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RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:03:47 PM

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From: Moosecrotch, Va
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I dont see the issue in teaching a child 2 languages. I actually think its kinda cool to see kids who are multilingual. I dated a guy whos parents taught him Brazilian, Russian and Japanese (in addition to him learning English) so that he could speak to his relatives that lived over seas.

I wonder if you find it disrespectful that they teach English in schools overseas too Smith?

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(in reply to GreedyTop)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:04:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

There is no law, and you claim is this about laws for you, requiring a person, parent or otherwise, to be fluent. There isn't even a law saying you must manage in English. If this is about laws, you must change your stance or admit that this isn't about laws.

They've tried to pass laws making english the official language. Funny thing though. Everytime they try, they get called racist. Funny how requiring students to learn spanish above other foreign languages isn't racist, yet naming english the country's official language is.

Odd that.

They've also tried to pass laws to legalize pot, sex work, and gay marriage. I don't see you treating them as policy yet and mocking those who don't.

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It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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(in reply to Smith117)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:05:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

They've also tried to pass laws to legalize pot, sex work, and gay marriage. I don't see you treating them as policy yet.

I don't have to treat them as policy. Most already are in some places.

Nevada has legal sex work, California has, at least medicinal, pot laws, and gay marriage was legal then it wasn't then it was, I think Vermont still has it as legal. No one cries racism for those though. Only for english being an official language.

< Message edited by Smith117 -- 3/27/2008 10:07:01 PM >

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:06:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

GT! youre here! aquatic and i were just about to jump in the racer and go make some indian food-
you comin????

yeah..after I get back from England! (where they speak REAL English...LOL)

AH HA!

We shouldn't be fighting about Spanish vs. English, we should be fighting about the bastard child of a language we call English vs. REAL TWUE ENGLISH!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to GreedyTop)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:08:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KyttynTheMynx

I dont see the issue in teaching a child 2 languages.

The issue isn't the 2 languages. It's the forced spanish. What happened to choice? Why do the french, japanese, chinese, german, italians, etc, etc, etc, get left out? Why is spanish mandated as a second language if we can't even have english mandated as a first one?

As for teaching english overseas...that's kinda moot. It's the second most widely spoken language in the world (behind Chinese). So it makes sense that it would be taught.

< Message edited by Smith117 -- 3/27/2008 10:10:47 PM >

(in reply to KyttynTheMynx)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:09:23 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

They've also tried to pass laws to legalize pot, sex work, and gay marriage. I don't see you treating them as policy yet.

I don't have to treat them as policy. Most already are in some places.

Nevada has legal sex work, California has, at least, medicinal pot laws, and gay marriage was legal then it wasn't then it was, I think Vermont still has it as legal. No one cries racism for those though. Only for english being an official language.

Actually they cry "pevert", "sinner", "faggot" and blame those trying to get those passed for the moral decay of the country. And Katrina.

Fuck, I'd rather be called a racist.

Regardless, they aren't nation-wide policy and that is what I am talking about. Until gay marriage is nation-wide policy, there are no laws requiring various states who don't allow to respect gay unions made in other states. Until English is nation-wide policy, there are no laws requiring anyone to learn it. Either respect that or stop claiming this is about law or disrespecting the country. The country has decided what it wants.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Smith117)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:10:30 PM

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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I was thinking Indian from India. Athough, now that I think about it, I haven't had "offical" Native American foods - just what has made it into "American" food. Like popcorn!

You haven't? No corn? No tortillas? No squash? No roast potatoes? No raw tomatoes? No hot chocalate?

I think it far more likely you have no idea what foods the native americans had.

Well, potatoes originated in the Andes, Ken, but they're native to the hemisphere, so I say they count.

You forgot Capsicums. Without them, no paprika, pepperoncini, Szechuan, Thai, Indian/Pakistani, Vietnamese, Ethiopian, Mexican, and so on. Vanilla. Allspice. Turkey. Tequila. Guacamole (aguacatl). Beans. Pumpkins. S' all I can think of now.

I have some heirloom seeds for tomatoes from the Oaxaco region.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:10:46 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: KyttynTheMynx

I dont see the issue in teaching a child 2 languages.

