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RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 5:08:03 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I come from a family of shooting enthusiasts. My entire family shoots. However, we do it for sport. This is a generational thing. My grandfather taught us. My father is teaching my younger family members. We shoot trap, skeet, rifle and pistol. The youngest of our family knows how to clean guns. My mother carries a CCW.

And all of us - my mother with her CCW included maintain that if you are hesitant to use a gun in self-defense, then you should not be carrying a gun in self-defense. If you are going to have a gun in your home be sure to have trigger locks on them so as to keep other possible family members safe from their own curiousity.

As far as your fear of guns, rather than trying to conquer your fear of lives lost, might you try to be involved in a sport that is associated with them? Target shooting, whether it  be with rifles or pistols (not sillouhettes but bullseye targets) allows you to practice to best yourself. Trap and skeet do the same thing but with a shotgun and some flying clay pigeons. Instead of focusing on self-defense (certainly a concern for many), you might just focus on what can be fun about the sports involving guns. A respect for the power of the weapon and your expertise is far more important than your willingness to use the weapon in a case of self-defense. At least if it ever came to that, you'd have the skill it took to be safer as well as effective.

I am a single parent. I have family members I am responsible for. And I do not use weapons for self-defense. As much as I've been raised around guns my entire life, I simply can't wrap my head around the idea of shooting a person, so I use other methods and feel reasonably safe. And whatever guns we do have around here are safely secured, even though my family members are old enough to know not to touch them unless we're cleaning them or on a field participating in our chosen sport.

juliet


(in reply to MrSuperior)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 5:30:11 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

Knowledge is power, armed knowledge is survival.


only if the bullit misses you. Strong talk never  assures survival

I can see both sides..if he demands it..you should..but more respectfull to me is....that if you really don't want it..because that is what you believe....then don't.
Every person has his or her strong believes. If they let one go..how much can they be trusted to not break the others?


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 3/15/2008 5:33:05 AM >

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(in reply to msterfixer)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 6:34:20 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		As an experienced gun enthusiast I have to say  that I think that becoming educated in gun use and safety is not a bad thing, even if you never intend to take it farther than that. I believe that a great deal of fear surrounding the use of firearms comes from a lack of understanding and lack of opportunity to learn about/handle/use them safely.

The part of your post that concerns me though is that it would seem that he is wanting you to learn about them so you can be more protected. While you certainly may become comfortable with that idea once you are educated in their use, you must also be prepared that despite your instruction you may still have deep seated fears regarding them. If that is the case then I would not recommend your reliance upon them for self protection. It is one thing to learn how to point and shoot accurately, it is another thing entirely to accurately guage your ability to shoot another human being. If you are not completely confident that you can indeed do so, you should never rely upon such a weapon for the purpose of self protection. I am not implying that you should feel as though it would be an easy thing to do, I would hope that no one would ever find shooting another person easy...but you do need to determine if could indeed do so if you had to.

If you decide that you do wish to carry/have a gun for the purpose of self protection, I strongly suggest that you become VERY comfortable and familiar with your gun. Don't just go to a few classes and feel that you are good to go. You are not going to remember what was said in that class in a moment of crisis. Practice with it until it becomes habitual. Handle it, take it apart, put it together, clean it, shoot it on a regular basis.....do these things again and again. I am about as comfortable with a gun in my hand as I am with a cup of coffee.

Classes are a great thing but they are only a starting point. Guns in unskilled hands are dangerous. A class will give you knowledge....the skill part is up to you.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 7:09:04 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'd refuse until he got a lot more information on the subject. Specifically, go to your local police station and ask to speak to the community liaison officer. Tell him that your s.o. is insisting you do this, knowing you are afraid and will still not ever think of getting the unloaded gun from it's case, loading it while hearing someone in the house, and then still not have the ability to shoot it. And ask the police officer to give your s.o. the real stats on guns in the home; primarily being that they are more often taken from the homeowner and used on them than vice versa. If afterwards, he still insists, knowing you won't be able to use it, then ask him how he is protecting you when he is setting you up to be killed by a burglar instead of just robbed?

