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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:17:27 AM

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I fell into a discussion onceon the civil war with a supposed history scholar from New York. I found it amazing the things he DIDN'T know.
I won't go into the long list but it made me wonder just what war he was supposed to have studied during that time. It definately wasn't the one that occurred down here.

(in reply to BrigandDoom)

RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:20:09 AM

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Time Team! good old Baldrig (from Black Adder) :D

nice series.
(or do I mix series up..lol)

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:21:37 AM

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I haven't had tv in over 6 months. I really couldn't tell you who is on what show anymore.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:54:01 AM

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http://www.ciao.co.uk/Channel_4_Time_Team__Review_5601301

It was Baldrick btw...I misspelled.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 8:08:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The big problem here is making any/all Iraqis out to be terrorist,conflating citizens with al-queda like they`re all the same thing.It`s a form of bigotry.

It`s the same form of blind bigotry that lead us to believe Saddam Hussein was with al-queda,when the opposite was true.

He was just another brown person/terrorist/dictator/and so on etc.,so it was easy to imagine him helping the terrorist who attacked us on 9/11,ie. bin-laden`s group.

al-queda in Iraq are people who came after Saddam and as a result of our presence there,and wouldn`t be there if not for our presents.

We shouldn`t say,now that we`ve created them in Iraq,we now can`t leave.That`s ridiculous.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One point that never seems to be emphasied is the fact most of the al-queada terrorists caught, wounded or killed in Iraq are not Iraqi's, but other nationals who are basically insurgents. Saudi, Yemenies, Syrians, Lebanesses, Iranians, Egyptions, Libyans, and Chechens etc. The Iradi's themselves are thoroughly pissed off with all of the violence, and the sooner we all get out the better.

Any government formed whilst we are unwelcome visitors will never be considered legitimate whilst occupying forces are in Iraq. I suspect we GTF and within a few years peace will return, the lunatic fringe will have been kicked out and what was generally a muslim state, but always a tolerant almost secular state will return.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 8:10:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Time Team! good old Baldrig (from Black Adder) :D

nice series.
(or do I mix series up..lol)

Tony Robinson, your quite right. Seen quite a few discoveries on the Time Team series that have re-written the history books and improved our knowledge and understanding of historic events.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 8:17:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I fell into a discussion onceon the civil war with a supposed history scholar from New York. I found it amazing the things he DIDN'T know.
I won't go into the long list but it made me wonder just what war he was supposed to have studied during that time. It definately wasn't the one that occurred down here.

Might that simply be a case of his written history conflicting with your oral history? I've lived in the South much of my life and have found that they have dearly held beliefs that simply don't stand the smell test let alone correlation with contemporary writings

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 9:20:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Might that simply be a case of his written history conflicting with your oral history? I've lived in the South much of my life and have found that they have dearly held beliefs that simply don't stand the smell test let alone correlation with contemporary writings

I guess history is always influenced by onse own opinion. Especialy with teachers and such, that do it over years. Sllowly what they learned get injected by opinions instead of facts.

( I guess in the south they still rise agian?)

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 5/23/2008 9:21:32 AM >

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 5:54:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696
( I guess in the south they still rise agian?)

From testimony of my former girlfriends, I understand that over undulgence by the locals in various stimulants and nervous system depressants have made that a problematic situation with all but the youngest males in that particular population.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 5:59:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I haven't had tv in over 6 months. I really couldn't tell you who is on what show anymore.

I knew there had to be a reason why I like so many of your posts... your brain hasn't been turned to pablum by the glass teat.
Several years without the addiction here.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 6:08:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I fell into a discussion onceon the civil war with a supposed history scholar from New York. I found it amazing the things he DIDN'T know.
I won't go into the long list but it made me wonder just what war he was supposed to have studied during that time. It definately wasn't the one that occurred down here.

Might that simply be a case of his written history conflicting with your oral history? I've lived in the South much of my life and have found that they have dearly held beliefs that simply don't stand the smell test let alone correlation with contemporary writings

Like the British tourists who come to visit Colonial Williamsburg, et al, and are insistent that the living history interpreters at Yorktown have their facts mixed up... everyone knows since 4th form that Lord Cornwallis was a military genius who was never defeated.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:09:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
Like the British tourists who come to visit Colonial Williamsburg, et al, and are insistent that the living history interpreters at Yorktown have their facts mixed up... everyone knows since 4th form that Lord Cornwallis was a military genius who was never defeated.

Just quietly hum "The World Turned Upside Down" as they speak and wait for them to ask why

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:10:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

I fell into a discussion onceon the civil war with a supposed history scholar from New York. I found it amazing the things he DIDN'T know.
I won't go into the long list but it made me wonder just what war he was supposed to have studied during that time. It definately wasn't the one that occurred down here.

Might that simply be a case of his written history conflicting with your oral history? I've lived in the South much of my life and have found that they have dearly held beliefs that simply don't stand the smell test let alone correlation with contemporary writings

Like the British tourists who come to visit Colonial Williamsburg, et al, and are insistent that the living history interpreters at Yorktown have their facts mixed up... everyone knows since 4th form that Lord Cornwallis was a military genius who was never defeated.

He had to be a military genius, otherwise he wouldn't have been defeated by the French at Yorktown!

The independence war was effectively Britain's Vietnam, very little support at home, no strategy and no fucking idea what to do with the place should they have won. Some wars are worth losing because winning them would cause more trouble than its worth. One has to wonder why Britain ever wanted to hold on to the colonies, they were just a drain on the British economy and that was before the war started!

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/23/2008 7:16:36 PM >

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 7:21:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

Time Team! good old Baldrig (from Black Adder) :D

nice series.
(or do I mix series up..lol)

I have a cunning plan.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 9:43:12 PM

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Actually, JohnWarren, there are a number of written histories that uphold some of the oral histories. As I said, though, this fellow was far from what is even in many history books.
One point to demonstrate. He claimed that there were no rapes, murders or robberies of civilians during Sherman's infamous march to the sea. There are a number of books that I have read that even quote Sherman as admitting that those things happened and that he had no way to capture all of those who committed the crimes. It still depends on who you ask as to whether he really did order that those things not be done or whether he turned a blind eye and claimed to have issued that ordr to make himself look less the monster later. The last is not a point I can or would waste my time arguing as neither side can ever prove if Sherman did or didn't give the order.
I would have to say that Sherman's own words should be enough proof that it happened. And, yes, it is a dearly held belief by many in the south to this day that Sherman ordered the civilians be treated in this manner. Of that part, I will agree that there is no proof either. As you said, it fails the smell test.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 11:11:26 PM

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Sherman knew how to defeat an enemy.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/23/2008 11:14:23 PM

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THAT I will not argue with. He was a brutal bastard who got the job done.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/24/2008 12:02:11 AM

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This guy was a Civil War historian? I don't know anyone who believes that. Even the best disciplined army has those who break the rules and rape, robbery and murder are all too common events in war.

If he wasn't a Civil War historian, then his opinion doesn't matter much as specialization is the curse of academia. For example, a chemist may be just as ignorant as anyone regarding psychology. Heck, you should see the brawls between the qualitative and the quantitative sociologists.

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/24/2008 2:02:14 AM

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......too bad it wasn't being held by one a them there terrorists......

Give the kid a break.....he volunteered to put his life on the line to go into a combat zone.....so a 19 year old in a highly stressful situation did something really dumb........If he walked into to the bar in my hometown he'd be given a standing ovation....

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RE: US soldier shoots at Quran for target practice - 5/24/2008 3:27:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

I have a cunning plan.

haha yes..that is great humour

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