Collarchat.com

Join Our Community
Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 10:38:25 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
Wrong...
Polls show he's losing white voters by the droves. McCain is actually winning the elctoral college against Obama if the election was today.


Polls ... you are kidding, right?
 
I would trust, cutting a deck of cards to determine the outcome, before I would put any stock in polls ... the primary purpose of which is to keep people interested in watching election coverage.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 10:42:25 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

Wright thinks the government invented HIV purposely to kill off minorities. And you believe he is right?

I suppose you also believe the nuts down in New Orleans that think the government blew up the leevees on purpose.



Wright said, as did I, that the government deliberately infected black people in the Tuskegee Experiment...I've asked you or anyone else repeatedly to prove the assertion that Wright was incorrect about that happening, and you keep changing the subject to HIV.

If you haven't been able in all this time to come up with something to prove Wright wrong on what he actually said, instead of making up things he didn't say, you have less credibility than he does.

Buh bye.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/1/2008 10:53:51 PM >

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 10:50:38 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
The government did not infect black men with syphilis. They took in men who already were infected and under the guise of free health care, did nothing but observe the progression of the disease in these men. They wanted to prove their theory that syphilis affected black men differently than white men.
It was still quite a heinous act, but the facts are the facts.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 10:55:15 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
You need to see this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6lQyTu9mjE

He bases his HIV theory on the Tuskegee experiment. He stated that if the government is willing to do that, then he believes the government is capable of creating the HIV virus to infect minorities.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 10:55:39 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chickpea


JFK showed that we wouldn't passively stand by while Soviets moved missles to Cuba.  Whether this was the biggest threat or not, is besides the point that if someone does that in front of the entire world to see, then the U.S. would appear weak if didn't do anything.  A sign of weakness, is a big welcome mat for other countries to try strikes at the U.S.  My dad served aboard one of the aircraft carrier near Cuba during the missle crisis, and told me a first hand account of the tension at that time.  Basically there was a big threat of nuclear war anyways, everywhere, and communists were sought out in a witch hunt manner.



Chickpea, I understand what you are saying but from a military standpoint the logic is flawed. First of all, WE had nuclear missles in Western Europe on Russias doorstep so why wouldnt they put some in Cuba? However what Kennedy did made things worse instead of better by getting them off the fixed land based launchers and into subs 3 miles off our coast.  It is analogous to dealing with the threat posed by the sex offender living down the block by moving them into your home where they can play hide and seek under the beds, in the closet, in the cellar etc... Its not an improvement from a tactical standpoint...

(in reply to chickpea)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 11:01:23 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

You need to see this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6lQyTu9mjE

He bases his HIV theory on the Tuskegee experiment. He stated that if the government is willing to do that, then he believes the government is capable of creating the HIV virus to infect minorities.


That is what I've said over and over, and you have claimed otherwise. When he was asked if the government was capable of infecting black people with a disease, he pointed out quite correctly that they had already done it once.

You can pretend that he made up the Tuskegee Experiment all you want, that is simply not the truth. which is why you have run around in so many circles to avoid providing even a shred of evidence that Wright was making it up.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/1/2008 11:07:44 PM >

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 11:01:23 PM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Psssst...The US sent the first troops to Vietnam under Eisenhower.  The first troops to die in Vietnam were in the 50's.  Just for the record.  They were only listed as advisors, but they were combat casualties.

Prediction, Yes, Obama will probably take the nomination, Hillary will pledge her undying support but will torpedo him (if necessary) along the line to clear the way for her 2012 run.  it would be bad form for her to run against him as an encumbent.

i am still looking for something substantive to admire about Obama.  i am hoping for something that makes me like more about McCain.  Whoever gets elected is going to be a change from Mr. Bush. 
So all right, i am a proud member of the "s**thead contingent" that fears divisive comments from someone claiming to have a talent to unite people.  i am quite willing to look at the "content of a man's character, rather than the color of his skin." and i am unimpressed.


You might want to read up on the history of the Vietnamese people's long war for independence... a handful of advisors didn't start anything...politicians did...RFK's buddies, the Dulles brothers, and then LBJ with the Gulf of Tonkin hoax.

And do you have any of these 'divisive comments' that aren't spin jobs?


i have not commited any of his comments to memory, it is not necessary from my point of view.  There was a San Francisco comment that he made regarding voters clinging to guns and god.  That was, in my mind, spun to really make him look bad, but even if it was a comment regarding his discomfort or lack of understanding of some of us white home-loving americans it did not inspire my confidence in his capacity to bring people together.  i am a bit nervous about those he describes as his advisors, and equally as nervous at how quick he seems to be to dismiss them.  If you try to correct my misunderstandings, please do understand that spin in any direction is still spin.  What i want to hear is not why everyone else is wrong, but why is Obama a right choice.  So far, all i am looking at is the least unpalatable choice.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 11:04:05 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline
Cuban Missile Crisis was basically manufactured by the Soviets to get American nukes out of Turkey. You think Khrushchev was insane enough to start WW3? I dont. He wanted to see how far he can push the US into getting what he wants.

