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RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 5:17:37 AM

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Joined: 10/12/2005
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I own two online Gorean slaves, and they both call me 'Master'. When I meet a submissive in a chat room or in real life, it is always nice if they call me 'Sir'. For me, it is not like the appellation in the vanilla world, where I actually dislike hearing it used. In the world of bdsm it has a different function, it seems to me, of reinforcing the social status of all concerned.

However, having said that, if people don't use it I am not at all bothered, so long as they are polite.

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 5:31:15 AM

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Part of the answer to your question is that there are different belief systems held by various people in the lifestyle as to what is proper and that there is no "one true way".

You appear to feel it is correct for slaves who do not belong to you to address you as "Sir" or "Master". My owner, on the other hand, is somewhat annoyed by those who address him as Sir without knowing the first thing about him, and gets *really* annoyed when someone addresses him as Master when they haven't earned the right to address him as such. He would beat *me* black and blue if I ever called someone else "Master" and he reserves my calling someone "Sir" or "Ma'am" to those he has instructed me to call that...and even then only after I have asked permission from those people to do so, as he feels it would be presumptuous to do otherwise.

best regards,
fate

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(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 5:55:36 AM

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I think the 'The your not my Dom syndrome' is as prevalent as the 'rude assshole syndrome'.

Some of us were raised to call everyone 'Sir' or 'Ma'am'. Some of us weren't. Some of us are polite to everyone. Some are only polite to people that they know. Some people show respect to everyone, some only show respect to people that they know and feel respect for. I think you can show someone respect without respecting them for who they are. I have customers, so, I know that to be true, for me. But, I don't expect everyone to see things as I do, or behave the way that I do.

'Sir' is used in play and to show submission by some and for that reason we may see less of it in polite conversation than some of us might like.

I like to be called 'Sir' when I'm dominating a girl, I will not allow anyone to address me as 'Master' unless they are my collared slave, and I call people 'Sir' or 'Ma'am' without assigning them dominance.

But, I can understand why some submissives may have learned that calling people 'Sir' or 'Ma'am' has caused those people to assume dominance when submission wasn't offered, and, for that reason, have stopped doing it. Some girls have called a dominant 'Sir' to be polite and have been told to 'get on your knees bitch' (albeit probably in a chatroom). I can understand it if they're a little gun shy.

Then we have to consider how a submissive or slave has been trained, or intructed to behave. There are posts that mention 'poaching'. Some dominants may tell their submissives to refrain from using any honorifics online in order to discourage misunderstandings. And reduce the number of uninvited solicitations.

I don't assume authority, or make demands of people that aren't subordinate to me.

I agree with Desert Rat. If I don't like someone's manner, I just don't bother with them. But, even then, I try not to judge them. There is no telling what asshole they spoke to last.

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(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 6:44:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

Honor has never been all that common-it's another "golden age" fallacy Six.

I don't worry about it..Prefferring to simply keep my own house in order.

Damn! It is so GOOD to finally hear someone say that the "good old days" weren't really all that good. Not a popular notion, but one that I believe. Thanks.

Bob

The idea of a "golden" or "better" age in the past is as old as Sumarian writing.... so its just a idea, not based in any historical reality and usually promoted by people who have a pop history view of things.

As for people being less polite, I've seen people on both side of the flogger acting as jerks and being lovely ladies and gentlemen.

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(in reply to DesertRat)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 7:03:17 AM

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From: Washington, DC Metro Area
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First i'd like to ask if bella would be punished if the "Master" who was reporting her disrespect (in chat) to You was someone You didn't know? If she denied the report would You take the time to look at her logs? Would You be able to see that what ever she had "said" could be taken not as disrespect but as something else, perhaps?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

I like that one my freind but the be real how can an online Dominate make anyone do anything? lmao......she dosent take orders s to say go and find me a porn site this is a little far fetched...if another Master in a chatroom had seen her expressing herself as to be dishonorable to me or anyone else in the room without the person doing anything to be rude to her I would expect that Master to get on her ass and email me directly then I wuold issue the punishment deserved

Master Six

Secondly, i tend use Sir and M'am a lot...i was born and raised down south, as a military brat on top of that, so good manners were expected, or else..lol. i call little boys and girls Sir and M'am..it makes them feel special (or in deep trouble, depending on my tone..lol) If someone requests me to call them Sir or M'am, i don't have a problem with it, since i've also been known to call subs (male and fem) by the same thing.

When i had a Master i wasn't allowed to call anyone else Master or Mistress, but i was expected to be polite and respectful. If they did something that that caused me to feel differently, my Master acted on that, not me. i have to admit it was hard to get used to, but i once i did it made me feel very secure and trusted.

regards
jimini

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(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 7:05:31 AM

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The main issue here is that we are somehow equating "being dominant" which most of us believe is an innate orientation, as somehow deserving of some sort of special recognition.

Now, this isn't a gorean issue. Goreans have their own ways of it and let them have it.

