Should S&M be in the DSM?

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Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/1/2008 5:51:21 AM

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In connection with this article about revising the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - What's 'normal' sex? Shrinks seek definition - MSNBC is conducting this poll: Should S&M be in the DSM?

I thought both the article and the poll might be of interest to some.

Vice

RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/1/2008 6:33:24 AM

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'In the DSM' is misleading. Food is 'in the DSM', but that doesn't make it a mental illness until other factors are present. Same with sex and variations.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/1/2008 1:35:11 PM

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I'm in the army and i got a referral to see the shrink because i like pain. the shrink was fixated on the sex aspect and simply couldn't or wouldn't see it as a normal parameter. if the doctor was trained in Europe it would be a different matter as BDSM is accepted in the mainstream of their society. so the question and the questioner need to be part of the equation as well. as far as being in the DSM i say no as it is not a disorder needing to be fixed but a different way of experiencing life.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/2/2008 6:19:57 AM

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S&M is not in the DSM IV or it's revisions.

Sexual sadism and sexual masochism are and there are very specific criteria that must be met including things such as the desires lead you to commit crimes (like robbery, rape, etc), do harm to yourself or others, and cause distress in your life.

Any so called professional who doesn't understand those criteria is hardly a professional.

You don't special training. None of my therapist had special training about BDSM but they never doubted that I did not meet either of those criteria and in fact have all encouraged me in my Ds dynamics because they see it as empowering to me and to my slave whom they met privately and with me.

A good therapist isn't looking for your problems or to solve your problems. A good therapist helps you learn how to take care of yourself in the best way possible.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/13/2008 3:50:12 AM

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that would kind of throw the "sane" part of SSC right out now wouldnt it? :P

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/17/2008 8:22:24 PM

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You have GOT to be kidding me! SM a mental disorder??? Honestly I think it HELPS my mental disorders, pain releases endorphenes in the body that creates "happiness" It helps depression, suicidal tendancys, and addictions of all kinds.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/18/2008 4:50:26 AM

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well thats a bunch of crap. My "disorder" has helped me quit addictions, become a stronger person, and has helped me come closer to realizeing my full potential as a human being.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/18/2008 5:23:03 AM

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Wasnt S&M taken out??? why are they thinking of putting it back in??? How reliable is it if they faff around on removing and inserting stuff willy nilly
Lucy

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/18/2008 7:35:00 AM

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Here's a list of DSM-IV entries - http://allpsych.com/disorders/disorders_categories.html - which includes sexual sadism and sexual masochism, among others. I'll leave it to others like TammyJo to explain how therapists interpret and apply the DSM-IV as it pertains to bdsm.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/18/2008 7:43:07 AM

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Is this National Don't Bother To Read Week or something?

It applies if you maim or kill people, torture them without consent, or cannot function on your own because of it.

Again, food disorders are in the DSM, but that has nothing to do with going shopping for groceries.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/18/2008 7:47:17 AM

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Some things do not changes. SM is already a part of BDSM. There are different phases of it, but all and all, it is a generalized term.
For the press to get involved only tells me that they are trying to avoid the world crisis we are in now and meddle in something that does not concern them.

Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/18/2008 9:30:19 PM

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The terms/behaviors of 'sadism' and 'masocism' cover a lot of ground. There's a difference between having a kink for single tails and a kink for snuff films or amputation.

There is no doubt that many factors, other than developing scientific knowledge, influences what is classified as a 'mental disease or disorder' in the DSM IV, just as it always has.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/19/2008 5:44:39 AM

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Regular ol' BDSM used to be defined as a mental/sexual disorder. But, thanks to a concerted effort of the leather community in the mid-1990's that definition was dropped. This sort of thing happens all the time, there was also a time when being gay was considered a mental disorder too. As they learn more, the book changes, and they stop destroying innocent people's lives.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/23/2008 10:47:58 AM

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My vote would be yes it should be in the DSM. Perhaps I may need it one day to defend myself in a court of law. hmmm... maybe i could claim not guilty by means of insanity, SM, because making sure I wasn't late to meet my Master for a wonderful flogging got in the way of my ability to understand the consequences of driving 80mph in a 60mph zone.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/23/2008 2:52:07 PM

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It already is.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/23/2008 4:35:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Is this National Don't Bother To Read Week or something?

