Bush Is A Saint

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Ozzfan1317 -> Bush Is A Saint (5/31/2008 11:46:02 PM)
I thought this was pretty funny. I didnt write it I found it on another mesage board..lol. Sadly it is pretty accurate. President George W. Bush was scheduled to visit the Episcopal Church outside Washington as part of his campaign to restore his pathetic poll standings. His image handler made a visit to the Bishop and said, 'We've been getting a lot of bad publicity because of the president's position on stem cell research, the Iraq war, hurricane Katrina, and the Veterans Administration. We'll make a $100,000 contribution to your church if during your sermon you will say that the President is a saint.' The Bishop thought it over for a few moments and finally said, 'The Church is desperate for funding - I'll do it.' Bush showed up for the sermon, and the Bishop began: 'I'd like to speak to you all this morning about our President who is a liar, a cheat, and a low-intelligence numb-nuts who can't put a compound sentence together. He bugged out of combat service during the Vietnam war and went AWOL to avoid a drug test, then had all reports on the sordid event destroyed. He is the spawn of a Nazi loving great grandfather who smuggled anti-Americans into this country on his shipping line. He took the tragedy of September 11 and used it to frighten and manipulate the American people. He lied about weapons of mass destruction and invaded Iraq for oil and money, causing the deaths of tens of thousands and making the United States the most hated country on earth. It is a six-trillion dollar folly. He appointed fund-raiser cronies to positions of power and influence, leading to widespread death and destruction due to government paralysis after Hurricane Katrina. He awarded no-bid cost-plus contracts and tax cuts to his rich friends so that we now have more poverty in this country and a greater gap between rich and poor than we've had since the Depression. He has headed the most corrupt, bribe-inducing political party since Teapot Dome. The national surplus has turned into a staggering national debt of 11 trillion Dollars. Oil rose from $18 to over $120 per barrel, leading to transportation costs which the people of America cannot afford, with low minimum wages, part time jobs, no health insurance, and outsourcing. Vital research into global warming and stem cells is stifled because he's afraid to lose votes from religious kooks. He is the worst example of a true Christian I've ever known, but compared to Dick Cheney... George W. Bush is a saint.

Irishknight -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 6:30:57 AM)
YAWN

DomAviator -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 11:45:19 AM)
Want to hear what Clinton did? Didnt think so.... As for people who cant afford gas and earn minimum wage- fuck them, its not my fault that they opted to live a Beavis and Butthead life. I never earned minimum wage in my life - not even when I was 15! Never had a "part time job with no health insurance" either - because if I couldnt find a job that I liked / wanted then I made my own. Fortune favors the brave, people who whine and wait for higher minimum wages will die broke, on medicaid, with a block of govt cheese and a can of catfood in their fridge. People who create opportunity for themselves will suceed handsomely... I have NO problem filling the tank on any of my vehicles, all of which have V-8's..... Bush's ecomony is great, for those who are willing to make something of it.

MissSepphora1 -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 12:01:13 PM)
Here is an interesting start, if anyone wants to say Bill Clinton was a great president... http://www.etherzone.com/body.html

DomKen -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 2:24:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1 Here is an interesting start, if anyone wants to say Bill Clinton was a great president... http://www.etherzone.com/body.html Got one shred of legally admissable evidence linking either Clinton to any of these deaths? I think it does sort of pale in comparison to the 4000+ US citizens whose deaths GWB is directly responsible for and the 100,000 odd people he is directly responsible for killing.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 2:27:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1 Here is an interesting start, if anyone wants to say Bill Clinton was a great president... http://www.etherzone.com/body.html Got one shred of legally admissable evidence linking either Clinton to any of these deaths? I think it does sort of pale in comparison to the 4000+ US citizens whose deaths GWB is directly responsible for and the 100,000 odd people he is directly responsible for killing. I was going to comment, and then I saw this... since I wanted to say the same thing, Ill just quote it instead :P

