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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 6:52:22 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

The true belivers in the communist movement (few as they may be) have in fact moved to the environmentalist movement.
Note that is not to say all environmentalist are communist and that inferance was never made except in your head.



That's a strong statement....how could you possibly know? Your caveat doesn't negate your statement.

'See, I'd estimate you're well wide of the mark. From those whom I've talked with who are involved in the environmental agenda, and from what I've seen with my own eyes (on various marches) I'd say that environmentalists come from a cross section of society....from anarchists to teachers to local government etc.......'truth be told, I'm yet to meet a communist environmentalist (assuming such a thing exists).

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 6:52:25 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I'd estimate that most, including myself, do not have the knowledge to lay down an informed opinion.



Perhaps, but it's hardly a theological dilemna, is it?


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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 7:50:58 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		The Wilkins ice sheet just disintegrated for no reason at all.

Polar bears aren't actually dieing each fall when the ice doesn't reform soon enough to keep them from starving and aren't dieing each spring from drowning when they find themselves too far from land when they try to leave the ice for land.

Bird watchers are making up the steady pole ward transition of birds.

And the big one of course increasing the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere by more than 100ppm in 200 years will have no effect on climate.

Or maybe something is actually going on.

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 7:56:28 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		nm argh

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/4/2008 7:57:05 AM >

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 7:58:56 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

L'Internationale


Cool 

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:01:46 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Also notice the people pushing this dont call it global warming so much anymore....now it is..."Climate change."

I dont feel there is enough evidence to support the idea that the world is warming due to human activity. The amount of CO2 and greenhouse gas humans put in the atmosphere is miniscule. They've recently discovered that there may be other factors leading to ice melting such as increased magma flow under the crust in Greenland. And increased solar output from the sun. In many spots in Antarctica, the average temperature is actually dropping. It is only rising in a few locations and that happends to be in areas where the ice is thinner making it easy to melt.

Despite this I am supposed to buy into this crap that the world is going to end in 2050 if I dont start riding my bike to work everyday? Meanwhile the man telling me to ride that bike is flying around the world in a private jet flooding the atmosphere with more greenhouse gas in a week than I ever will in a life time? Give me a break! When Al Gore, Hollywood, and all the other scammers in this hoax start conserving energy....maybe then I will at least respect their beliefs. Until then, it's nothing but cognitive dissonance. These people that use up so much energy have to find some way to justify it, so they buy into this idea that they need to promote conservation in order to feel as if they are doing something. It's a psychology state of mind....look it up.

Also why are we so naive to think the world cannot possibly change over periods of time? Is it supposed to stay static forever? And by the way...I dont own a single share in any energy or oil company.

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:08:20 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Yeah, and anti-choice became pro-life; and social welfare became nanny state; racism became equal opportunities for whites; the list goes on.

You're lamenting over a rather innocuous difference in wording; at least, climate change isn't an experiment in Novlang.

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:14:01 AM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Also notice the people pushing this dont call it global warming so much anymore....now it is..."Climate change."

I dont feel there is enough evidence to support the idea that the world is warming due to human activity. The amount of CO2 and greenhouse gas humans put in the atmosphere is miniscule. They've recently discovered that there may be other factors leading to ice melting such as increased magma flow under the crust in Greenland. And increased solar output from the sun. In many spots in Antarctica, the average temperature is actually dropping. It is only rising in a few locations and that happends to be in areas where the ice is thinner making it easy to melt.


It is not just about pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, it is also about destroying the habitat that takes CO2 out of the atmosphere. The fact that species are going extinct faster than ever should be cause enough for concern even if climate change isn't an issue. We are literally destroying our habitat by over harvesting the planet. Desertification of land is on the increase, inland lakes are disappearing, droughts are on the increase. No doubt you live somewhere where there is no substantial change at the moment and you are temporarily cocooned from the natural world by living in a developed country but you still live in the same world as everyone else and there are enough people who are alarmed at what they are already witnessing in their immediate evironment. Dutch hydro-engineers have become alarmed by the increased dangers of flooding they have been witnessing over the last decade. They are responding to a change in their physical environment, not some theory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611


Despite this I am supposed to buy into this crap that the world is going to end in 2050 if I dont start riding my bike to work everyday? Meanwhile the man telling me to ride that bike is flying around the world in a private jet flooding the atmosphere with more greenhouse gas in a week than I ever will in a life time? Give me a break! When Al Gore, Hollywood, and all the other scammers in this hoax start conserving energy....maybe then I will at least respect their beliefs. Until then, it's nothing but cognitive dissonance. These people that use up so much energy have to find some way to justify it, so they buy into this idea that they need to promote conservation in order to feel as if they are doing something. It's a psychology state of mind....look it up.



Al Gore is an irrelevance.

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:42:53 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Laughing...yeah, did you notice the date on that story?  Try posting this UPDATE (from the same website):

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080113143438.htm

Anyway, I've long since given up; you hardcore Collarme guys are going to stick to your guns no matter what evidence confronts you.  You'll always have some weblink to provide...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Actually the antarctic ice sheets are thicking in many places.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/01/020130074839.htm

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:42:56 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		No one is debating the fact that pollution is a problem. The problem I have is using science to scare the public in order to support your own agenda. That's wrong.

