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RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 9:10:52 PM

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quote:

Edited for pertinance to MzBerlin. If anything adressing Synergy survives, I offer my apologies to him.

What I do?

Sinergy

p.s. the name is SINergy, not Synergy, which is some other name. Please make a note of this.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 9:45:43 PM

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I'm sorry to hear about your experience. One of the things I have noticed in my coversations with women who have been raped, is a tendency to bond with the abuser. I have heard this is a defensive mechanism.... "Give them what they want...and they will go away." I don't believe that this has anything to do with being submissively inclined. If anyone else has any experience with this phenomenon...please add some information.

As far as lectures...all I will say is "safety net."

~Thorns

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(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 10:13:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
One of the things I have noticed in my coversations with women who have been raped, is a tendency to bond with the abuser.

I have never once bonded with an abuser. And it has happened to me more then once. Fuck them if they can't control themselves. They will get no pity from me.

- LA

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(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 10:21:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns
One of the things I have noticed in my coversations with women who have been raped, is a tendency to bond with the abuser.

I have never once bonded with an abuser. And it has happened to me more then once. Fuck them if they can't control themselves. They will get no pity from me.

- LA

I agree...fuck em. But I don't know what gave you the idea that they should receive pity from anyone.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 10:27:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I have never once bonded with an abuser. And it has happened to me more then once. Fuck them if they can't control themselves. They will get no pity from me.

I agree...fuck em. But I don't know what gave you the idea that they should receive pity from anyone.

"tendency to bond" -- making excuses, no? perhaps I heard women making excuses for their behavior... sounds like pity to me.

Anyhow, that was my mad rant for the night!

- LA

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RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 10:45:19 PM

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BERLINS FINAL SAY ON THE MATTER
(to whom it may concern or not concern)

Hey, Y'all-
Rape is Rape is Rape. When you violate another in a non-consensual manner it's RAPE.
As for the pushing limits "issue"- the dynamic to push those limits is there. Even if it's a consensual non-consensual thang, it's OK. Breaking a limit and VIOLATING your partner in a completely non-consensual manner is RAPE.
Any Questions? Write my box or post it here.
I don't think that I have any need to clarify this opinion, though.
As Always
Berlin

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 10:49:00 PM

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Oh wow...noooooooo. That was in no way what I was getting at.

The OP asked about submissive feelings during a rape....or at least, that's what I understood. My point was that any feelings that are perhaps "submissive like" the victim may have, could be due to a defensive mechanism. The "bonding" is simply how a victim may react. Instead of putting up this big fight, kicking and screaming, eye gouging, etc... some victims may find themselves being very subdued...very calm, even. My post was in no way intended to say that the abuser deserves some kind of pity or special treatment. Send me their nuts in a jar...make a great conversation piece.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 11:03:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

Oh wow...noooooooo. That was in no way what I was getting at.

The OP asked about submissive feelings during a rape....or at least, that's what I understood. My point was that any feelings that are perhaps "submissive like" the victim may have, could be due to a defensive mechanism. The "bonding" is simply how a victim may react. Instead of putting up this big fight, kicking and screaming, eye gouging, etc... some victims may find themselves being very subdued...very calm, even. My post was in no way intended to say that the abuser deserves some kind of pity or special treatment. Send me their nuts in a jar...make a great conversation piece.

~Thorns

Thorns-
I think that by using the word 'bonding' you implied a sense of empathy. What goes on during a rape can consist of many things. One of those things is "blocking." This can be seen as submitting to the rape, but is not. It's when the victim stops fighting and floats off to wait until it's over. I can only assume that is what you were trying to describe. Another thing that can occur is self blame (ex. If only I hadn't.....). Neither of these things are unusual.
I'm happy that you clarified.

As Always-
Berlin

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/25/2004 11:06:01 PM

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Well...I do understand what you mean, MzBerlin... but I didnt coin the phrase. Just passing on the information. "Blocking" seems like a very appropriate term.