Alumbrado -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 2:33:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1 Here is an interesting start, if anyone wants to say Bill Clinton was a great president... http://www.etherzone.com/body.html Got one shred of legally admissable evidence linking either Clinton to any of these deaths? I think it does sort of pale in comparison to the 4000+ US citizens whose deaths GWB is directly responsible for and the 100,000 odd people he is directly responsible for killing. http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp Wouldn't having a shred of legally admissable evidence against either Bush or Clinton and concealing it make one guilty of misprision of a felony?

chickpea -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 2:44:55 PM)
[sm=biggrin.gif]OP great post, which church is this? i want to join it so they can automatically attribute all of what the pastors says to me and it'll save my fingers and few strokes on the keys. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Want to hear what Clinton did? Didnt think so.... As for people who cant afford gas and earn minimum wage- fuck them, its not my fault that they opted to live a Beavis and Butthead life. I never earned minimum wage in my life - not even when I was 15! Never had a "part time job with no health insurance" either - because if I couldnt find a job that I liked / wanted then I made my own. Fortune favors the brave, people who whine and wait for higher minimum wages will die broke, on medicaid, with a block of govt cheese and a can of catfood in their fridge. People who create opportunity for themselves will suceed handsomely... I have NO problem filling the tank on any of my vehicles, all of which have V-8's..... Bush's ecomony is great, for those who are willing to make something of it. Hey, not everyone grows up with priveledge and opportunity. So sometimes, in the land of opportunity, you need a helping hand to get out of a bad situation and get yourself on your feet. (just look at Donald Trump at his lowest point, he was able to get so many loans due to the celebrity of his name. Other people are less fortunate [or not as famous] and need a government that will have policies implemented to allow those that want to succeed to succeed, with a loan and whatever other things.) Of course, if you really want something badly enough anywhere on the planet (even if you're in the middle of the African dessert and only have feces-polluted water available to you for drinking), you can find a way to get it with tons and effort and persistance...more effort than a normal human does. If you want a government that cares about all the people and implements policies so that anyone from any background or circumstance will have the opportunity to succeed, then usually its America that makes opportunities to shoot to the moon available with the checks and balances system, a bigger proportion of people with values and ethics, etc.. and lack (well less than other countries) of corruption in the government. America is the land of opportunity for all (wherever you start from). And if the government starts to preach survival-of-the-fittest, and yet rewards or gives high appointments to his un-fit friends....well, he's just a George Bush Jr. cough who got it easy, and thinks everyone else who is in a worse situation than him and didn't have a daddy as President well "just isn't as strong as him" cough Can you say out of touch with most of the American people, and corrupt as hell? Counting the minutes til this ass gets out of office...

Alumbrado -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 2:54:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea Can you say out of touch with most of the American people, and corrupt as hell? Counting the minutes til this ass gets out of office... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM&feature=related

chickpea -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:06:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea Can you say out of touch with most of the American people, and corrupt as hell? Counting the minutes til this ass gets out of office... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ufa-q7DcWM&feature=related Man, that was the worst music video ever. ...Full of the MOST ANNOYING people EVER. But did kind of had a nice beat to it.

Aynne -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:07:58 PM)
DA, really. So if these people that are so sub par reach the ranks of the great and mighty pilot known as DA, then who is gonna pump your gas into your V-8's, wait on you and you buddies at the bar when you are out hustling girls, or give you those "happy ending " massages we know you love so much? Come on DA, do you know how many women are left high and dry when dead beat daddy skips out and the poor woman is left in poverty and has to work two crappy jobs to feed the kids? Yeah, didn't think so. Every single time I hire a new guy for me and within a month I get a notice from DHS that the bastard did NOT pay for the kids he created I want to kick his ass. Usually when I let him know that I have to attach his wages, he quits. Nice huh? So show a little compassion will you? There are a lot of people that came from broken homes, and disadvantaged childhoods, and they work hard to just eat DA. Insurance is a luxury to these people. I own my own business so I pay for my own insurance at a cost of about 400 bucks a month, you think a single mom can do that ? Doubt it. That is with a 5k deduc too. Compassionite Conservatism...nice. Keep on making your right wing cronies look like the asshats they are. Oh and yes tell me DA, what did Clinton do? Presided over an amazingly successful presidency and got a blow job and lied about it. Hmmm. big fucking deal? Let's talk Bush now shall we? How is that surge going for you? November cannot get here soon enough[8\|] quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Want to hear what Clinton did? Didnt think so.... As for people who cant afford gas and earn minimum wage- fuck them, its not my fault that they opted to live a Beavis and Butthead life. I never earned minimum wage in my life - not even when I was 15! Never had a "part time job with no health insurance" either - because if I couldnt find a job that I liked / wanted then I made my own. Fortune favors the brave, people who whine and wait for higher minimum wages will die broke, on medicaid, with a block of govt cheese and a can of catfood in their fridge. People who create opportunity for themselves will suceed handsomely... I have NO problem filling the tank on any of my vehicles, all of which have V-8's..... Bush's ecomony is great, for those who are willing to make something of it.

