.


Some seem to have behaved that way, and it is galling. Gives the rest a bad name, I'm afraid. I'm glad the OP has had a good and revealing discussion with her ex and has taken the appropriate steps. It just goes to show how important it is to be empathic and open in a relationship. I still don't pretend to fully understand what the OP has gone through, but based on her latest posting some of what was previously a mystery to me has been cleared up, and it sounds to me as though she's made the right decision.

One of the big ethical red flags to me is the amount and importance of the stuff that the ex did behind the OP's back. If I'm planning to engage in a course of action that might change how I feel about a submissive (or even just a vanilla friend), that's the sort of thing I'll disclose. Clearly medical history and its associated emotional effects are very important elements of a person's makeup (no pun intended), and that's not the sort of thing that I'd go poking around without discussing it first. There's no harm I can see that can come from saying something like "I know you had _____itis, and I don't really understand all of what that could mean to you, so I'd like to do some reading and talk to some knowledgeable people about it." What you do from there depends on a lot of things - maybe the person supports your course of action, maybe not, but at least you've started out with an honest expression of interest and intent, and aren't hiding anything.


quote:

ORIGINAL: CanisMajor

Now, my opinion about the OP's situation does not matter. As far as I can tell, neither does yours. Neither of us know her (as far as I can tell), nor can we be certain we actually know all the facts and motives at issue.


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

Actually, one of us has come to know her, and when I posted about his "games" it was after it was discovered that "games" was indeed what was going on, and posted with the OP's full permission.


That's fine, and I'm glad you were there to help her. I certainly hadn't caught that you knew the poster nor that you had special information about the situation the rest of us didn't. I appreciate that you didn't lord this advantage over the rest of us as though we were supposed to be able to guess at what wasn't apparent.



Hallittlelolita -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 11:04:25 AM)

i am not saying it is a question of makeup preferences. All i am saying is that my Master does not have a no makeup rule, even though He prefers me with none. i do not wear any around the house when it is just Us/us. Somtimes when We/we go somwhere He tells me to put a little on and fix up. So i do what He says but He dosent tell me all the time though. All Masters are different some like Their slaves or subs to wear makeup some dont it is all a matter of choice for the Master. i hope i have clarified the subject for you Focus50.[;)][:)]

Sincerely andie and her Master Hal



plantlady64 -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 11:36:28 AM)

Hello There,
I of course am going to give you my personal opinion on this so if I offend anyone please forgive me in advance.

I think those women who feel they are not attractive without make up on have some growing to do. I stopped wearing make up over ten years ago. I feel if people only accept me when I'm showing a fake face to them then they are not the type of people I want as friends anyway. BEAUTY COMES FROM WITHIN!!! NOT FROM A BOTTLE!!!
I know the blotches may bother you, and people may look at you and ask questions, but so what. That can't hurt you unless you let it. No one can change how you feel except if you permit them to.

I also feel like it's well within your Dom's rights to ask you to wear or not wear things that appeal to him. It's the same as being willing to wear certain clothing for him in my opinion. I personally don't expect to be on board and happy about following all my Masters desires of me but I would do them willingly to please him as soon as he lets me know what he desires.
Dom/Master = the right to decide what's best for you both and what path you take.
sub/slave = willingness to submit to the wishes of your Dom/Master out of the bond of trust the two of you have that he'll take proper care of you.

If my Master came home today and told me I had to wear make up like Tammy Faye Baker I would hate to do it, but I'd go buy the junk and put it on my face for him right away. He can override my choice to not wear make up any time he chooses. He's my Master, I want to please him and be appealing to him. I am not concerned more about what strangers think of me than what my Master does. If he likes it, I want to do it period.

Overall I don't think asking you to go without make up is being mean or trying to injure you. I think to me he loves you and wants you to see the beautiful natural creature you are inside that he sees. He may feel you need to boost your own self-confidence and not be so concerned with the blemishes.

I would trust he's trying to free you from your chains and liberate you from the opinion you're not attractive without stuff on your face.


Sincerely,
sub suzanne



JustaTop -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 11:42:54 AM)

Make up is cool.

Especially fun to take a sub to the mall all done up in "clown face"..... but a regular outfit otherwise-who knew?