~Thorns

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~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to MzBerlin)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/26/2004 6:24:28 AM

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If you handed over all power to your dominant when you accepted his collar, then
you gave him permission to push your limits. So it wasn't rape.

Does this make it a little clearer?

actually no.. but does make it a bit scarier....... first of all..i never accepted a collar..and even if i had.... pushing a limit.. regardless of negotiation.. does NOT make something rape.. rape is a very distinct legal status.. pushing a limit is well pushing a limit..

yes.. NO MEANS NO.. but .. making me get ice in the nude does not constitutue rape... it constitutes me getting ice in the nude.. and if i say NO.. and i get dragged out in the hallway by my hair.. it still doesnt make it rape.. it makes it simple assualt at best..

beyond all of that.. the post i responded to.. said.. pushign limits should always be fun.. i disagree if they were always fun.. they wouldnt be pushing limits.. they would be.. having fun..

mely

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/26/2004 3:20:27 PM

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quote:

iwill-
no response needed. It is obvious that YOU are trying to hijack the thread.
Berlin

Yet you make a response. You are being silly and crying for attention. I'll not resopnd to you further.

topcat,

Did they go to a movie? (Hey I don't think Bringing Down the House was play material.

) I'm sure Pro Dominas have to deal with violent subs in play sessions. The scenario involved, however, is going to see a movie. If the play session involved going to a movie with no whips in sight I'd like to hear that story.

Also, was he tied up? Not to belittle your friend's experience, but she untied him. In the scenario I made she does not but calls the cops. They are different.

sbmssvkitten,

Sorry about this conversation getting beyond your initial question. As you can see this stuff happens.

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(in reply to MzBerlin)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/26/2004 4:42:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: iwillserveu
Also, was he tied up? Not to belittle your friend's experience, but she untied him. In the scenario I made she does not but calls the cops. They are different.

You scenario still doesn't make any sense. I know you have chosen to ignore my messages as well. It’s alright :) I’m sure many others are interested in reading my response to you. But in case you do decide to read this one, I refer you back to post 41.

1) If a woman is in such a headspace that she fears saying "no", how do you think she will tie the man up. Some women in this thread have claimed to be like a deer in the headlight. Not in any position to tie someone up.

2) Lawrence's friend had no idea what she was in for until she untied the man. She was then assaulted when she let her guard down.

Women and men who get assaulted physically and sexually usually (but certainly not always) experience this when they have their guard down. That is not to say it is their fault. It is always the predator’s fault.

Instead of trying to come up with ready-made solutions of how women can get themselves out of rape situations, I'd take a step back and just try to be compassionate for those who have been through it.

- LA

<edited for a typo>

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 7/26/2004 4:44:02 PM >

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(in reply to iwillserveu)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/26/2004 5:56:18 PM

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Being fairly new to this site, I read many posts last night. A lot of these posts were about safety. The dom (I will not captilize that because in my mind he is an insult to true Doms) I had been speaking with, who I met on this site, today refuses to tell me his last name, send me a photo, or even tell me what to expect BUT instructs me to drive almost 4 hours to spend the weekend with him at my expense. When I asked if he would be offended if I asked for these things-he went into "It's my way or no way, honey", "that is an insult to me", etc...

Thanks to a bit of common sense, a situation a few years ago in which I was held hostage for two days, a VERY safety minded former Master, a few people I have had the honor to chat with from this site and, most of all to stories such as your's-I told him I was not interested. He was a complete jerk but by then I expected that. I am not writing to bad mouth him (well, not much)-maybe their are people out there who want to spend the weekend at their expense with a total stranger who will not send a photo, tell you their name or tell you what to expect. I just am not one of them. To have him tell me that makes me unsubmissive is such crap-I am submissive, I am not stupid.

I thank you for having the courage to tell your story. I thank the real Doms on these boards who seem to understand the true art of being a Master and I thank the jerk for showing his true colors before I drove that far...I am so sorry you had this experience.