He isn't seeing your emotional state because of his own. He isn't facing the facts because of his emotions. All of which adds up to him being out of control, at mercy to his emotional state. And that's not right.

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to MrSuperior)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 7:22:19 AM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for your responses.

He knows I’m afraid of guns, and that is part of what makes him want me to learn about them.  I don’t think I’ll carry a gun, but they are already in the house.

Stephann, I think you are right about the way to get over fears.  Thanks for the “go get ‘em!”

Petdave, the .22 is okay.  It’s not loud, it doesn’t hurt to fire it (joint pain my hands makes me a real wuss around handguns).  I can’t say I’ve ever enjoyed shooting it.  I do need a handgun that I can use in class, so we’ll be going shopping for one (his are too boomy).  Whether or not I would ever use it, I don’t know.  I would like to not dislike being around them.

Deferwop:
quote:


You aren't likely to be hurt by having the gun and getting some training with it.


Almost his exact words.


quote:

The gun in the nightstand makes the consquence of too hard a flogging a lot worse than a few hours of heavy snuggling and aftercare.


LOL.  But there is already a gun in the nightstand.

Steel, I liked you rpoints.  Part of what he learned that locally, law enforcement has a 25 minute response time to reports of violence.

quote:

To answer the question you asked, andi was never into threesomes and I was always a sexually driven man and after she relaxed she found how much she enjoyed having another woman with us and now we are looking for a second permanent.

See, I knew I was sharing him with the boom sticks!

Sailing Bum,
quote:

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

And Iron Bear
quote:

It is accepted in Law Enforcement circles that it is by far better to testify at the Corener's Court than in your own defense in a Civil Court.

It sounds like the same kinds of sentiments are taught in the class.  They go over when the different laws (“Make My Day, etc.)” come into play.  It is taught by law enforcement and they work to empower people to feel good about having a gun.  It surprised me to hear that.

Storms Slave – it hadn’t occurred to me that it could be sexy.  Thanks!

Ownedgirl *thanks*:
quote:

Becoming educated and learning not only how to shoot but proper philosophies behind shooting changed my whole belief system about guns.  I no longer embraced what I had been indoctrinated with, but I formulated my own thoughts and opinions about it.  Truth is, I came to love shooting and ended up taking Level 4 advanced firearms training.

That gives me something to shoot for (pun intended).

Juliet, I love video shooters.  Maybe I’ll try skeet-shooting.  It always looked like fun on cruises.
Justme, beliefs change over time.  Mine sure have.  I think what I have is something more along the lines of a phobia.

Mistoferin, I think you are right.  I won’t get skill out of the class.

Thanks again everyone for all your thoughts!

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 7:31:31 AM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline 		DesFIP, we were posting simultaneously.  It's not as dramatic as all that.  I assure you he's not "out of control" or anything.  I do think he would see me going to a liason officer for info to fuel a debate between us as something of a betrayal.  But it's not a debate anyway.  It's okay.  He's a good guy.   He's just a good guy who likes guns.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 7:49:10 AM   
MissLily


Posts: 146
Joined: 8/19/2007
Status: offline 		That sounds like a hard limit to Me... You shouldn't have to do it. Because you're his sub doesn't mean you have to go against your beliefs.

Talk to him. If he's a responsible Dom, he'll understand, if not, maybe he's just being selfish. Personaly, I would never have My boys do something that went against their beliefs or values.

Then again, I'm a woman...

Good luck!
Miss Lily

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 7:55:24 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		bit off topic perhaps
IS the weapons law every where the same in the USA?


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(in reply to MissLily)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 9:23:57 AM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		Law varies from state to state.  In Oregon, I could carry concealed after attending a course and being submitted to a background check, then issued ID to that effect.  In Illinois, I have to have ID just to OWN a firearm.  I don't know much about other states, but that's what it's like here.