Alumbrado -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:09:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea Man, that was the worst music video ever. ...Full of the MOST ANNOYING people EVER. But did kind of had a nice beat to it. Stick around, the faces will change.[;)]

DomAviator -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:10:12 PM)
Chickpea, I see where youre coming from but I just dont buy it. I didnt grow up with privelage or opportunity. My dad was a US Navy Master Chief. In fact he was the master chief from hell - he wasnt addressed as "dad" he was "Master Chief". His idea of how to comfort an injured child was to tell me that "pain is your friend its your bodys way of telling you that you aint dead yet!" He taught me how to swim by throwing me off a dock and screaming "HOW BAD DO YOU WANNA LIVE PUSSY! TREAD THAT MOTHERFUCKING WATER!!!" He saw me being picked on when he picked me up from school and he made me get back out of the car to "beat that little motherfuckers face in, and if you lose them Im gonna kick your fucking ass!" No shit, he told me walk right up to the kid, and "punch him right in the snotbox then when you get him down kick his pussy face in"... Meanwhile HE kept the teachers from breaking it up, and thereafter my bully problem was solved. Growing up I hated him, but now that Im an adult I see he made me strong. I NEVER worked a minimum wage job in my life... I started out in construction as an assistant on a blasting crew drilling holes and eventually working with explosives. Ive done commercial diving / underwater welding. I put myself through the number 4 engineering college in the USA - in 3 years - while working on the midnight to eight shift as an EMT. I worked a summer on a wildland fire crew for the BLM. Ive never in my life done the McDonalds thing for minimum wage. When I graduated college, I joined the US Navy where Officer Candidate School was a breeze compared to growing up with my dad! Once I finished active duty in the Navy I went into the civilian world flight instructing and flying LearJets for an air ambulance company... Then I started my own business, after which I started another business. Nothing in my life was ever handed to me and I didnt get anything because the Govt "cared about me" or "was there to help me" I EARNED everything including the butter bars they put on my shoulders after OCS and the Gold Wings they pinned to my chest when I finished flight school and I paid for my six million bucks worth of flight training by putting my ass on the line over the skies of Iraq, then Somalia, then Iraq again... People dont need a helping hand, they need to cowboy up and to take charge of their lives and to do what it takes to make THEMSELVES a sucess. You dont need privelage or influence. If a person can come up with $20 to start they can grow a business and earn a handsome living in this country.... They just need to do it, even if it means learning some things along the way or doing some unpleasant tasks others may not want to do. The illegal alien who picks up my dog shit earns more than most americans because hes not afraid to work and to fill a need.