The issue isn't the 2 languages. It's the forced spanish. What happened to choice? Why do the french, japanese, chinese, german, italians, etc, etc, etc, get left out? Why is spanish mandated as a second language if we can't even have english mandated as a first one?

You changed the subject. It started that you think it's a shame and disrespectful to the country to teach a child any language other than English first - regardless of circumstance.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 3/27/2008 10:12:02 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Smith117)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:12:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

The country has decided what it wants.

Yes it has. And what it "doesn't" want is to be called a racist for trying to make english the official language.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:12:32 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

The country has decided what it wants.

Yes it has. And what it "doesn't" want is to be called a racist for trying to make english the official language.

Hey, I don't like being told I'm going to hell for kissing girls. Damn that free speech thing!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Smith117)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:12:56 PM

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: KyttynTheMynx

I dont see the issue in teaching a child 2 languages.

The issue isn't the 2 languages. It's the forced spanish. What happened to choice? Why do the french, japanese, chinese, german, italians, etc, etc, etc, get left out? Why is spanish mandated as a second language if we can't even have english mandated as a first one?

Last time I checked, through most of the US, most schools offered at least Spanish and French as language classes. At a school here, they are offering Latin now too (wish they'd done that when I was in school). Some schools are offering German.
Now, maybe in the border states they are requiring SPanish, but to me that makes sense.. being on the border where the chance of dealing with Spanish speakers is high.

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(in reply to Smith117)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:14:21 PM

Posts: 4880
Joined: 5/10/2006
From: Moosecrotch, Va
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: KyttynTheMynx

I dont see the issue in teaching a child 2 languages.

The issue isn't the 2 languages. It's the forced spanish. What happened to choice? Why do the french, japanese, chinese, german, italians, etc, etc, etc, get left out? Why is spanish mandated as a second language if we can't even have english mandated as a first one?

As for teaching english overseas...that's kinda moot. It's the second most widely spoken language in the world (behind Chinese). So it makes sense that it would be taught.

Like someone stated, its what some schools are making be a part of the curriculum. Dont like it? Dont send your kids to school there. Where I live, its still a choice. I dont agree that children should be forced to learn a language, but with the way the job market is going, and the fact that people who are qualified for the jobs get turned away because they dont speak English and Spanish, its not a half bad idea to make them learn a few more languages along the way.

< Message edited by KyttynTheMynx -- 3/27/2008 10:16:17 PM >

_____________________________

Hibbie's Hottie

The next time you think I give a fuck, remember the 3 F's... Unless you are Feeding me, Financing me, or Fucking me, I don't give a fuck!!

"Kyttyn: The Other White Meat!" - DRH

10 Miles of Hot Chocolate Lovin'.

(in reply to Smith117)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:14:36 PM

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

Totally OT, but what the hey:

quote:

DomKen:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I was thinking Indian from India. Athough, now that I think about it, I haven't had "offical" Native American foods - just what has made it into "American" food. Like popcorn!

You haven't? No corn? No tortillas? No squash? No roast potatoes? No raw tomatoes? No hot chocalate?

I think it far more likely you have no idea what foods the native americans had.

Actually DomKen, seeing as EVERY ONE of your supposed "native american" examples comes from Central or South America, and the context was clearly NORTH American native food, I suspect you don't have a clue either.

As for me? I'm gonna join domahpet for some atoo (mutton stew) and fry bread. Wash it all down with some deeh.

MMMMmmmmm

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to DomKen)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:15:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

You changed the subject. It started that you think it's a shame and disrespectful to the country to teach a child any language other than English first - regardless of circumstance.

Actually I followed the subject down the winding path of conversation.

I never said regardless of circumstance. Though from what I have seen, (and no, I haven't seen EVERYONE.....duh) more often than not, the reason for teaching the child other than english first, is so the parents can have built-in translators. Which goes back to my other point about illegal aliens coming here 'claiming' to want to be Americans and to have a better life, but they really have no interest in that at all.

Honestly, how long should it take to learn the 'common' (if not official) language in a country you immigrate (legally or otherwise) to? I think it takes quite a concerted effort to 'avoid' learning it when you're here 3 decades and still can't navigate through the most basic of conversations.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:16:21 PM

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: domahpet

GT! youre here! aquatic and i were just about to jump in the racer and go make some indian food-
you comin????

yeah..after I get back from England! (where they speak REAL English...LOL)

AH HA!