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(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 9:44:09 AM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
bit off topic perhaps
IS the weapons law every where the same in the USA?


Oh, HELLS no... Firearms law varies by state, and even by municipality (New York City and Chicago being the biggest examples), and they're pretty unpredictable... In the Northeastern U.S., for example, Massachusetts has extremely strict gun laws, while on their northern border Vermont and New Hampshire are among the loosest... Same goes for California in the west (strict) and Nevada and Arizona...

For example, anyone who can legally own a pistol in South Carolina can carry it, loaded, in the glovebox or center console of their car... But if you drive up into North Carolina, it can't be in the glovebox, but it can be in plain sight on the seat or dashboard... And if you keep going into Virginia, i think the gun has to be disassembled with some of the pieces in the trunk, some in the passenger compartment, and the ammunition discarded at the border, or some such... It's frighteningly easy to run afoul of the various laws without intending to.

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 9:45:20 AM   
Hotch


Posts: 267
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline 		TracyTaken said a few key things in her post and they point to a healthy D/s interaction.

1. The dominant has identified a fear (firearms).
2. This fear is based in childhood learning (Sins of the father)
3. The fear has the trappings of being a phobia (The op was fearful while engaging in a safe activity).
4. The dominant is having her address her phobia in a safe and legal fashion.

She also said her dominant fears she is unsafe if unarmed.  THAT is the only concerning part of her post.  If it's true and not the op's perception of the situation, then I'd want further clarification as to the dominants mindset regarding the ownership and use of firearms.  While I believe the op would benefit from addressing her fear, I do not believe she would be safer if armed.  To the contrary, if presented with a situation where she needed to use her weapon, she may not be able to act effectively and thus put herself in greater danger.

< Message edited by Hotch -- 3/15/2008 9:47:25 AM >

(in reply to MrSuperior)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 9:54:04 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

bit off topic perhaps
IS the weapons law every where the same in the USA?



Varies from state to state and within states. A pistol without a permit inside New York City is a manditory one year in prison. No ifs, ands or buts, and pistol permits inside NYC are extremely difficult to obtain. Where I am, two hours north, pistol permits are still  difficult but rifles, shotguns, etc are much easier. And I could collect antique guns with no difficulty.

He's out of control because he isn't thinking logically, he's acting emotionally. And refusing to learn the truth instead of sticking to his emotional decision is a betrayal of you. He shouldn't be that insecure, after all if he really thinks his decision is correct then he should welcome your local sheriff backing him up.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 10:12:15 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		Thankfully lives in a country where guns are a rarity rather than the norm.
That said ...
I grew up in the country and started using shot guns when they were still taller than me. In the UK there are FAR more guns in the country than in the cities, especially in the rural farming communities I grew up in. My father taught all of us how to load, clean and low level repair the guns we had in the house. We had to go shooting with him until we were not afraid of the guns anymore and saw them for what they were, a useful tool deadly in the wrong hands. Those wrong hands may be yours if you have no idea how t use them or are shaking with fear, or that of an intruder.
I would have no qualms whatsoever of doing serious bodily harm to an intruder .. or anyone.. who threatened the safety of my family. Because of the gun laws over here, I would not keep a gun in my flat, its too red tape tied and there is no need. Within arms reach of my bed, there are about 4 weapons with varying degrees of lethality. All of them were given to me by my father who believes that without a man in the house, it is a miracle I am not brutually raped and murdered each night. None of them are guns, all of them are at least as dangerous to another person in my hands.

So .. learn about guns, because of the various reasons stated here and not least because it pleases your SO. Then sit down and talk objectively. If he wants you protected when he is not there, then he needs to see that you will not use the gun to protect yourself and thus insisting on you having one, may be counter productive.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 10:25:05 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TracyTaken

I am instructed to secure a concealed weapons permit.  He just went through the classes to get his and insisted if I never choose to hold a gun again in my life, I need to take the classes and get permitted.  I need to know the laws, etc.