Just like when he constructed the Berlin Wall. Did you know he gave a secret order to the Red Army to NOT open fire if the Americans move to take down the wall?

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 11:06:07 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
And which one of the last several presidents has 'brought us all together? 
Obama seems certain to be more of the same, no matter how many times he says 'Change'. Doesn't mean that his opponent's desperate mudslinging is worth judging him by. 

Try Kleckley's index instead.

(in reply to atursvcMaam)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 11:25:36 PM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
     Mudslinging is going to happen.  How he is responding to it is what causes me the most concern.  He has turned his back on those he had referred to as his advisors (or is it spin that he upset Wright in this process)  that he has quit his church of 20 years (or is that spin also?)  Minimize the rest of any questionable reports.
     When he is faced, on the international front, to which America is often subject, to mudslinging or inconvenient situations, is he more likely to say "My country right or wrong" or will he turn his back?  Do i want to find out while he is at a negotiating table, or to decide now that this is not something i want to find out.  With his proposed agenda, i would prefer to have someone represent me who was much less inclined to back down.

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/1/2008 11:34:39 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

Cyberdude - relax Obama has zero chance of becoming president. Seriously, its a gimme to mccain... Obama has less chance of winning the general election than mickey mouse as a write in candidate. Various polls have him down by 300+ electoral votes. Add in all the redneck racists in the democratic party, the southerners who would  never elect a black man, the angry hillary supporters who feel disenfranchised, the republicans and those too smart to fall for Obamas "we need (mystery) change" rhetoric and he has not got a prayer of being elected.   


Aviator, you forgot the young people's vote!
And young people don't vote.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to DomAviator)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 3:12:53 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

That is what I've said over and over, and you have claimed otherwise. When he was asked if the government was capable of infecting black people with a disease, he pointed out quite correctly that they had already done it once.

You can pretend that he made up the Tuskegee Experiment all you want, that is simply not the truth. which is why you have run around in so many circles to avoid providing even a shred of evidence that Wright was making it up.

While the Tuskegee Experiment was a shameful episode of immorality, it's not accurate to suggest that the US Government deliberately infected 400 black men with syphilis.  Effective treatment was withheld, without their knowledge or consent, but the men involved contracted the disease entirely on their own.


_____________________________



(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 5:04:04 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

That is what I've said over and over, and you have claimed otherwise. When he was asked if the government was capable of infecting black people with a disease, he pointed out quite correctly that they had already done it once.

You can pretend that he made up the Tuskegee Experiment all you want, that is simply not the truth. which is why you have run around in so many circles to avoid providing even a shred of evidence that Wright was making it up.

While the Tuskegee Experiment was a shameful episode of immorality, it's not accurate to suggest that the US Government deliberately infected 400 black men with syphilis.  Effective treatment was withheld, without their knowledge or consent, but the men involved contracted the disease entirely on their own.



"By then, dozens of the men had died, and many wives and children had been infected."
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/jul/tuskegee/

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 5:24:43 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
Yes, Alumbrado, I am quite familiar with the details of the experiment.  Thank you for emphasizing that the disease was contracted by the participants in the usual way, and was spread by them in the usual way.

The immorality of the experiment was in the deliberate and duplicitous withholding of treatment.  No part of the Tuskegee protocols involved deliberate and systematic exposure of individuals to syphilis.

Perversely enough, there is ample proof the government is quite willing to do such things deliberately and systematically, without regard to race.  The nuclear detonations at Bimini Atoll in 1946, with the deliberate and systematic exposure of active duty naval personnel to the attendant radiation, is sufficient evidence of that.

Contrary to conspiracy myth, the government is indeed most egalitarian when it comes to unspeakable acts.




_____________________________



(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 6:08:27 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

In a rather complicated and confusing decision, the Democratic Natl Cmt has agreed to seat delegates from Michigan and Florida, but only give each a half vote.  According to the news story,  this puts Obama too far ahead of Clinton and the outcome is now a lock.
 
Excessively long link corrected.
 
Man i sure hope he wins.  But i really don't wanna debate the merits of the candidates; i just wonder if people agree Obama has it in the bag.


I'm not sure he has it "in the bag".

The Clinton strategy is to prove or show that she has a better chance at winning the general election that Obama has, against McCain.

So far, it appears that she has a valid position.

There are still sufficient Super-delegates to give her the nomination, and I think the fact that enough of them haven't committed to Obama, even at this late date might mean that many agree with her, but are "playing politics" with their vote (who'd a thunk? ).