It applies if you maim or kill people, torture them without consent, or cannot function on your own because of it.

Again, food disorders are in the DSM, but that has nothing to do with going shopping for groceries.

Probably they do know the difrence between sexual sadism and BDSM. They are just ignoreing the difrence in order to scream 'they are trying to make BDSM a mental disorder, run for the hills everyone! Kink as we know it is about to be destroyed by those evil fundementalists'.

To compare with what you said abotu eating disorders. Aneorixia never gets confused with being on a diet, because there are no dieters out there who have a persectution complex that are sceaming 'the DSM lists being on a diet as e mental disorder. Us dieterts are so oppressed'

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/28/2008 1:16:34 PM

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This is a great question that reminds me of one that I wrestle with. I began my journey with BDSM with the belief that nothing is morally wrong or destructive to the person as long as all parties mutually consent to the behavior. In general this is true when it comes to sex. I have decided though that there is a point where BDSM sex can be destructive to ones mind, body, and soul even if both parties agree to the act and even enjoy the act. Let me give you and example.

My father is a psychologist. Him and several of the other shrinks were wrestling with an issue. An out of state doctor had asked for their opinion on how to treat a patient with the following case. Two individuals met each other online the girl desired nothing more than to be consumed by her master. This master wanted to literally eat his submissive. They were both willing participants and they both got off sexually on this arrangement. Over the course of a few months the girl cut off pieces of her own body starting with fingers. She would take pictures and mail her master these as well. Her Dom would cook her body parts and eat them. He probably sent her pictures of this as well. The arrangement was that after a certain period of time of his consuming her body she would commit suicide and he would eat her corpse. She amputated several fingers and possibly other body parts, but the pair was stopped by another party before she died. As I said they are both mutually agreeing and very sexually aroused by this. Both mutually agreeing and sexually aroused would have normally fit my description of a healthy sexual relationship that others should keep their nose out of; however this it seems obvious to me that the amputation, canabalism, and murder/suicide in this Dominant / submissive relationship crossed some sort of line to do with health, morality, and sanity. These people needed help. They were also into BDSM. So their is a line where BDSM is not healthy, but where is the line.

Of note in Hugh Heffner's biography he states that anything sexual is O.K. as long as everyone is a consenting adult and does not commit the act out with hate in their heart. His definition does not rule out BDSM, but it does rule out acts of BDSM done out of hatred. You could argue that it rules out the act between these two as well, but then we don't really know if this submissive amputated herself out of hatred for herself or if the Dom wanted her to because of hatred for her / women / humans / etc. Then again when I am angry it sure makes me feel better to take it out on a sexy bottom, and it does not feel unhealthy.

Some people's answers to when does BDSM belong in the DSM post have helped me to clarify where the line is between healthy and unhealthy BDSM behavior.

I have decided I will post this slightly different question as its own thread. If interested you will find it out there on the message boards.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 6/28/2008 1:38:43 PM

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Quick Reply

BDSM, D/s etc is not in the DSM-IV nor should it be. There are people I know who enjoy eating vegetarian foods but that isn't in the DMS-IV either.

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 8/18/2008 3:36:11 PM

MistressOriette

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SM is in the DSM-IV-TR refer to page572, 302.83 sexual masochism then on page 573, 302.84 sexual sadism. Both are considered sexual dysfunctions, but not mental disorder.......not yet at least. I am sadist and work in the mental health field......go figure.....lol . Mistress Oriette

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RE: Should S&M be in the DSM? - 8/18/2008 4:42:59 PM

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http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/sexsadismTR.htm

Actually it is listed as a paraphilia, which is considered a disorder, but only (as already repeatedly pointed out) if:

The person has acted on these urges with a nonconsenting person, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

(in reply to MistressOriette)

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