I am sorry if I am offending anyone-please know that this is simply my opinion on the subject and I felt the need to thank you all for helping me see that I have made the right decision.

Warm regards,
maceyjade68

(in reply to sbmssvkitten)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/26/2004 6:27:31 PM

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Congratulations for making a responsible decision! If that was the norm, we'd have far fewer reasons to feel sorry for people, imnsho. Taking care of yourself is your responsibility, and you seem to be doing a fine job of that. :)

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(in reply to maceyjade68)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/27/2004 12:05:44 AM

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quote:

The system will traumatize you infinitely more than the rapist did.

One of my favorite sci-fi authors, Spider Robinson, came up with an idea about this which i have since espoused:

Dont charge him with rape - instead charge him with indecent exposure

the reasons for this are many:
1. It is much easier to get a conviction for indecent exposure than rape
2. The defense is NOT allowed to ask anything pertaining to your sexual history or how you were dressed at that time, limiting your public trauma
3. In most states, the penalty for indecent exposure is just as harsh as, if not harsher than, the penalty for rape
4. In prison, rapists are somewhat 'celebrities' ,along with the murderers - conversely, weenie waggers do harder time than anyone but the short eyes (child molesters), thereby almost guaranteeing that the weenie wagger will be repeatedly raped while in prison
5. What is the defendant going to do? Stand up in the courtroom and shout "She's lying your honor! I raped that bitch!!!"

Apply usual caveats here

< Message edited by Thanatosian -- 7/27/2004 12:07:27 AM >

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(in reply to MizSuz)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/27/2004 7:35:08 PM

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Ya know, I have a read a lot of stories of Callahan's Tavern and that idea sounds very Spider Robinson to me. I wish I'd known about it 20 years ago.

Live & Learn, eh?

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(in reply to Thanatosian)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/28/2004 10:43:30 AM

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quote:

Ya know, I have a read a lot of stories of Callahan's Tavern and that idea sounds very Spider Robinson to me. I wish I'd known about it 20 years ago.

Live & Learn, eh?

Is actually from his Lady Sally's books, the first one ( cant think of the title off top of head - not Lady Slings the Booze)

if you have not read them, I HIGHLY recommend them - any book set in a bordello is well worth reading, IMNTBHO

Apply usual caveats here

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RE: raped for being sub? - 7/28/2004 6:03:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian

Is actually from his Lady Sally's books, the first one ( cant think of the title off top of head - not Lady Slings the Booze)

if you have not read them, I HIGHLY recommend them - any book set in a bordello is well worth reading, IMNTBHO

Well now I"m going to have to go out and look for them. I've only read the Callahan stuff (really good, too).

Thanks for the direction...now if I can get sherri to order them off her crazy online club that snail mails books (and regularly have organized days of 'setting books free' in public places. If not I'll *gasp* buy them. ;)

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“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Thanatosian)

RE: raped for being sub? - 7/28/2004 9:36:41 PM

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Madame-

I just 'set free' 'Callahan's Key'- the latest Callahans/lady Sally/Jake Stonebender book by Robinson. Sigh- It might have been sitting on the windowsill at the Sage when you came down last.

Damn.

Setting 'em free is good-

Passing them on to soulmate is sooooo much better.

stay warm,
Lawrence

PS- as excited as I am about seeing Bailey this weekend-

seeing you out in the scene is really a great thing too.

Miss you, Bella-
L

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RE: raped for being sub? - 7/29/2004 3:36:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Madame-

I just 'set free' 'Callahan's Key'- the latest Callahans/lady Sally/Jake Stonebender book by Robinson. Sigh- It might have been sitting on the windowsill at the Sage when you came down last.

Damn.

Setting 'em free is good-

Passing them on to soulmate is sooooo much better.

<smile> That copy must belong to someone else!

quote:

PS- as excited as I am about seeing Bailey this weekend-

seeing you out in the scene is really a great thing too.

I'm jazzed about it too! I'm psyched to meet Bailey and all the other folks. This should be a ton of fun!

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to topcat)

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