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:45:17 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Tell us, cyberdude: what is the purpose of science?

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:46:23 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Oops, so sorry, there's more:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123181952.htm

quote:

Rignot said the losses, which were primarily concentrated in West Antarctica's Pine Island Bay sector and the northern tip of the Antarctic Peninsula, are caused by ongoing and past acceleration of glaciers into the sea. This is mostly a result of warmer ocean waters, which bathe the buttressing floating sections of glaciers, causing them to thin or collapse.

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:50:14 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Tell us, cyberdude: what is the purpose of science?


Science is a method, through strict rules of data testing and replicatability, to seek reality independent of our desires and prejudices.

And this data stream shows why it is so desperately needed

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:51:47 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

No one is debating the fact that pollution is a problem. The problem I have is using science to scare the public in order to support your own agenda. That's wrong.


No one is using science to scare the public but some people are giving the public scienitific information so they can make an informed judgement.

Some people don't need scientific information, they are already alarmed by what they are witnessing first hand.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:51:57 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		To find the truth.

People running this global warming theory dont care about the truth. They are trying to shut down debate. They are trying to stop funding to scientists who question the theory. Scientists that disagree with the theory are refused admission to conferences on global warming. The American Meterological Society even made a threat to start revoking licenses of meterologists who refuse to perscribe to a particular theory. If the research and evidence is so great and sound, why push these scare tactics? Something is wrong with the science...it is weak and the supporters of the theory know this. So they are trying to preserve a weak theory because they believe that even if it is wrong, it will at least lead to better environmental policy.

I disagree with this.... I dont feel it is right to use science in this way.

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 8:55:03 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

To find the truth.

People running this global warming theory dont care about the truth. They are trying to shut down debate. They are trying to stop funding to scientists who question the theory. Scientists that disagree with the theory are refused admission to conferences on global warming. The American Meterological Society even made a threat to start revoking licenses of meterologists who refuse to perscribe to a particular theory. If the research and evidence is so great and sound, why push these scare tactics? Something is wrong with the science...it is weak and the supporters of the theory know this. So they are trying to preserve a weak theory because they believe that even if it is wrong, it will at least lead to better environmental policy.

I disagree with this.... I dont feel it is right to use science in this way.


If you want the truth about climate change you will have to wait until it is too late to do anything about it or by which time decades have gone past and one can say climate change was just a scare which I assume is your preference.

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 9:12:59 AM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

I am mearly pointing out that it has in many minds reduced the credibility of the movement as a whole.



Are you seriously suggesting the Republican Right has any credibility whatsoever?

The same guys who jump into bed with creationists and still swear there are nukes in Iraq?

All you need do is refute the science that proves CO2 has risen sharply since the dawn of the industrial age or, refute the science that proves there is a greater concentration of CO2 than at any time in the past 10,000 years or, refute the science that proves increasing concentrations of CO2 leads to the greenhouse effect.

Just refute the science.

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When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

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RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 9:16:36 AM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
Despite this I am supposed to buy into this crap that the world is going to end in 2050 if I dont start riding my bike to work everyday? Meanwhile the man telling me to ride that bike is flying around the world in a private jet flooding the atmosphere with more greenhouse gas in a week than I ever will in a life time? Give me a break! When Al Gore, Hollywood, and all the other scammers in this hoax start conserving energy....maybe then I will at least respect their beliefs. Until then, it's nothing but cognitive dissonance. These people that use up so much energy have to find some way to justify it, so they buy into this idea that they need to promote conservation in order to feel as if they are doing something. It's a psychology state of mind....look it up.


So basically you know nothing of the science, you just don't like the people who are advocating a greater awareness of how we are affecting our planet.

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 9:19:30 AM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

No one is debating the fact that pollution is a problem. The problem I have is using science to scare the public in order to support your own agenda. That's wrong.


Out of curosity, what will you be saying when (not if) the tundra melts, flooding the atmosphere with a good deal more CO and CO2 than now exists?

"oops"?

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Global temps have not risen since 1998 - 4/4/2008 9:22:58 AM   
Loveisallyouneed


Posts: 348
Joined: 2/5/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

To find the truth.

People running this global warming theory dont care about the truth. They are trying to shut down debate. They are trying to stop funding to scientists who question the theory. Scientists that disagree with the theory are refused admission to conferences on global warming. The American Meterological Society even made a threat to start revoking licenses of meterologists who refuse to perscribe to a particular theory. If the research and evidence is so great and sound, why push these scare tactics? Something is wrong with the science...it is weak and the supporters of the theory know this. So they are trying to preserve a weak theory because they believe that even if it is wrong, it will at least lead to better environmental policy.

I disagree with this.... I dont feel it is right to use science in this way.


Replace "global warming" with "creationism" and I'd swear I've heard this song before.

What is it with the Right Wing and their endless theories of how scientists are involved in global conspiracies?

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

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Profile   Post #: 40
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