"I'm Not a Doormat"

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"I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 9:50:31 AM

khem

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

Here's something I've noticed, that I haven't seen discussed.

I've noticed many submissive men feel the need to point out in their profiles that they are "not doormats." This is often in reference to those "other submissives" who are. This seems to be a recurring theme in profile descriptions. I don't think I've ever once met a man I'd describe as a doormat, yet someone has issued a memo to many guys that all their competition somehow is. Is this just a male ego thing? A way to compete? Do men really think that they are unique in the fact that that are not a doormat? From the men I've spoken with, many seem to have the notion that they are rare for having a spine. Lots and lots of...rare...

Thoughts?

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 9:51:44 AM

khem

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

Also going to add that could it be that many men feel that submission reduces their "manliness" somehow? And they need to state that they are still "real men?"

(in reply to khem)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 9:56:52 AM

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

It is possible that the desire to make the clarification comes from an internal conflict they have or used to have, or it is possible that the clarification is a reflection of attitudes encountered or anticipated. I think each possibility carries fair odds. It is not uncommon to see an interest in submission confused with weakness in personality or a lower social status in general (versus with respect to a chosen dominant).

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to khem)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:02:12 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

new subs male and female adopt this mantra.

search door mat and you will get a plethora of threads.

part of it comes from exactly what undergroundsea says, and part of it is because they see people in a differnt type of submission then they are comfy with and judge it.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:13:35 AM

Posts: 80
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: N.E. Ohio
Status: offline

Since I've also seen many Dominants include in their profiles that they are not seeking a doormat, could that be another reason that submissives include that trait (not a doormat) in their profiles? Just a thought.

_____________________________

MMistress
The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible. Arthur C. Clarke

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:18:12 AM

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

Looking at some of the threads (there are a LOT) that mention "doormat" will show you one other thing: Female Dominants, by and large, loathe doormats. So, stating that you're not one, that you are, in vanilla life, a Leader of men, Captain of Industry, and Slayer of dragons, is a good selling point.

For what it's worth, i am pretty much a doormat.
(but if i were on the market, i'd still say that i wasn't

)

(in reply to khem)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:20:12 AM

khem

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

Ok, the next question is...how would you define a doormat?

(in reply to petdave)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:22:55 AM

khem

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

When I read those "I am alpha in my day to day life" or "High powered business man" or "slayer of dragons and saver of women" descriptions, the first things that pop into my mind are 1) oh god, that'll be a lot of work 2) he probably has no experience translating his fantasy into reality. Totally a judgement and perhaps not even a fair one...

(in reply to khem)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:29:23 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

quote:

It is possible that the desire to make the clarification comes from an internal conflict they have or used to have

my profile(although not a male profile but a sub profile) is designed from my past experiences (since i started in 1998) all of which were bad. used, abused, treated like shit, lied to, robbed from (people using the thought we own you, we own your possessions, everything that is yours is now ours..you will not get it back if you leave relationship)...

all of which came from people who were the complete opposite of what was discussed and promised or offered. aka fakes, jerks, etc. all real life experiences from people that i met online.

that might be ok for some people..but sorry i am a real person. i should be treated with respect, loved, and cherished...just as i would to you. i dont plan on going through that sort of BS ever again.

_____________________________

I did not reply to your cmail.

I am flawed.

Imperfect.

MUST SPANK!!!

SPAAAAAAAANK!!!

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:37:05 AM

Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: khem

Here's something I've noticed, that I haven't seen discussed.

I've noticed many submissive men feel the need to point out in their profiles that they are "not doormats." This is often in reference to those "other submissives" who are. This seems to be a recurring theme in profile descriptions. I don't think I've ever once met a man I'd describe as a doormat, yet someone has issued a memo to many guys that all their competition somehow is. Is this just a male ego thing? A way to compete? Do men really think that they are unique in the fact that that are not a doormat? From the men I've spoken with, many seem to have the notion that they are rare for having a spine. Lots and lots of...rare...

Thoughts?

It's not just the male subs. I hear this all the time from 'submissive' women. I translate this into:

1) I'm only ever going to do exactly what I want to do,
2) I'm going to be very passive-aggressive about what I want from you, my top.
3) I'm harboring some grudge/wound that prevents me trusting you

My experience with these people has been that the core issue is trust, and the lack thereof. The phrase 'doormat' generally covers up that they feel hurt/betrayed by someone or some situation in the past, and they're trying to tell you up front that no matter what, they're going to retain full control of what goes on in this relationship.

The 'I'm no doormat' phrase tells me to stay well away, bunny boiler ahead.

(in reply to khem)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:43:55 AM

khem

Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to give faery a good cyber-hug (the really tight kind where you can feel boobs).

(in reply to DarkVictory)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:46:06 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

It's not just the male subs. I hear this all the time from 'submissive' women. I translate this into:

1) I'm only ever going to do exactly what I want to do,
2) I'm going to be very passive-aggressive about what I want from you, my top.
3) I'm harboring some grudge/wound that prevents me trusting you

My experience with these people has been that the core issue is trust, and the lack thereof. The phrase 'doormat' generally covers up that they feel hurt/betrayed by someone or some situation in the past, and they're trying to tell you up front that no matter what, they're going to retain full control of what goes on in this relationship.