Ozzfan1317 -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:26:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea [sm=biggrin.gif]OP great post, which church is this? i want to join it so they can automatically attribute all of what the pastors says to me and it'll save my fingers and few strokes on the keys. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Want to hear what Clinton did? Didnt think so.... As for people who cant afford gas and earn minimum wage- fuck them, its not my fault that they opted to live a Beavis and Butthead life. I never earned minimum wage in my life - not even when I was 15! Never had a "part time job with no health insurance" either - because if I couldnt find a job that I liked / wanted then I made my own. Fortune favors the brave, people who whine and wait for higher minimum wages will die broke, on medicaid, with a block of govt cheese and a can of catfood in their fridge. People who create opportunity for themselves will suceed handsomely... I have NO problem filling the tank on any of my vehicles, all of which have V-8's..... Bush's ecomony is great, for those who are willing to make something of it. Hey, not everyone grows up with priveledge and opportunity. So sometimes, in the land of opportunity, you need a helping hand to get out of a bad situation and get yourself on your feet. (just look at Donald Trump at his lowest point, he was able to get so many loans due to the celebrity of his name. Other people are less fortunate [or not as famous] and need a government that will have policies implemented to allow those that want to succeed to succeed, with a loan and whatever other things.) Of course, if you really want something badly enough anywhere on the planet (even if you're in the middle of the African dessert and only have feces-polluted water available to you for drinking), you can find a way to get it with tons and effort and persistance...more effort than a normal human does. If you want a government that cares about all the people and implements policies so that anyone from any background or circumstance will have the opportunity to succeed, then usually its America that makes opportunities to shoot to the moon available with the checks and balances system, a bigger proportion of people with values and ethics, etc.. and lack (well less than other countries) of corruption in the government. America is the land of opportunity for all (wherever you start from). And if the government starts to preach survival-of-the-fittest, and yet rewards or gives high appointments to his un-fit friends....well, he's just a George Bush Jr. cough who got it easy, and thinks everyone else who is in a worse situation than him and didn't have a daddy as President well "just isn't as strong as him" cough Can you say out of touch with most of the American people, and corrupt as hell? Counting the minutes til this ass gets out of office... I agree I grew up below the Poverty Line served four years in the service and working on a degree. I hope when I hope there is enough money to finish because my family is too poor to help me with anything and our Economy is way worse than with Clinton and the debt is even bigger some of the programs that Clinton created would have really helped me get a start in life so Hopefully God willing I finish school and manage to escape the situation I was born into. Some People are born upper middle class or wealthy and they don't realize how hard it is to make it if your completely on your own. This is the reality of electing a man whos Family is a group of Oil Tycoons like they really give a shit about the poor. You already know the answer I'm voting Obama in November and praying hes atleast mildy less corrupt than what we have had.

Alumbrado -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:29:41 PM)
Less would be better.