If a person WANTS to try and call all doms sir and maam all the time, let them for it. Frankly it would be amusing to watch someone try and figure it out and do it consistently in all the clubs and social circles I hang around in as there are a lot of switches, there are a lot of different dynamics going on at the same time, and rarely ever any obvious symbol of the dynamic at play.

Someone is not rude just because they do not use honorifics the way you want them to.

Now, there is a way to handle someone who presumes the use of honorifics and a way NOT to handle it. Throwing a tantrum and screaming "You're not my dom, loser!" is not really the best way to do it. If someone calls me maam, I simply just smile and let them know that my name is just fine. If someone expects me to call them sir I usually just smile and play dumb (because except online, I've never had anyone outright tell me how I should address them when there isn't an established relationships).

For me the issue is simple, a dominant is no different than a vanilla or a submissive EXCEPT that they have a different relationship orientation. Calling them something special to me would be like calling all heterosexuals sir. There's nothing WITHIN being a dominant or vanilla or whatever which would denote some special status to me.

And presuming that *I* am the rude one because I think that way says more about the persons presumptions and lack of understanding social graces more than anything.

(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 7:35:34 AM

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I think there is a big difference between someone saying "Yes Sir" and that person saying "Yes sir". I was taught (and tried to teach my child) that you should refer to any adult older than you as 'sir' or 'ma'm'. That is respect and should be used as a courtesy wherever and whenever possible. However, referring to someone as 'Sir' or 'Ma'm' (capitalized) is totally different. That is a special respect given only to someone who has earned it.

If a Dom tried to tell my Sub "On your knees bitch" he would probably hear some things from her he didn't expect, followed shortly by some things from me he didn't want to hear. This isn't Gor and unless your 'scene-ing' with someone, a stranger has no right to speak that way to a lady, PERIOD!

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(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 7:36:08 AM

Vancouver_cinful

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

A few points here:

1) I can be polite without calling someone Sir or Master. Both terms I reserve for people that have earned my respect by their actions.

2) Because there are many self proclaimed Dominants that are not really Dominants. If you think I'm kidding, go set yourself up a female sub profile on AOL and see the kind of IMs you get. It takes a very short time to become fed-up with the wankers online.

What she said....

I was raised to be polite. I wouldn't be disrespectful to a dog on the street, but I wouldn't call it sir either.

Trust me, when you hear "You HAVE to show me your tits on cam because your profile says you're a sub and I am a MASTER Dominant!" on a daily basis, you start saying "You aren't MY dom though, are you?"

It's a whole lot more polite than telling them where they can put their webcam...

Cin

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(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 7:40:34 AM

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From: Pennsylvania
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I like the emails that close with: When you respond, please call me "Sir."

I don't think so. Just because you give yourself an honorific, does not mean that I will feel compelled to use it. Unless you are *my* Sir or *my* Master. Those emails give me a chuckle, before I ignore them.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 8:50:00 AM

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Greetings krikket,

yes I would take the time to read the logs and to see if there was actually a refraction she had comitted...and I can see where alot of people are gun shy about referring to someone as Master or Sir...there are alot of people that dont deserve the title I will admit but never the less I think there is a way to come across without being rude.......then again im from the south and this is just considered manners

Master Six

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RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 9:09:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

Greetings krikket,

yes I would take the time to read the logs and to see if there was actually a refraction she had comitted...and I can see where alot of people are gun shy about referring to someone as Master or Sir...there are alot of people that dont deserve the title I will admit but never the less I think there is a way to come across without being rude.......then again im from the south and this is just considered manners

Master Six

The problem seems to be you have "one best way" of being polite- calling dominants sir.

There are tons of ways to be polite without using that particular word in reference to someone.

While I UNDERSTAND the whole "southerners have different manners and mindset" thing (my family is southern and my first master lives in NC), it doesn't somehow make you superior in that way and trust me, I've seen plenty of exceedingly rude southerners.

As well, if you're falling back on southern manners...well they never go over the whole "dom/sub" dynamic as far as I know...it's simple woman = miss or maam and man = sir. You are somehow perverting that into a power dynamic.

Try and recognize there is more than just one way to be polite to someone, ways that don't involve using honorifics at all. Understanding that presumption of status is as rude as denying actual status.

(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 9:21:43 AM

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Let me put it this way guy.

I could play along and call someone "roast beef sandwich" if that made them happy.

It would still not place them in the deli section by default now,would it?

(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 9:37:39 AM

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Joined: 5/19/2005
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Hello There,
Most sub/slave women are indeed polite until someone who's not had permission from her Dom/Master to touch her or bark orders at her.

Some wanna be Doms think they can come into a public place and pretend to be king over everyone. Just because you choose to submit to your Master/Owner/Dom does not mean someone else can tell you what to do without your Masters permission, or if you don't have a Master your own permission as a free woman.
This concept parallels the Gorean standards in my opinion. You wouldn't like some guy coming right up to your slave and telling them to serve him in some way without your permission would you?
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to SirSix72)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 10:22:32 AM

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From: NM/USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

.......then again im from the south and this is just considered manners

Master Six

The problem seems to be you have "one best way" of being polite- calling dominants sir.