The 'I'm no doormat' phrase tells me to stay well away, bunny boiler ahead.

its a two way relationship. it isn't just about you. which it seems to be from your post here. you are not god. you are the same as i am...a person with a mind, heart, body and soul. you might be the boss. but respect is given to all involved. anyone who thinks its just about them is an idiot.

_____________________________

I did not reply to your cmail.

I am flawed.

Imperfect.

MUST SPANK!!!

SPAAAAAAAANK!!!

(in reply to DarkVictory)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:48:54 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: khem

I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to give faery a good cyber-hug (the really tight kind where you can feel boobs).

_____________________________

I did not reply to your cmail.

I am flawed.

Imperfect.

MUST SPANK!!!

SPAAAAAAAANK!!!

(in reply to khem)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 10:52:10 AM

faerytattoodgirl

Posts: 5824
Status: offline

"I ultimately want a TPE style relationship (the kind with a few limits, not the
crazy kind)"

see thats a two way relationship!

_____________________________

I did not reply to your cmail.

I am flawed.

Imperfect.

MUST SPANK!!!

SPAAAAAAAANK!!!

(in reply to khem)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 11:07:34 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

re: define doormat: i have heard this and i loved it...

"a doormat is someone who does things i would not do, and a brat is some one who wont do things i will do"

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 11:24:19 AM

Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

its a two way relationship. it isn't just about you. which it seems to be from your post here. you are not god. you are the same as i am...a person with a mind, heart, body and soul. you might be the boss. but respect is given to all involved. anyone who thinks its just about them is an idiot.

Outside the dynamic, it *is* equal and all that jazz. Inside the relationship... well, clearly you're not going to put yourself into a situation any more where you go through any of what you mentioned above. I, on the other hand would *never* agree to be in a relationship like the one you describe. I'm only going to negotiate inequality.

No one right way, just a right way for me, and for you. Best of luck.

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 11:25:10 AM

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

its a two way relationship. it isn't just about you. which it seems to be from your post here. you are not god. you are the same as i am...a person with a mind, heart, body and soul. you might be the boss. but respect is given to all involved. anyone who thinks its just about them is an idiot.

Thing is faery you are transfering your values onto Him ... and raging at Him for something He didn't say

I have managed to maintain a friendship with, and the first stages of a relationship with a Domiant man for over 2 years. He respects me, He sees and values my intelligence, insight and independance, He supports my desires and needs, and helps me to grow beyond them. He values my heart body and soul very highly and has *never* for a *second* let me think otherwise

and all that has been done without me stamping my feet like a spoiled child and shouting "I am not a doormat!!!!" It has been done by behaving as someone who deserves respect, has a spine, and is not in fact a doormat. If I have to stand there and point out that I am not a doormat, wither I am one (but am ashamed) or am terrified of being made to do something I dont wish to do

Some of us faery, actually DO want to be made to do things that are repulsive, difficult, challenging or unpleasant against our actual wishes, and some Dominants want that from strong people with spines who are worthy of respect

just my two cents
(or 1p in real money)

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 11:32:04 AM

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
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Edit: Wrote this on fast reply and petdave already said it! But I think a lot of men say "I'm not a doormat" because so many women say "I don't want a doormat."

Trying to set himself apart from "those submissives" that the femme dommes are always bitching about and hating on is probably a pretty strong motive.

I really don't think that this whole turn of phrase has any one agreed-upon meaning. Some people use "I'm not a doormat" to mean "I'm a brat or a SAM and I'm into resistance play." Some people use it to mean "I'm a masochist, not a submissive". Some people use it to mean "I'm not submissive to anyone automatically, before a real D/S relationship is established, so don't bother trying to come on to me like Vampira or Attilla the Hun." I am sure there are other meanings too, like "I am a masochist AND a submissive, and even with my dominant I am still going to have an opinion, a mind of my own, and a need for respect."

*shrug* I like profiles that are more positive and happy with who they are, rather than asserting strongly what they are not. That's just a useful gauge of attitude, for me. But YYMV.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 4/20/2008 11:45:34 AM >

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 12:42:23 PM

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

A submissive male is just as male as a Dominant or a switch. They were born with cock n balls therefore they are male. What makes one "manly" can vary from person to person, as everyone has their own definition.

My submale is very manly looking and acting, however in private he enjoys cross dressing and putting on make up. I frankly don't mind it at all, it doesn't make him less a man in my eyes, in fact it makes me feel closer to him that he can trust me enough to reveal this side of himself to me.

I've seen some very "macho" dominant acting guys who were really doing just that...ACTING. Why submales feel the need to put those things that you mentioned into their profiles is beyond me. I guess because they feel some women will look down on them. If a woman looks down on a man for showing her his inner self she isn't much of a Domme now is she? Because frankly to me thats a big part of a D/s relationship. Being able to trust someone enough to let down the walls and get past all the conditioning to show them the real person that lies beneath.

My 2 cents.
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to khem)

RE: "I'm Not a Doormat" - 4/20/2008 12:51:06 PM

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

There is, however, a man I have seen at BDSM events who likes to play the role of a doormat. He likes to lie on the ground at the entry and be stepped on or have shoes cleaned on him. However, the stigma associated with doormat is so strong that even he uses different terminology; I think he goes by Mr Rugman. See, that just has a better marketing ring to it ;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to Lashra)

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