Ozzfan1317 -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:36:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ozzfan1317 quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea [sm=biggrin.gif]OP great post, which church is this? i want to join it so they can automatically attribute all of what the pastors says to me and it'll save my fingers and few strokes on the keys. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Want to hear what Clinton did? Didnt think so.... As for people who cant afford gas and earn minimum wage- fuck them, its not my fault that they opted to live a Beavis and Butthead life. I never earned minimum wage in my life - not even when I was 15! Never had a "part time job with no health insurance" either - because if I couldnt find a job that I liked / wanted then I made my own. Fortune favors the brave, people who whine and wait for higher minimum wages will die broke, on medicaid, with a block of govt cheese and a can of catfood in their fridge. People who create opportunity for themselves will suceed handsomely... I have NO problem filling the tank on any of my vehicles, all of which have V-8's..... Bush's ecomony is great, for those who are willing to make something of it. Hey, not everyone grows up with priveledge and opportunity. So sometimes, in the land of opportunity, you need a helping hand to get out of a bad situation and get yourself on your feet. (just look at Donald Trump at his lowest point, he was able to get so many loans due to the celebrity of his name. Other people are less fortunate [or not as famous] and need a government that will have policies implemented to allow those that want to succeed to succeed, with a loan and whatever other things.) Of course, if you really want something badly enough anywhere on the planet (even if you're in the middle of the African dessert and only have feces-polluted water available to you for drinking), you can find a way to get it with tons and effort and persistance...more effort than a normal human does. If you want a government that cares about all the people and implements policies so that anyone from any background or circumstance will have the opportunity to succeed, then usually its America that makes opportunities to shoot to the moon available with the checks and balances system, a bigger proportion of people with values and ethics, etc.. and lack (well less than other countries) of corruption in the government. America is the land of opportunity for all (wherever you start from). And if the government starts to preach survival-of-the-fittest, and yet rewards or gives high appointments to his un-fit friends....well, he's just a George Bush Jr. cough who got it easy, and thinks everyone else who is in a worse situation than him and didn't have a daddy as President well "just isn't as strong as him" cough Can you say out of touch with most of the American people, and corrupt as hell? Counting the minutes til this ass gets out of office... I agree I grew up below the Poverty Line served four years in the service and working on a degree. I hope when I hope there is enough money to finish because my family is too poor to help me with anything and our Economy is way worse than with Clinton and the debt is even bigger some of the programs that Clinton created would have really helped me get a start in life so Hopefully God willing I finish school and manage to escape the situation I was born into. Some People are born upper middle class or wealthy and they don't realize how hard it is to make it if your completely on your own. This is the reality of electing a man whos Family is a group of Oil Tycoons like they really give a shit about the poor. You already know the answer I'm voting Obama in November and praying hes atleast mildy less corrupt than what we have had. I actually Commend you for making a career of the service I never was a fan of politics and Drama myself. I don't expect someone to just pay my bills while I do nothing with my life it makes me sick watching the Bums that feed off the government. They take money from people whoare suffocating into bankruptcy in a failing Job Market. Where I live if you dont spend your life in the Military its either the Retail Stores Or the Factory for most of us. Thats the reality of it. Most people cant afford 40,000 for college and most careers dont care if you dont have a degree or a certain amount of experience. I am going to make something of my life because I refuse to be like everyone else here and just spend my life in the factory at 10 dollars an hour or working some minimum Wage job.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:48:26 PM)
I've worked as a computer tech since I was 15, unnoficialy at first, then doing tech support at 18... there were few interupptions (when I went to the army-until I re-shattered my knee and got sent home, a few months in Montana where tech support doesnt exist) I grew up in one of the deepest darkest holes in Las Vegas, currently (at 21) I make enough now to fully support myself, my fiance and my UM, without anyone else having to work. We live in a good neighborhood, and always have food to eat... this is possible because I was willing to work for it, and I planned ahead, in 5 years, Ill own my own house, free and clear, and be making more that most people in thier late 20s think about... because I work my ass off every day to make it possible... I know that there are a lot of people with really good reasons that they cant do similar things, but for the life of me I cant seem to find them here... Everyone keeps saying how there arent any jobs, yet in Utah alone I know of 15 different businesses offering entry-level jobs, just off of the top of my head, the problem is that too many people arent willing to work those jobs, because living off of the taxpayers is more convenient

DomAviator -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:52:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ozzfan1317 I actually Commend you for making a career of the service I never was a fan of politics and Drama myself. I don't expect someone to just pay my bills while I do nothing with my life it makes me sick watching the Bums that feed off the government. They take money from people whoare suffocating into bankruptcy in a failing Job Market. Where I live if you dont spend your life in the Military its either the Retail Stores Or the Factory for most of us. Thats the reality of it. Most people cant afford 40,000 for college and most careers dont care if you dont have a degree or a certain amount of experience. I am going to make something of my life because I refuse to be like everyone else here and just spend my life in the factory at 10 dollars an hour or working some minimum Wage job. Ozz, Im not here to preach to you or to lecture you but see the problem I am seeing here is that you are concerned about "the job market". Who wants a job???? Do you know what "job" means - JUST ABOVE BROKE. You will never be truly sucessful working for someone else... Thats reality. My lawyer tells a funny, but true story. A certain wealthy lawyer here in Houston who I shall not name has an extensive art collection - including a work from one of the old masters valued at over $500,000. At his daughters engagement party a young associate from the firm was admiring the piece of art and the lawyer came and put his arm around his shoulder and in a very fatherly tone said "pretty nice isnt it? Ya know if you work hard, put in 80 - 100 billable hours a week at the firm, give 150% effort etc... In a few years....... I COULD HAVE ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE HANGING THERE!" There is a message to be taken from that - fuck a job, you want one like you want an asshole in the middle of your forehead! Jobholders make people called "employers" rich... Opportunity is where you find it... If you cant find the job you want / need then make your own job! Even if it means doing something unpleasant until you grow it to the point where you can make someone else do it for you... I have said this before numerous times and it is always unpopular but the illegal alien who picks up the dogshit in my yard for $5 a week is making more than double the US national average. He has like 6 customers on my block all of whom pay $5 or more (Its $5 for the first dog $2 per addl dog so some customers are $7 or $9) It takes him FIVE MINUTES. In a half hour he is off my block with at least $30 cash in his pocket. Then he walks to the next block to service his accounts there and so forth. Figure hes got to be netting $45 an hour servicing 9 accounts... Thats $90,000 a year picking up dogshit. He sees a need, he fills it, and he isnt afraid to do the work others dont want to do. Opportunity is where you find it... if you cant find it MAKE IT. Dont expect the govt to give it to you. Whats the start up costs on that business? A box of latex gloves and some trash bags??? There are a million things I pay to have done just cause I dont want to, and those people make a nice living off me...