Or you can go with the overdone "evengalist whore" routine...yanno ,the one that looks like tammy faye baker did it up,drunk? Scarey.[;)]

Great fun for frightening small children.



maybemaybenot -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 1:00:31 PM)

Again.. a big thank you to all of you on both sides of the fence. I did use many thoughts in forming my presentation, discussion with my " former" Dominant. Many of the thoughts/ideas were shared privately in e mail and mean<t> alot to me. Special thanx to FLBS for staying up with me one night and just being a friend doing girl things. ~ wink ~

Plantlady:

You are entitled to your opinion. I would be pretty thin skinned if I took offense to something a stranger wrote negatively about what they percieve as me having some growing to do. I ask you to take my comments in a similar fashion.

First of all, let me say you have a lovely picture of yourself in your profile and avatar. I wonder why that is..... I wonder why you didn't use a pic of you in a pair of sweats, hair in a do rag, no cleavage and without showing off your tatoo... Could it be you wanted to present yourself in an attractive way on this board ? Or was it Mastetr told me I had to use this one and I follow orders. Which of course would be very convenient and fit right in to the theory that < most> every one likes to present themselves in a positive light.

you write:
****I feel if people only accept me when I'm showing a fake face to them then they are not the type of people I want as friends anyway.***

Sheeeeeeeeeessshhhhhhhhhh.. I have parroted myself on this one a few times, please read back and look for my make up use in regards to my friends, my family and in my home. < Hint:.. i already go without make up at home and with my friends >

you write:
***I would trust he's trying to free you from your chains and liberate you from the opinion you're not attractive without stuff on your face.***


Did you read my last post? Was it unclear? Let me re cap in case you missed it. He does NOT think I look better without makeup. He told me so flat out.. no qualms, honestly and truthfully. His entire request had little to do with me and more about himself and his insecurities. And what's more...... he was not TRUTHFUL with me.

Truthfulness and Trustworthiness is not a characteristic soley expected of the submissive < in my world>

You know what? I am not going to repeat myself.. go back and read my last post.
If he can see where he was flawed in his request and you can't.. so be it. < page 5 of this thread, 2/3 of the way down>

There is a line about following blindly , and having to be blind to do so... consider it for it's deeper meaning.


you write:

***Dom/Master = the right to decide what's best for you both and what path you take.
sub/slave = willingness to submit to the wishes of your Dom/Master out of the bond of trust the two of you have that he'll take proper care of you. ***

I was unaware there was an absolute definition of these terms. But I do recognize the "trust" word, and it was broken.

As for me, or anyone else having some growing to do.. I certainly hope I always continue to grow.. when one stops growing " death" settles in... not necessarily the absolute physical death of the body.. if you get my drift.



maybemaybenot


A PS to everyone reading: My words may seem harsh in regards to former Dominant, but the truth is.. I am saddened and disappointed that he did not have the strength to come to me, and have an honest, open discussion and that he tried to use years of work I have done on myself, and continue to do and twist it into something it never was. I feel very badly for him because he is hurting also, he is not particularly happy with how he behaved. He recognizes his own weakness in this situation, and I am sure for a Dominant, that is a very bitter pill to swallow.
Two people lost here.... I doubt two people will lose the lesson however. And that is the best that can come from it.



ownedjulia -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 4:31:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

Hello There,
I of course am going to give you my personal opinion on this so if I offend anyone please forgive me in advance.

I think those women who feel they are not attractive without make up on have some growing to do. I stopped wearing make up over ten years ago. I feel if people only accept me when I'm showing a fake face to them then they are not the type of people I want as friends anyway. BEAUTY COMES FROM WITHIN!!! NOT FROM A BOTTLE!!!
I know the blotches may bother you, and people may look at you and ask questions, but so what. That can't hurt you unless you let it. No one can change how you feel except if you permit them to.

I also feel like it's well within your Dom's rights to ask you to wear or not wear things that appeal to him. It's the same as being willing to wear certain clothing for him in my opinion. I personally don't expect to be on board and happy about following all my Masters desires of me but I would do them willingly to please him as soon as he lets me know what he desires.
Dom/Master = the right to decide what's best for you both and what path you take.
sub/slave = willingness to submit to the wishes of your Dom/Master out of the bond of trust the two of you have that he'll take proper care of you.