I grew up in a home where guns were bad, guns were dangerous, having one in the home put you in harm's way, etc.  My dad was career Airforce, but he would not have a firearm in the house.  Now, I'm afraid of them.  I tried to be a good "getting into your hobbies" partner and went to the shooting range with him and his friends.  I've done it before.  I never liked it.  Last time was about 100 times worse because I was standing two feet behind him (with double ear protection and all) when he fired an AR50.   Dear Gourds, it felt so horrible - not just the noise, the concussion shook me to my very bones.  Every time somebody fired it, I jumped out of my skin even when I was several feet away.

So, I'm going to do this thing that I really don't want to do.  And I'm going to own a gun, which is probably the last thing in the world I'd want to own (okay, except for maybe a primate).  It's his ideals and his fear (that I won't be protected when he's not home) that are driving it.  To him, armed equals safe.  To me, gun equals danger.  I'm okay with it and not fighting it (in some ways - like learning the law - it sounds interesting).  And, it's what he wants, so it's what I'll do.

I was hoping to hear from others about contradictory fears and ideals in a D/s relationship.




Can you think of a way to enjoy guns or specific things you can do that will help you feel more comfortable?  For instance my owner has always been a gun enthusiast and it wasn't really until this past year that I finally took an interest in it (he had never pushed it, we've both always believed in people having separate interests - that I don't have to share all of his hobbies).  Some of the things that helped make the experience positive:

- Going to an outdoor gun range - the indoor gun range made me feel extremely claustrophobic and nauseous
- Him putting his hand on my back the first few times I shot a gun which was extremely comforting
- Just him and I going shooting instead of in a group - and also going shooting during a time of day where a lot of people weren't around
- Him picking out a small gun that would fit in my hand easily and wasn't really scary (a snub nosed .38)

Hopefully that helps,
C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

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(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 12:29:49 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

bit off topic perhaps
IS the weapons law every where the same in the USA?



As others said, it's not.  There is a lot of reciprocity in concealed weapons permits though.  Mine would be good in 27 other states.

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 7:51:10 PM   
SinergyNstrumpet


Posts: 305
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I was hoping to hear from others about contradictory fears and ideals in a D/s relationship.


I have a phobia of driving, he has me drive anyways.... so it is not that you are being compelled to do something that scares you that troubles me, but that you are being compelled to go against your ideals... which all people have.

Now, I will never own a gun. It is a stated limit. In fact I will not live in a home where there is a gun. I am lucky in that my Daddy has never made this an issue, knowing that handguns are more likely to be used against the owner than the other way around. He respects my ideals about gun ownership also. I do not believe in it for me. That being said, he wants me to have classes to learn how to use a hand gun, not to own one, but so that I can face my fears of them. He does not want me to be afraid of anything.

I will also say, he teaches women's self defense, has paid for me to take classes, and he wants me to take more once I am living there. He thinks the best weapons are the ones we are always armed with and that cannot be used against us. So his path to keeping me safe is somewhat different.

At the beginning of this thread you spoke of being compelled to do something against your ideals. You are the only one that can answer as to whether or not this is acceptable to you. Other people posting here have avowed different positions on that subject.. some will go against their own ideals, some will not. I won't, but I made sure I picked someone that does not see that as part of my submission to him. We all have choices about who we want to give our submission to, and where the line of going too far is. Some people will vote the way their master wants, others would leave UMs behind, others would sign away all their property, and still others would ditch friends or family. If wielding a gun isn't ethically wrong and just scary for you, that is one thing. But if wielding a gun is ethically wrong in your heart... in my mind that is quite another thing.


julia

< Message edited by SinergyNstrumpet -- 3/15/2008 7:52:53 PM >

(in reply to TracyTaken)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Ideals and Fears and Differences - 3/15/2008 8:00:18 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

And if you keep going into Virginia, i think the gun has to be disassembled with some of the pieces in the trunk, some in the passenger compartment, and the ammunition discarded at the border, or some such... 



No.

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)
Profile   Post #: 37
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