DomAviator -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 3:58:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr I've worked as a computer tech since I was 15, unnoficialy at first, then doing tech support at 18... there were few interupptions (when I went to the army-until I re-shattered my knee and got sent home, a few months in Montana where tech support doesnt exist) I grew up in one of the deepest darkest holes in Las Vegas, currently (at 21) I make enough now to fully support myself, my fiance and my UM, without anyone else having to work. We live in a good neighborhood, and always have food to eat... this is possible because I was willing to work for it, and I planned ahead, in 5 years, Ill own my own house, free and clear, and be making more that most people in thier late 20s think about... because I work my ass off every day to make it possible... I know that there are a lot of people with really good reasons that they cant do similar things, but for the life of me I cant seem to find them here... Everyone keeps saying how there arent any jobs, yet in Utah alone I know of 15 different businesses offering entry-level jobs, just off of the top of my head, the problem is that too many people arent willing to work those jobs, because living off of the taxpayers is more convenient Asher, exactly... and since those bitching here obviously have computers lets take some examples from your line of work. How about if they get off this forum and instead go to the library and pick up some books on HTML, PHP, etc and learn how to do web sites. Sure the first attempts will suck but eventually they will get good - as for geting clients - do some free sites for non profits they believe in . Web development is a great way to earn $500 - $10,000 a client. Or they can pick up the study guides for MSCE and do networking for $50 an hour on small business accounts, or get an A+ study guide and do hardware, upgrades, etc.... I commend your entrepreneurship at age 15...

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Bush Is A Saint (6/1/2008 4:01:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr I've worked as a computer tech since I was 15, unnoficialy at first, then doing tech support at 18... there were few interupptions (when I went to the army-until I re-shattered my knee and got sent home, a few months in Montana where tech support doesnt exist) I grew up in one of the deepest darkest holes in Las Vegas, currently (at 21) I make enough now to fully support myself, my fiance and my UM, without anyone else having to work. We live in a good neighborhood, and always have food to eat... this is possible because I was willing to work for it, and I planned ahead, in 5 years, Ill own my own house, free and clear, and be making more that most people in thier late 20s think about... because I work my ass off every day to make it possible... I know that there are a lot of people with really good reasons that they cant do similar things, but for the life of me I cant seem to find them here... Everyone keeps saying how there arent any jobs, yet in Utah alone I know of 15 different businesses offering entry-level jobs, just off of the top of my head, the problem is that too many people arent willing to work those jobs, because living off of the taxpayers is more convenient Asher, exactly... and since those bitching here obviously have computers lets take some examples from your line of work. How about if they get off this forum and instead go to the library and pick up some books on HTML, PHP, etc and learn how to do web sites. Sure the first attempts will suck but eventually they will get good - as for geting clients - do some free sites for non profits they believe in . Web development is a great way to earn $500 - $10,000 a client. Or they can pick up the study guides for MSCE and do networking for $50 an hour on small business accounts, or get an A+ study guide and do hardware, upgrades, etc.... I commend your entrepreneurship at age 15... when I got my first job all I knew how to do was delete my web history so my ma wouldnt know I was looking at porn... I made 100 a week, under the table, to keep some systems running for a small business. In this town an A+ is worth about 13/hour, an A+ and Net+ together are worth just over 30k a year... it takes a week to get both... Every time I see hear someone hereabouts bitching about having to work at subway or some such, I say the same thing... go do tech support... most places will hire anyone over 18 with a pulse, and train you in all you need to know

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