If my Master came home today and told me I had to wear make up like Tammy Faye Baker I would hate to do it, but I'd go buy the junk and put it on my face for him right away. He can override my choice to not wear make up any time he chooses. He's my Master, I want to please him and be appealing to him. I am not concerned more about what strangers think of me than what my Master does. If he likes it, I want to do it period.

Overall I don't think asking you to go without make up is being mean or trying to injure you. I think to me he loves you and wants you to see the beautiful natural creature you are inside that he sees. He may feel you need to boost your own self-confidence and not be so concerned with the blemishes.

I would trust he's trying to free you from your chains and liberate you from the opinion you're not attractive without stuff on your face.


Sincerely,
sub suzanne


I've had to agree with this 100%

My master generally picks what i wear and has in the past dictated how my makeup should be worn. he is my Master. that's his right




mistoferin -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 5:12:35 PM)

Is anyone actually reading this thread or do you just read the first post and respond?



ownedjulia -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 5:22:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Is anyone actually reading this thread or do you just read the first post and respond?


I read bits of it and responded to a post that I agreed with.




mistoferin -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 6:07:39 PM)

Well first my post was not singling you out....there have been a number of posts that have fallen way off of the mark since the OP has revealed some of the communication that took place between herself and her Dominant that revealed that the make up issue was merely a smokescreen that was hiding the much deeper issue.

Well if you had read it you would have seen that this really had nothing to do with make up, it had nothing to do with a Master/slave or Dom/sub dynamic.....what it really had to do with was an individuals fears of dealing with a chronic illness and his ability or lack thereof to deal with that situation long term.



OsideGirl -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/5/2005 6:10:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

I think those women who feel they are not attractive without make up on have some growing to do.
There's a difference between feeling unattractive and having permanent marks and facial scarring from a life threatening disease.


quote:

I know the blotches may bother you, and people may look at you and ask questions, but so what. That can't hurt you unless you let it. No one can change how you feel except if you permit them to.
From a psychological stand point this is wrong. It effects how you get treated as a person. Try going through life with people ignoring you and treating you like you're mentally handicapped because of how you look. Whether you want it to or not, it will effect you.

quote:

Dom/Master = the right to decide what's best for you both and what path you take.
sub/slave = willingness to submit to the wishes of your Dom/Master out of the bond of trust the two of you have that he'll take proper care of you.
Sometimes the best way to be a good Dominant is to understand that are areas that you have no clue about it. Unless, that Dominant is a trained counselor, it's best to leave areas of high emotional distress alone. I have a pretty good grasp on how my car runs, but I have enough sense to leave the repairs to someone who knows what they're doing.


quote:

Overall I don't think asking you to go without make up is being mean or trying to injure you. I think to me he loves you and wants you to see the beautiful natural creature you are inside that he sees. He may feel you need to boost your own self-confidence and not be so concerned with the blemishes.

I would trust he's trying to free you from your chains and liberate you from the opinion you're not attractive without stuff on your face.
Nope, actually per her post. This turned about how re-occurance of her illness would effect HIM and he used her as a guinea pig to find out.






FLButtSlut -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/6/2005 4:13:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedjulia


quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

Hello There,
I of course am going to give you my personal opinion on this so if I offend anyone please forgive me in advance.

I think those women who feel they are not attractive without make up on have some growing to do. I stopped wearing make up over ten years ago. I feel if people only accept me when I'm showing a fake face to them then they are not the type of people I want as friends anyway. BEAUTY COMES FROM WITHIN!!! NOT FROM A BOTTLE!!!
I know the blotches may bother you, and people may look at you and ask questions, but so what. That can't hurt you unless you let it. No one can change how you feel except if you permit them to.

I also feel like it's well within your Dom's rights to ask you to wear or not wear things that appeal to him. It's the same as being willing to wear certain clothing for him in my opinion. I personally don't expect to be on board and happy about following all my Masters desires of me but I would do them willingly to please him as soon as he lets me know what he desires.
Dom/Master = the right to decide what's best for you both and what path you take.
sub/slave = willingness to submit to the wishes of your Dom/Master out of the bond of trust the two of you have that he'll take proper care of you.