We shouldn't be fighting about Spanish vs. English, we should be fighting about the bastard child of a language we call English vs. REAL TWUE ENGLISH!

*snicker*

(btw..congrats on the offical engagement!! *smooches to ya both*)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:16:55 PM

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

The country has decided what it wants.

Yes it has. And what it "doesn't" want is to be called a racist for trying to make english the official language.

Hey, I don't like being told I'm going to hell for kissing girls. Damn that free speech thing!

Ahh but you don't let others' views stop you from kissing girls. Sadly, our legislators let the racism cries force them to abandon their attempts at getting an official language passed.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:18:27 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

Honestly, how long should it take to learn the 'common' (if not official) language in a country you immigrate (legally or otherwise) to? I think it takes quite a concerted effort to 'avoid' learning it when you're here 3 decades and still can't navigate through the most basic of conversations.

Basic conversations are not a trial, which is how this got started. If you can only manage basic French and you broke a law in France, I bet you'd want someone to translate.

As for what you've seen, I don't agree in the slightest. From what I've seen, it's so that their children can speak with their grandparents still living in other countries, write letters to their cousins, learn that language well so that it is never forgotten - even when they move out and will speak in English most, if not all of the time.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Smith117)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:19:47 PM

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Totally OT, but what the hey:

quote:

DomKen:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I was thinking Indian from India. Athough, now that I think about it, I haven't had "offical" Native American foods - just what has made it into "American" food. Like popcorn!

You haven't? No corn? No tortillas? No squash? No roast potatoes? No raw tomatoes? No hot chocalate?

I think it far more likely you have no idea what foods the native americans had.

Actually DomKen, seeing as EVERY ONE of your supposed "native american" examples comes from Central or South America, and the context was clearly NORTH American native food, I suspect you don't have a clue either.

As for me? I'm gonna join domahpet for some atoo (mutton stew) and fry bread. Wash it all down with some deeh.

MMMMmmmmm

E.

Only if Mexico is in Central America. I don't consider it to be so. Evidently neither does the CIA Factbook map.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/factbook/reference_maps/central_america.html

(in reply to Emperor1956)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:21:19 PM

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Basic conversations are not a trial, which is how this got started. If you can only manage basic French and you broke a law in France, I bet you'd want someone to translate.

Regardless, most I have seen can't even manage basic conversation, let alone a trial.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

As for what you've seen, I don't agree in the slightest. From what I've seen, it's so that their children can speak with their grandparents still living in other countries, write letters to their cousins, learn that language well so that it is never forgotten - even when they move out and will speak in English most, if not all of the time.

Well, what we've seen differs greatly. I've seen parents on parent-teacher nights have to have their child translate what the teacher is saying about their students. That's sad.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Learn english or go to jail - 3/27/2008 10:21:23 PM

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

You changed the subject. It started that you think it's a shame and disrespectful to the country to teach a child any language other than English first - regardless of circumstance.

Actually I followed the subject down the winding path of conversation.

I never said regardless of circumstance. Though from what I have seen, (and no, I haven't seen EVERYONE.....duh) more often than not, the reason for teaching the child other than english first, is so the parents can have built-in translators. Which goes back to my other point about illegal aliens coming here 'claiming' to want to be Americans and to have a better life, but they really have no interest in that at all.

Honestly, how long should it take to learn the 'common' (if not official) language in a country you immigrate (legally or otherwise) to? I think it takes quite a concerted effort to 'avoid' learning it when you're here 3 decades and still can't navigate through the most basic of conversations.

As someone who was considering moving to Holland let me throw this thought out for consideration:
As far as I know there is no other language with sentence structure the same as English. For someone unfamiliar with the language, trying to pick up on a totally different phrasing, it can be daunting! and frustrating.. I know that's how *I* felt trying to learn to speak Dutch.. I think I had a harder time grasping the totally alien (to me) way the sentences were structured.
Why should it be any easier to someone trying to learn English?

ETA: also, if I'm not mistaken, studies have shown that (in general) the older one gets the more difficult it is to learn a new language

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 3/27/2008 10:23:15 PM >

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to Smith117)

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