There are tons of ways to be polite without using that particular word in reference to someone.

While I UNDERSTAND the whole "southerners have different manners and mindset" thing (my family is southern and my first master lives in NC), it doesn't somehow make you superior in that way and trust me, I've seen plenty of exceedingly rude southerners.

As well, if you're falling back on southern manners...well they never go over the whole "dom/sub" dynamic as far as I know...it's simple woman = miss or maam and man = sir. You are somehow perverting that into a power dynamic.

Ah, the Good Old Days...Southern Manners...maybe next someone could talk about the industrious and prejudice-free North?

Rudeness can come from anywhere. I have noticed here, and at other bdsm sites, rudeness coming from men who go out of their way to point out that they are classic Southern Gentlemen. As though proclaiming made it so. I always love ironies like that. It reminds me of how my dad would say "I don't want to sound prejudiced but..." and then follow up with some patently racist observation.

Anyway, I deal with people one at a time and avoid personally identifying sociological trends and syndromes.

Bob

~edited to insert an omitted comma....I think I am becoming obsessive/compulsive.~

< Message edited by DesertRat -- 10/24/2005 10:58:16 AM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 10:37:33 AM

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quote:

2) Because there are many self proclaimed Dominants that are not really Dominants. If you think I'm kidding, go set yourself up a female sub profile on AOL and see the kind of IMs you get. It takes a very short time to become fed-up with the wankers online.

This is true, to go even a bit further...I always say we are all on different level's. My dom may not be at all dominant to you but he can control me. Doesn't need to control you.

By the way Oside this is not directed at you but using your words to make my statement.
I personally know 5 dominants in the world. Yes, I stated world. I believe I may know a couple more online. Although I've never met them so I cannot say for sure.
The one's I consider dominants get more respect than anyone else. They have behaved the way I believe a dominant should.
Hence, not a liar so not trying to gain something by not working for it. Their demeanor...they can hold their temper. They have empathy for other's.

I guess the key is to define what a dominant is. Most are not. Some are. Of course...those same 5 I happen to know...it could be literally hundreds to another person.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 10:38:35 AM

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Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

Let me put it this way guy.

I could play along and call someone "roast beef sandwich" if that made them happy.

It would still not place them in the deli section by default now,would it?

If it would i would insist on being called Milk Chocolate Bar.
Ummm....imagine being placed in the candy aisle.

(in reply to JustaTop)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 10:42:42 AM

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quote:

edited to insert an omitted comma....I think I am becoming obsessive/compulsive.~

No kidding. I am obsessive/compulsive with other things but..not typing you get my typo's and all here. Its all me unedited.

(in reply to DesertRat)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 10:54:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64

Hello There,
Most sub/slave women are indeed polite until someone who's not had permission from her Dom/Master to touch her or bark orders at her...

I would have to disagree with you on this one...lol. I feel a large number of people (perhaps as many as to make up a majority, but if not, certainly enough to hold their own), including plenty of sub/slave women, are *not* in the least bit polite in general, but I think that has more to do with society and changing social mores than with the lifestyle. If this were a topic about the decline of manners in general, I'd be siding with the op.

best regards,
fate (who was also born and raised in the south...although I'm not sure why that is relevant)

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 11:00:34 AM

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Joined: 11/26/2004
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My slave lusti, know I expect her to treat all Doms with respect until that Dom proves to be not worthy of it, then she can eat him or her fro breakfast. As for calling them Master, she calls no one Master but me, as for 'Sir' or 'Maam' I leave that to her. She has a tendency to use those terms to Doms that I really respect, unless they say otherwise. As for me I refuse to let anyone other than my slave call me Master, that is a right she has earned. I notmally tell subs/slaves to call me WK, though some prefer to call me Sir and lots that I have played with call me Bastard, any or all is ok by me.

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can make you commit atrocities.
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(in reply to stormsfate)

RE: The your not my Dom syndrome - 10/24/2005 11:21:44 AM

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lmao,

I think the point I was trying to get across in this thread has been a bit misconstrued with lots of jealousy...maybe im different...I expect bella to use her manners and as anoth poster says if the guy or gal is a jerk she can eat em for breakfast........and I have a pet peeve and ladies dont get your feathers ruffled with this one...try and look at the context of the sentence:my Master. my Dom.: this shows ownership by the context of the sentence..this is unacceptable for me personally........I read how others make their point by the articulate way they come across with words...the way I read it as if almost He IS MINE thing going on........jealousy maybe showing its ugly face? im not sure what the intentions are behind the structure of the sentence...or that im trying to change how anyone speaks to everyone else...this is a personal pet peeve...if I own you how can you show any type of ownership in anything other than what I give you? lmao JustATop my freind I love the roastbeef thing ROTF

Master Six

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I wish you well

(in reply to JustaTop)

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