If my Master came home today and told me I had to wear make up like Tammy Faye Baker I would hate to do it, but I'd go buy the junk and put it on my face for him right away. He can override my choice to not wear make up any time he chooses. He's my Master, I want to please him and be appealing to him. I am not concerned more about what strangers think of me than what my Master does. If he likes it, I want to do it period.

Overall I don't think asking you to go without make up is being mean or trying to injure you. I think to me he loves you and wants you to see the beautiful natural creature you are inside that he sees. He may feel you need to boost your own self-confidence and not be so concerned with the blemishes.

I would trust he's trying to free you from your chains and liberate you from the opinion you're not attractive without stuff on your face.


Sincerely,
sub suzanne


I've had to agree with this 100%

My master generally picks what i wear and has in the past dictated how my makeup should be worn. he is my Master. that's his right





Well, then I wish you both luck when he behaves as inappropriately as has occurred in this situation.

suzanne,

Usually you are so realistic and compassionate in your responses. I'm disappointed that you failed to see beyond the "frivolous" nature of this being merely about makeup.



FLButtSlut -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/6/2005 4:44:07 PM)

Canis,

I agree totally that saying "I would like to learn more on my own" is the appropriate way to go, and told her I thought so as well.

I realized that people didn't know the whole story, and it distressed me quite a bit. Whenever I read a post, if I don't really understand what they are talking about, or think more information is necessary to accurately give an opinion, I will look to their profile, and sometimes (like this time) write them personally. I'm very glad I did in this situation.

The issue with the "he is always right" stuff is scary to say the least. I understand the "total control" thing, but common sense and "gut" feelings should always come into play.



FLButtSlut -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/6/2005 4:49:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedjulia


quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Is anyone actually reading this thread or do you just read the first post and respond?


I read bits of it and responded to a post that I agreed with.




Just a thought, when you respond to something you agree with without having the full knowledge of the situation, does it occur to you that you look foolish by doing so?



ownedjulia -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/6/2005 4:56:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedjulia


quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Is anyone actually reading this thread or do you just read the first post and respond?


I read bits of it and responded to a post that I agreed with.




Just a thought, when you respond to something you agree with without having the full knowledge of the situation, does it occur to you that you look foolish by doing so?



I responded to a post I agreed with and I have full knowledge of the post that I agreed with. The reply I replied to may well have gone off on a tangent from the original post but that happens to a lot of postings in this and in other forums.

If i am in the wrong then so be it, point taken, moving on.

if you wish to make a personal attack against me then please take it to mail and not in the forums.

The forums are not places for you to insult me or anyone else and i will not reply to you any further on this matter,




FLButtSlut -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/6/2005 4:56:06 PM)

Again, to all who are so trusting of their masters.....

If you believe that their experimenting with your weakness to follow their own uninformed agenda makes you a "good", "obedient" or "trusting" slave, realize that you are also saying that you have no value of your own worth and are willing to subject yourself to potentially permenant damage for the sake of pleasing another.

I know that some on this site think that is what being a slave is all about. But think about this and review this post a bit better...The MASTERS came to the OP's defense that perhaps this man was doing something wrong and advised her to follow her instincts. These were respected masters on these boards. If they are smart enough to tell her to react when she senses danger, why can't you be?



perverseangelic -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/7/2005 10:17:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

Again, to all who are so trusting of their masters.....

If you believe that their experimenting with your weakness to follow their own uninformed agenda makes you a "good", "obedient" or "trusting" slave, realize that you are also saying that you have no value of your own worth and are willing to subject yourself to potentially permenant damage for the sake of pleasing another.


No. It means that we have consented to that kind of dynamic. I haven't consented to that dramatic a dynamic, but if I chose to do so, it would be my -choice- not because I feel I am inferior, but because I believe that as an intelligent, thinking person I have the right to live my life in the way that will fufill me.