The Clinton machine is nothing to sneeze at, and I think it likely Obama might be hurting himself by assuming anything about his position as the "apparent nominee".

I wouldn't even argue against the possibility of a number of Obama delegates and/or super-delegates having already agreed to switch to Clinton at the convention, if her figures against Obama in the general election continue to improve.  (Yeah, yeah, I know .... ever heard of a "faithless elector"?)

So ... no, I don't think it's safe to assume that Obama has the nomination tied up, just yet.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 6/2/2008 6:12:36 AM >


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to pinksugarsub)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 6:55:52 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
My uncles was one of the last surviving soldiers you see in those films of the nuclear tests from the 50s.  He had severe medical problems for the last 20 or 30 years of his life that the government paid for without question.  They will most definately experiment on any of us.

Hell, look at the "Gulf War Syndrome" that seems to be linked to soldiers who were given experimental and untested inocculations. 

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 10:07:36 AM   
pinksugarsub


Posts: 1224
Status: offline
Well since a lot of other P/pl have hijacked the thread, lemme add my 2 cents.
 
i think it's f**king hilarious that all the "rednecks" i've known who are Democrats now have to choose between a white woman and an African-American Man....lmao. 
 
Personally i can't decide who the hell i'd vote for; i'm an "anyone except Hillary" kinda gal, but man the alternatives are so sucky.
 
pinksugarsub

_____________________________





(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 10:10:47 AM   
atursvcMaam


Posts: 1195
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
Darn, and i was hoping to rely on the government to take care of my health care cradle to grave.  Now you're telling me they might experiment on me too?  Wow. They really have a heart and will take care of me and mine.  i may not be able to control all aspects, but where i am offered a choice, it will sometimes come down to who will do the least harm and is most in tune with my interests.  Learn from the past, but plan for the future. 

_____________________________

live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
The glass is always full, the question is, "with what?"

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 4:47:38 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

The government did not infect black men with syphilis. They took in men who already were infected and under the guise of free health care, did nothing but observe the progression of the disease in these men. They wanted to prove their theory that syphilis affected black men differently than white men.
It was still quite a heinous act, but the facts are the facts.


Unless of course you continue to cherry pick the facts to promote a false conclusion...



In the real world, this is what happened:

http://www.tuskegee.edu/Global/Story.asp?s=1207586
...These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness.
 
...Although the PHS touted the study as one of great scientific merit, from the outset its actual benefits were hazy. It took almost forty years before someone involved in the study took a hard and honest look at the end results, reporting that “nothing learned will prevent, find, or cure a single case of infectious syphilis or bring us closer to our basic mission of controlling venereal disease in the United States.”
 
By the end of the experiment, 28 of the men had died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis. How had these men been induced to endure a fatal disease in the name of science?
 
Even the Surgeon General of the United States participated in enticing the men to remain in the experiment, sending them certificates of appreciation after 25 years in the study
 
One of the most chilling aspects of the experiment was how zealously the PHS kept these men from receiving treatment. When several nationwide campaigns to eradicate venereal disease came to Macon County, the men were prevented from participating. Even when penicillin —the first real cure for syphilis— was discovered in the 1940s, the Tuskegee men were deliberately denied the medication.
During World War II, 250 of the men registered for the draft and were consequently ordered to get treatment for syphilis, only to have the PHS exempt them. Pleased at their success, the PHS representative announced: “So far, we are keeping the known positive patients from getting treatment.” The experiment continued in spite of the Henderson Act (1943), a public health law requiring testing and treatment for venereal disease, and in spite of the World Health Organization's Declaration of Helsinki (1964), which specified that “informed consent” was needed for experiments involving human beings.
 
The Legacy of Tuskegee
In 1990, a survey found that 10 percent of African Americans believed that the U.S. government created AIDS as a plot to exterminate blacks, and another 20 percent could not rule out the possibility that this might be true. As preposterous and paranoid as this may sound, at one time the Tuskegee experiment must have seemed equally farfetched.
Who could imagine the government, all the way up to the Surgeon General of the United States, deliberately allowing a group of its citizens to die from a terrible disease for the sake of an ill-conceived experiment? In light of this and many other shameful episodes in our history, African Americans' widespread mistrust of the government and white society in general should not be a surprise to anyone.
 
 
And apparently Reverend Wright was one of those not surprised....


Feel free to keep denying it all you want, facts are facts...and the real facts are those above, and they verify those cited by  Wright when he was asked if the US government were capable of deliberately infecting black people.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/2/2008 4:50:39 PM >

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? - 6/2/2008 4:53:10 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
I had never heard of this story - it's really shocking  . Has there been any effort to 'compensate' the victims? And how did doctors justify getting involved in such a blatant violation of the Hippocratic oath?

_____________________________



(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Does Obama have the Democratic Nomination? Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.098