I have quite a bit of self worth. That self worth is increaced by being the valuable property of my partner, and by being willing to to allow myself to choose. Were I not allowed to choose to partially sublimate my own ideneity, were I told that this was soemthing a "wrong" thing I would lose much more self worth than it -appears- I do by surrendering my judgements to my partner.


quote:


I know that some on this site think that is what being a slave is all about. But think about this and review this post a bit better...The MASTERS came to the OP's defense that perhaps this man was doing something wrong and advised her to follow her instincts. These were respected masters on these boards. If they are smart enough to tell her to react when she senses danger, why can't you be?


Because they live a different power dynamic than we do, and because they are experience it from a different angle. LIke it or not, the world looks -very- different from the d side and the s side. To the tops, they are seeing things as they would from their own motivations--why they would tell their bottoms to do soemthing. The bottoms see it as if they are being told to do something, and how they would react within their dynamic.

Having read everything the OP's said about her situation, I definatly think she was in the right, and that her partner wasn't thinking through what he decided to do. But still looking at it from the possition of someone receiving orders, my reactions remain the same--that this person is misguided and not going about things the right way, but is not evil, nor abusive, nor bad. That there are some communication problems happening (that were resolved by the end of this thread) but that he did something he -though- was his right, through his own missunderstanding of the relationship, and didn't bother to clarify it.

Were I on the top, I honestly don't know what my outlook would be, but I bet it woudl be a lot different. I imagine your perspective is much different as a giver of orders versus being a taker of them.



Kasia -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/7/2005 1:43:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

I think those women who feel they are not attractive without make up on have some growing to do.

I dont feel I am unatractive without make up, I know I am more attractive with it....... and I use it when and if I want to, so what? You think that makes me less worth than you are?
If you are going to judge someone on the ground that she is using or not make up, I strongly suggest you are the one that needs some growing to do.



FLButtSlut -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/7/2005 10:06:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

No. It means that we have consented to that kind of dynamic. I haven't consented to that dramatic a dynamic, but if I chose to do so, it would be my -choice- not because I feel I am inferior, but because I believe that as an intelligent, thinking person I have the right to live my life in the way that will fufill me.


And that is my question, within your "dynamic" is it not possible that your master could ever be wrong?

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

Because they live a different power dynamic than we do, and because they are experience it from a different angle. LIke it or not, the world looks -very- different from the d side and the s side. To the tops, they are seeing things as they would from their own motivations--why they would tell their bottoms to do soemthing. The bottoms see it as if they are being told to do something, and how they would react within their dynamic.


Interesting point, but sometimes it is a great deal more helpful AND more logical not to look at things from the viewpoint of your chosen position in the dynamic, but rather from your position as a human being. I didn't look at this much from the position of being submissive but rather from the position that something seemed "wrong" on a human level. Quite frankly, if being an owned submissive meant that I was only able to look at things from one viewpoint, I would probably walk away forever. On the other hand, not everyone is capable of looking at things objectively from all sides and trying to reach a logical deduction of what is occuring.

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
Having read everything the OP's said about her situation, I definatly think she was in the right, and that her partner wasn't thinking through what he decided to do. But still looking at it from the possition of someone receiving orders, my reactions remain the same--that this person is misguided and not going about things the right way, but is not evil, nor abusive, nor bad. That there are some communication problems happening (that were resolved by the end of this thread) but that he did something he -though- was his right, through his own missunderstanding of the relationship, and didn't bother to clarify it.


We can only agree on one point here. I don't believe that her now former master is evil, abusive or bad. But this was not simply a man who was behaving in a misguided way. Let me try to use an example that perhaps makes more sense to you, and we are going to make some "assumptions" for the sake of the example. I have no clue the real situation you have in this regard, I'm just making some assumptions that will make sense in the example.

You and your master have discussed how you would love to have children, how in fact you really can't wait. During those conversations, though, he has said that he really feels it is better that you do wait, and you, being a good sub/slave accept that, perhaps even as a young woman see that he is probably right, you should finish school, etc. One day, he starts "hinting" that perhaps he is ready to start that family you desire so much. He begins saying how you should stop using any birth control and the two of you should start working on getting you pregnant. You are deleriously happy with this because you want a family and it would be so wonderful to have one with him. In reality, he has really begun to question whether or not he wants to ever be a father and whether or not he would ever want to have children with YOU. He never tells you this, but continues to make you believe that the two of you are going to start building a family together, something you desperately want.

Then you find out the truth of the matter because he has reached the conclusion that he really would never want you to be the mother of his children and doesn't believe that he could ever be a father. So he has conducted this little "misguided" experiment which has made you deleriously happy because it is something you wanted, only because he had a feeling you just weren't the type he would want for a mother for his children that he really doesn't want anyway.

This is simply "misguided"? Not communicating this with you his doubts from the start was misguided. However, knowing full well how you felt about this issue, and then playing on those emotions when he knew that in all likelihood he didn't want it, but just wanted to "see" is not misguided. This does not fall into the realm of "mind fuck" to play with something like that only for your own purpose.

That is what this guy did. He completely disregarding the OP's feelings here, trying to make her believe that he felt she had issues with her looks or undealt with issues with her illness when the issues were his alone. Not communicating that was misguided. Trying to make HIS issues her fault is not misguided, it is cruel, immature, and dishonest.

I understand how your power dynamic works (for the most part), and it is great to put your trust in him. But sometimes you can't look at something from the point of being a sub/slave, you need to look at it from the point of being human and sensing something wrong and respond accordingly. Yes, there were issues with communication and perhaps you or others here could forgive that and move on. But if your master was dishonest with you about something so deeply personal, could you just forgive, chalk it up to a mistake and have the same trust moving forward?


quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic
I imagine your perspective is much different as a giver of orders versus being a taker of them.


My perspective is much different because I see myself and others as human beings first. As for the rest of your mildly veiled insult, I both give and take orders in my life. I just have the intelligence to not take orders blindly when they look basely wrong. I don't blindly follow the orders of a man who I think is acting without the proper knowledge to make such decisions, and I have the common sense to question it when it happens. Of course, even though I am a sub, I have the responsibility of another life that counts on me, so I have to be able to look at something from an objective, rather than subjective perspective for the benefit of all involved. I'm terribly sorry that you find it so offensive that as a sub I regularly think for myself and make decisions without consultation of others. Luckily for me and the people in my life, I am able to do that since it is what keeps a roof over our heads and food in our bellies. Most people just call that being a grown up.



perverseangelic -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/7/2005 10:47:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

My perspective is much different because I see myself and others as human beings first. As for the rest of your mildly veiled insult, I both give and take orders in my life.



Wow. I have more to say, but no time tonight, what I -do- want to say now is that I appologize. This wasn't an insult. Wasn't even intended to be a fake, slide in the backdoor insult. I wasn't making an assumption about your orientation, as I honestly don't know it. I meant "you" as "other individuals." I should have used "one" to avoid confusion, but I'm not always great at proofing what I write, and sometimes this ends up with things being read other than how I'd intended.


quote:

Most people just call that being a grown up.


You've said something like this to me twice. -This- I read as a veiled insult, but that's probably because I'm sensitive about the way people react to my age.

Again, I appologize for the way I worded things before, suffice to say that wasn't what I intended at all. I was just trying to state that I know that people with different experience have vastly different perspectives from mine.



FLButtSlut -> RE: makeup or no makeup (10/7/2005 11:06:09 PM)

Apology accepted. And the "grown up" statement was not meant as an insult to you. Being grown up does mean doing those things, that is part of life. I get the impression that in many ways you are making your decisions compatible with the life you want and the things you want.

I think a lot of people are sensitive about their age, no matter which side they are on, old or young. Often though when people are young they are more trusting and optimistic. This is good and bad, obviously. It is great to trust your partner and to think that life will continue to be rosy. It is bad because it can sometimes blind you to reality. I am sure you have that "inner voice" as mistoferin calls it, or "gut instinct" as I call it. It always exists, and the funniest thing it that with all the trust and optimism we have in our youth, that gut instinct is the one thing we seem to ignore the most. My whole point is to tell you to ALWAYS trust that little voice in your head. If it means you have to question, then do it, but your instincts are your best friend and if you learn to listen and trust them, the "rosy" side of that trust and optimism could maybe never become jaded.

Does that make sense to you?

Again, I was not insulting your age, but pointing out for all of those who seem to miss it, that those things are part of being grown up.



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